Long Range Shooting, Part 1

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 01-14-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

Remind me to call before I come over.

I didn't hear that. What did you say?

**your_comforting_company** · 01-14-2011, 10:14 PM

That's some good stuff AS. It's going in my bookmarks so I can study it. I'm not a reloader and a lot of this information is extremely useful! Tried to give you some rep, but I gotta spread the love!

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 01-14-2011, 10:35 PM

I know it's kind of long but I figured it needed to be to put info in context. No one thing stands alone. It takes good ammo, a good rifle and a good shooter. Kind of like a 3 legged stool doesn't work to well with out all 3.

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 01-14-2011, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by hunter63

As most of my shooting is at game, or practicing for game.

I adhere to the min of paper plate rule, if I can hit a paper plate twice, off hand 100 yds, 2 shots, different positions, ie; sitting standing kneeling, prone etc.
Most all guns shoot better than I do.

I make no other claims, nor do I want want to chase game, so most shots are very deliberate, or not taken.

I do like bolt guns, flat shooters (for the reason AS gave).

Lots of good info there AS, but please hit "enter" once in a while please, so us old guys can follow and not lose our place.

I'll do that next time. It seems we have both come full circle and just stick to the basics now.

**klkak** · 01-15-2011, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist

I am. I've been shooting half a century and read a few books along the way and tried things I heard and listened to some people that were amazing shots. As for myself in the last couple of years my eyes are begining to fail me. I think it is from driving truck trying to focus my eyes in the darkness only to be hit with the bright lights of on coming traffic. I have had to make some adjustments. Scopes don't seem to help much because things are getting dark and scopes only make them darker. Now I concentrate on aquiring my target fast and more instinctive shooting at closer range. My eyes are causing me trouble on the job too and not sure how much longer I can continue to work. I was really looking forward to retirement and being put out to pasture a few years ago before I realized the world is falling apart. I can see now the only rest I'll ever get is when they plant me in the ground.

Was just curious. You make some very good points. Myself I practice on paper plates now as my eyes are getting a little worse for wear also.

**Rick** · 01-15-2011, 09:05 AM

Paper plates. Dang it. No wonder my wife got so mad.

**kyratshooter** · 01-15-2011, 11:26 AM

What are we defining as "long range"?

I am old school. I sight my rifles at 200 and consider anything over 100 as long range. I consider 300 yards my max range and anything more than that extreme long range. I will not take game shots past that estimated range. 400 yards is "out of range" in my book except under perfect conditions.

Tatical shots are different, No mercy and no worries about "clean kills". However, I have lain on the 1,000 range at Ft Benning. I know how difficult dopping wind, range and espically mirage is at that distance. I belong to one club that has a 500 yard range and I know how many shots are out of the 18" black at that distance, even with vetran shooters using quality gear.

The problem is that many people are acting as if 1,000 is the standard shot these days. Everyone either Has a 1,000 MOA gun or is looking for one. They actually believe that all they need is a plastic stock, a big scope and a cartridge as big as your index finger. Everything else will sort itself out. My guess is that most of these jokers are sitting in their Lazy Boys playing with their "scope knobs".

**Rick** · 01-15-2011, 01:36 PM

Just to clarify, if there a difference between boy scope knobs and girl scope knobs 'cause I don't want to make a mistake. And I'm not sitting in my Lazy boy either!

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 01-15-2011, 01:46 PM

I would define long long range as anything beyond maximum zero distance. Generally about 300 yards. After that more factors come into play. The only limit I set on the other end is how far the bullet will travel. I have read accounts of old battles where the old servive rifles with the sights set to 2000 meters would be used in volley fire. Some accounts had them raining down bullets on the enemy at distances over a mile and they never knew what hit them. The effect was similar to the modern cluster bomb so just being able to put it in the ball park had applications. One thing that becomes obvious when you start long range shooting is that it is hard to find areas to even see that far. You need some open ground. My personal opinion is that the practical application does not justify the expense although I did read a friends book called the Poor Mans Sniper that discussed many accurate old servive rifles and I had great success with them, in particular the Swedish Mauser and the Finnish M-39 that used the Mosin action that I fitted with the Russian 3.5 PU scope. In fact it was the best rifle I ever had at distance.

**SARKY** · 01-15-2011, 08:17 PM

BC, Ballistic Coefficient is also a very important factor in long distance shooting as a higher BC allows the bullet to slip through the air with less resistance and is less affected by cross winds. Given a bullet of the same weight but with a higher BC, it will travel flatter, further and retain more energy than the bullet with a lower BC. A very good example of this is the 6.5Grendel. When compared to a standard 147gr .308 the 123gr 6.5Grendel actually starts cathing up to the energy levels of the .308 (actually it sheds energy slower) and at 1000 meters retains more energy than the .308 it also has less wind drift.

