Will we return to this life?

[Rick]

We are, by our very nature, problem solvers. Who's to say we won't continue to be and find answers that keep us moving forward?

Nature will ultimately decide in ways too horrific for many to acknowledge.

In what ways would that be? What brings you to that conclusion?

[JPGreco]

Ideas. Once an idea is brought upon the human conscious it is extremely difficult to eradicate. The wheel for example, once conceptualized and brought into common use can not be forgotten without the virtual eradication of all written and pictoral medium and the near simultaneous death of everyone old enough to have ever seen or heard of it. Knowledge has advanced so far that even in the most serious and long lasting disaster or collapse of civilization many of these ideas would remain SOMEWHERE and be brought back into use in relatively short order. Obviously many things would not be able to be recreated because of the advanced materials procurement technologys and precision manufacturing processes and if the collapse was long enough would indeed gradually fade from the human consciousness but again the circumstances that would bring this about would have to be dire beyond imagining.

I don't think most tech of today would be lost (other than the very high end stuff and things of little value after shtf). Mankind is incredibly resilient. Yes, many things would be recreated in short order just because even after a catastrophe, the survivors are still intelligent. As for the more complicated items, such as a computer, just think of all the junked computers that would be laying around. Our intuitive and curious nature would bring those things back (at least in the countries where it exists). Even with a complete collapse of civilization, people would group together in little communities, which may preserve all kinds of technology depending on where the settlement is and who survives in the aftermath. Also, people crave what they know. To get things like tv's and dvd players working again would be a HUGE comfort to people.
It would be very interesting to see what would survive in the aftermath. What kind of tech is preserved, what is tossed aside, and what is recreated quickly. This would be even more interesting in areas that have access to some sort of electricity (damns, rivers, solar, wind, etc) where they could harness it.

[Rick]

Folks continue to leave out greed, too. However you made money before you'll continue to do. Greed is the ultimate incentive for maintaining the status quo.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

We are, by our very nature, problem solvers. Who's to say we won't continue to be and find answers that keep us moving forward?



In what ways would that be? What brings you to that conclusion?

Search Oily Casandra on YouTube. She can explain it better than me.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I have taken a few steps back for the better.

[Winter]

Running water, indoor plumbing, global trade, textiles, metallurgy, philosophy, theater, professional sports, and music.


Yes, I'm talking about 360 BC.

Civilization and society are not modern. All it takes is corrupt government and a few barbarians to mess it up for everybody. It will come back, as it did in the 50's, and is declining again with a different group of corrupt governments and barbarians.

[Rick]

Search Oily Casandra on YouTube. She can explain it better than me.p

Okay. that was pretty funny. You started my day off with good chuckle. Nothing like taking advice from a tree hugging stripper. I do understand why you watch her though. (raising eyebrows)

[Tall49er]

I agree absolutely with what you say- we are lucky, in many ways to live in the time that we do, and there is no way back. However, as a European (Englishman) I am filled with a deep shame of what was done in the 'opening up' of the North American continent- by people who were only a generation or so from their European roots. 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee' just breaks your heart. I always dip into it when watching old westerns- there is usually a grain or more of real history in them. I am very concerned about the possible way forwards. Why is no-one talking about the population problem? Can't we all see how much better the world would be with a population at about one tenth of what it now is? The alternative is to wait for some uncontrolled events to do it for us.

[Rick]

Oh, we talk about it all the time. We've tried killing a few but then there's that whole manhunt thingie. It cuts down on my forum time. What's your solution on population? (We do talk about it though)

But seriously folks, look at any nation you want and you'll see similar atrocities. For the English they had to endure the Vikings then the Romans. Canada has the Inuit black mark, Australia the Aborigine black mark. If you are different than me then something needs to be done about you. Are you different than me?

[randyt]

Tiptoeing across sacred ground.

read the bible, there are stories there where entire tribes were ordered killed.

[Rick]

You're leaving prints in the sand. You know that, right?

[Tall49er]

Point taken about the poulation problem and frontier 'behaviour'. I cannot see the sense in demanding that people of today apologise for the mistakes of their forefathers- but we need to make each generation aware of the mistakes of the past. As for population- individuals talk about it but what politician or reputable newspaper dares to? I believe that we need to find incentives for small families, and that the time will come when the population issue will leave global warming far behind. It could be rectified slowly, over say two or three centuries, if we could only find an acceptable way. Maybe then we can emulate the Native North Americans and become guardians rather than despoilers.

[randyt]

You're leaving prints in the sand. You know that, right?

I know but the winds of time erases them.

[Rick]

Personally, I think the population problem will correct itself just like it does with every other animal. When times are good populations explode. Then competition for food begins to cull the herd. It's a terrible way to fix it but it will become self regulating at some point.

