What can I make with deer?

[your_comforting_company]

The first picture is an excellent membraning job. That is better than I get most of mine. Great work!
Don't sweat those couple little hairs. They can be trimmed off later. Looks to me like you did a really good job with that too.
Most folks, like me have hard well water. The calcium can cause little spots, but it hasn't been a problem. With city water, the chlorine or salt (depending on how they purify) Also has some chemical properties that are able to react with the stuff in the bucket, but I don't have city water, so I can't say either way on that one. I have read about it, but not used city water.

You've done an excellent job so far. With a little research, and just "getting your hands dirty" I felt like it was a really intuitive process. Would you agree? I know it seemed a little daunting at first, but now that you're at the end of the process, what do you think? Easy for anybody to do?

Just remember to use the LAST pouring first and the first pouring last. You are well on your way to completing this project

@Rick, I tried using my drawknife back when I first tried this and the hammer + axe combo (or chisel or wrecking bar) worked better for me.

If you chip fresh bark and it changes colors quickly, i.e. turns brown or red, that is how you know you have good bark. The tannins, when exposed to open air, oxidize. If it stains your hands you know you have REALLY good bark.

Wish I could give you some more rep rwc, Thanks for posting these pics. Hopefully you'll inspire someone else to give this a try! You've done really great so far. Just make sure you get the schoolwork first!! Two thumbs up!!

[rwc1969]

I would agree that it is an intuitive process and skinning this recent deer was easier knowing how the skin and such is made up. I suppose I paid a little more attention to the details this time around because of this process.

Also, I think it is easy enough for anyone to do as long as they have a little patience, a place to work, and don't mind getting a little drty and putting out some physical effort. I really didn't get too dirty though and so far none of the smells have been terribly offensive as i had imagined.

and, eventhough I am trying to break it down to a science and cover all the bases it's not rocket science. The tut you provided should allow anyone wanting to do this to do it.

Interesting point on the bark oxidizing. I didn't notice that, but probably wasn't paying attention.

How do you feel about using that 4th pouring that wasn't boiled as a 1st bath? It has darkened up somewhat since I posted the pics of each pouring.

Also, where's that brain tan tut? I have brains and another skin now. I think I will freeze this skin and raw brains until spring though and go from there. Is that doable? This skin doesn't appear to need fleshing as all the visible meat and fat is still on the deer. It looked just like the one you posted in your skinning tut, that thin layer of meat was left on the deer and I even kept it from peeling around the neck region where I had trouble the last time.

Again man, thanks for all the help and tuts, you really do know your stuff. You'd be surprised what crazy stuff I read while searching for bark tan topics on the net, some good, some bad, and some was just out there. You could tell by reading some of the articles that the folks had likely never skinned a deer let alone done this, but were talking as if they were experts. It's refreshing to get first hand knowledge passed on in the way that you do it. It takes time to put it all together and I appreciate that very much.

[rwc1969]

Another great tut, RWC. Do you think a draw knife would make bark removal easier?

I don't recall ever using a draw knife, except maybe back in wood shop, but the outer bark is quite tough and takes a little work to get through and to me it would take great effort to simply draw the knife under the bark, it is held to the tree securely, at least on this oak, whick I believe is Red oak proper, not sure though, but it is in the Red oak family.

I initially tried using my machete as a makeshift drawknife and it seemed it took a pounding force to get the blade under and along the bark, it doesn't simply slice off.

That utility bar worked excellent really, I just don't like pounding steel on steel is all, especially in below freezing temps. I have a few vids I'm slowly getting together as this progresses and one shows the bark coming off in fast motion. It's pretty neat! Once you make your first cut in the bark it peels off pretty quick and the ut. bar has a tendency to stay under the bark and lift it away from the tree which helps greatly.

Honestly, it was much easier removing the layers from the tree than it was removing them from the deer and the two are very similar in construction on a basic level. I find this entire process fascinating. Eventhough there's a fair amount of physical work involved I find it very rewarding.

[your_comforting_company]

Ok.. I won't make you twist my arm. I'll work on a braintanning tute in my spare time. You can store a fleshed skin (if it doesn't need it, it's good to go) and brain in the freezer almost indefinately. I double bag 'em in grocery bags. I would apply the same rules to the skin as any meat.. 6 months to a year.. after that it'll probably get freezerburn, etc. Freezing till spring is totally doable, but try to time it so the temps are not higher than 70-75 degrees.
A word of warning... braintanning is a monster as far as labor is concerned, and it's HIGHLY ADDICTIVE.