**Beans** · 01-19-2011, 06:54 AM

Long range shooting?? I have shot some 1000 yd matches and have been asked how to dope the wind. The easist thing I can tell you it shoot when it is windy, You can read all the books you want but until you shoot with the wind doing funny things from the muzzle to the target it will be hard to understand what they are really saying.

Long range to one shooter may be 200 yards, to another it could be 400 yards or 600 yards ETC. Growing up In NE Missouri any shot over 100 yards was considered a long range shot because of the timbered area in which I hunted. In the USMC we were trained to shoot out to 500 yards with military gun and sights.

USMC qualification was

1st course of fire – 200 yards offhand or standing with 2 sighters and 10 shots for record. Single shot loading is utilized. Time allowed is 10 minutes.

2nd course of fire – 200 yard rapid fire sitting with 2 sighters 1. Time allowed is 60 seconds. Fired from the sitting position. There are a total of 10 rounds shot for record. Service Rifles are loaded with 2 rounds in the first magazine and require a magazine change with 8 rounds in the second magazine.

3rd course of fire – 300 yards rapid prone with 2 sighters and 10 shots for record . You are allowed 70 seconds . This course is shot from the prone position but the procedures are the same as in rapid sitting. standing position prior to the start of rapid fire. 10 rounds Slow fire was also fired from the kneeling position

4th course of fire – 500 yards slow fire prone with 2 sighters and 10 rounds for record. Time allowed is 10 minutes Scoring and shot location is done after each shot.

. "Across the course" matches were 200 yards, 300 yards and 600 yards, instead of 200 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards.

When I was hunting i liked to test my stalking skills more then my long range shooting skills.

**rwc1969** · 01-19-2011, 01:26 PM

This is an interseting subject, but I wonder how many here will ever use these skills and knowledge. I suppose if you lived in a wide open area they may apply to hunting, but what other useful fuction will they ever serve? Sniping people? Is there a shtf scenario where these skills could be applied?

**2dumb2kwit** · 01-19-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by rwc1969

This is an interseting subject, but I wonder how many here will ever use these skills and knowledge. I suppose if you lived in a wide open area they may apply to hunting, but what other useful fuction will they ever serve? Sniping people? Is there a shtf scenario where these skills could be applied?

You know...sometimes people do things just for the challenge and the enjoyment they get from it.

Besides....isn't it better to know something and not need it, than the other way around??? LOL

**kyratshooter** · 01-19-2011, 03:20 PM

Something that came to me a few months back, when I was working on the Mosin rebuild, was that there was one place in my geographic area where a long range rifle would be extremely important.

Living in KY I have very few places where I will get a 1,000 yard hunting shot.

I do however, have many places where I would have a shot of a mile or more up and down the interstate. It is one of the few places where I could see a threat approaching at long distance, ready a shooting platform and take a shot at extreme long range and be justified in my actions. An example might be a road rage incident during one of our 20 mile long traffic jams. Someone walking for vehicle to vehicle shooting innocent drivers.

Of course this is KY and after they hit the second car 50 pistols would be in their face!

I have done some revision to my truck gun battery.

**Rick** · 01-19-2011, 03:27 PM

Having a good truck battery is important. Sears Diehards are pretty good.

If I took a 1000 yard shot it would be through several dozen homes across the lake and through a few more homes. But that should get my point across I guess.

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 01-19-2011, 03:53 PM

The knowledge has increased my range and made me more accurate even at closer ranges. All and all what was gained was not worth the time effort or expense. Guns can be an addiction and I had it bad. When you get that way you never can be satisfied. You hear it all the time, "you can't have too many guns or too much ammo". It's a sickness. I had it and when I was caught up in had all the excuses any addict would have but now that I'm better I can't explain what drew me to them. Like all addicts I have to avoid gunstores and magazines and even talking about them because the graving to buy another gun will be with me the rest of my life. Face it, if you have more guns than you can carry you have it too to some degree. I wonder how far I could have gone in life if I had just bought a 30.06 and been done with it?

**klkak** · 01-19-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

I have done some revision to my truck gun battery.

My truck guns have evolved over the years. Now most often you will find my Win. 94 .44 mag and or my Browning BL-22 in the truck. Out side of the military I've not taken many shots over 300 yards and that was while target shooting. Most all of my hunting shot are less then 100 yards.