[Winter]

I believe that we need to find incentives for small families, and that the time will come when the population issue will leave global warming far behind. It could be rectified slowly, over say two or three centuries, if we could only find an acceptable way. Maybe then we can emulate the Native North Americans and become guardians rather than despoilers.

Global warming is a farce, it's the cycles of the earth. The coming ice age will take care of the population problem.

Where does this idea of Native Americans come from? The reason they only took what they needed is because they didn't have consumers to trade/sell to and they had no industry to produce items to trade/sell.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Global warming is a farce, it's the cycles of the earth. The coming ice age will take care of the population problem.

Where does this idea of Native Americans come from? The reason they only took what they needed is because they didn't have consumers to trade/sell to and they had no industry to produce items to trade/sell.

Localized economies is considered by many as a fundamental component of sustainability.

[randyt]

All this talk of overpopulation reminds me of a drawing I saw in a old mother earth news. It showed a couple dolphins in the sea looking at a huge mushroom cloud. At the bottom of the drawing it was written, "the meek shall inherit the earth". In my opinion it's only the matter of time.

[Rick]

Where does this idea of Native Americans come from? The reason they only took what they needed is because they didn't have consumers to trade/sell to and they had no industry to produce items to trade/sell.

Actually, they did. Where I grew up in Southern Illinois there was a trading settlement about 20 miles away. There is archeological evidence at the site that indigenous people came from the East Coast to trade items or at least the items were carried from the East Coast. The shells of ocean shellfish were found there. I don't remember the specifics but I seem to recall that they also found some items from the Southwest.

[BENESSE]

All this talk of overpopulation reminds me of a drawing I saw in a old mother earth news. It showed a couple dolphins in the sea looking at a huge mushroom cloud. At the bottom of the drawing it was written, "the meek shall inherit the earth". In my opinion it's only the matter of time.

We did an ad awhile ago for Air Jordans with Michael Jordan wearing them.
The headline said: The meek may inherit the earth, but they won't get the ball. There is some truth to that when you think about it. IMO, survival of the fittest on any level esp. human, is not for the meek.

[Bushman]

I don't know anything about balance or Native American rights...but, I wish there were some sort of nationwide Subsistence laws or something. So, that you could get a card and be eligible to harvest game and fish year round and live in a camp in the Nat'l Forest for longer than two weeks at one spot (away from parking lots/cars) so you could try to live a life in "balance" in the antiquated old school way- just to see if its really possible in this modern era

just 'do it'......... Brother !!

at various times over the past 45 years I've 'gone bush' for varying periods of time with the minimum amount of gear............a rifle, some ammo, a knife, firelighting gear, small fishing kit, and a small backpack with a hootchie half and a sleeping bag. Getting more 'extreme' I've gotten down to just the clothes on my back, rifle, ammo and knife. and gone 'huntin'..........

You can live off your body fat for 30 days.......without eating, you DO need water..... but all the rest you can 'learn as you go'.......When you really 'need' it, food 'turns up'.........its a 'gift' from the gods if you like? Deep down in everyone is that old 'ancient knowledge' that you only access in the quiet of the wilderness, by listening and quietly observing the trace of life as it moves around you, and through you ( if you let it in). After a week or three, your whole being will have 'slowed down', you don't walk as fast, you don't think as you once did. There is nothing but 'mother nature as-she-is'............in all her terror and glory, to stimulate your senses.

We've gotten so 'busy' and speedy living this modern life that we have no sense of an 'alternative'. The alternative is; 'just-do-it' !!

while you may well 'need' Permits & licences......... for hunting or camping or foraging, if you're well off the beaten track who in hell is going to 'know' or even care, exactly what it is you're doing?? The aborigines in Australia have certain 'hunting & gathering rights' on their 'traditional lands' that the rest of Australia does NOT have.

I work on the basis that we ALL have the 'right' to "food-warmth & shelter" wherever we are, and extrapolate from there. I've mostly been a 'subsistence hunter' and made meat only when I've needed it. (I did cull deer & rabbits for a living for a while many years back) and to my mind there is a vast difference between the feller who hunts for 'food' and the one who hunts for the 'trophy'. (Not that I have anything against trophy hunting, its just a whole different ball game)

I'm fortunate enough to have a few acres in the country and back onto a State Forest
where there is more than enough 'wild meat', both feathered and furred.

The 'balance' you ask about comes about when you have 'just enough' of whatever it is you seek........food,warmth, shelter...........and there is meat in the freezer and stuff growing in the garden, maybe a few chooks in the pen, the kitchen fire softly burning, and your mind is at rest.

Harry