The 4th pouring, I'd probably start off with, undiluted, then add the third pouring a week or so later and dilute it depending on how "thick" the liquor looks. Like I say, it's not a really specific method. I would think the 4th pouring would be thin enough to start without dilution. If there isn't enough liquor to cover the hide, add some of the third pouring. I don't think it'll be too strong. About like a cup of tea, and gradually increase to almost "soup", hard to see through.
(I think I answered all the questions lol)

There are a lot of different opinions on how and what, but really it all boils down to chemistry and a little common sense. It has been said, "There are as many recipes and methods for brain (or bark) tanning as there are tanners" and I find this to hold true. There are lots of folks out there who have tanned thousands of hides and do it for a living. Whether they understand the chemistry is debatable, but they always reach the same end.
If we end with the same product, using different methods, then it must not be the method, but the underlying sciences that take place behind the methods.

[Gilmore]

i have 3 deer carcasses from shotgun laying out in the back field.... better go see if those bones are clean yet! buzzards work good to clean em off the lazy way

[rwc1969]

Ok.. I won't make you twist my arm. I'll work on a braintanning tute in my spare time. You can store a fleshed skin (if it doesn't need it, it's good to go) and brain in the freezer almost indefinately. I double bag 'em in grocery bags. I would apply the same rules to the skin as any meat.. 6 months to a year.. after that it'll probably get freezerburn, etc. Done!

Freezing till spring is totally doable, but try to time it so the temps are not higher than 70-75 degrees. A word of warning... braintanning is a monster as far as labor is concerned, and it's HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. That's why I want to get all the info and equpment I need ready now so when the temps start getting above freezing I can get on it and have time set aside for the labor.

The 4th pouring, I'd probably start off with, undiluted, then add the third pouring a week or so later and dilute it depending on how "thick" the liquor looks. Like I say, it's not a really specific method. I would think the 4th pouring would be thin enough to start without dilution. If there isn't enough liquor to cover the hide, add some of the third pouring. I don't think it'll be too strong. About like a cup of tea, and gradually increase to almost "soup", hard to see through.
(I think I answered all the questions lol) Hey, I'm just gettin' started. I have an entire list, just trying to spring 'em on you slowly, LOL. JK!

There are a lot of different opinions on how and what, but really it all boils down to chemistry and a little common sense. It has been said, "There are as many recipes and methods for brain (or bark) tanning as there are tanners" and I find this to hold true. There are lots of folks out there who have tanned thousands of hides and do it for a living. Whether they understand the chemistry is debatable, but they always reach the same end.
If we end with the same product, using different methods, then it must not be the method, but the underlying sciences that take place behind the methods.

That's what I've noticed too while perusing this subject. Some swear by a certain method and condemn the next, but most seem to end with good results, so I suppose it's a preference or "what I'm used to" kinda thing. Wet scrape vs. dry scrape for instance, It seems most prefer one over the other and have strong reasons why they don't like the other method.

Anyway, I checked the skin again today and it had been moved once more. This time it was up over a log and the part exposed was frozen, hope that didn't effect it. I'm not sure what's getting a hold of it, but I moved it a little further down in an area that will hopefully get less traffic.

I'm not noticing a change in the texture of the skin as you described, but it ddidn't really have a distinct rubbery or swollen feel or look to start with. I'm considering just pulling it on Wednesday, squeegy it and start the tan.??

[rwc1969]

And for any who are interested I posted some vids of this process so far and some of the things I ran into along the way.

The process has pretty much been explained in YCCs tut and expanded by him even more in this thread so I won't describe each vid, it pretty self explanatory at this point.

Fleshing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RflPvyT-olM

Liming/ Bucking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTTumhFU2D0

De-hairing/ removing the membrane, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfY_PW51MNo

Harvesting and prepping the bark/ liquor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9-gKENRJ1k

At this point I'm just waiting for the hide to rinse and will then start the actual tanning process.

[your_comforting_company]

First of all, thank you for documenting these steps with video. It's something I've been wanting to do. A BIG two-thumbs up from me!
Also I'd like to say you've done fantastic with the hide so far. I really hope a critter doesn't get it.

You might not have noticed the change so much at the bucking phase because at first the skin was filled with gooey goodness, which has now been washed out. If the skin feels lighter and more stretchy it's ready to tan. I'd give it at least one more day, maybe two just depending on how it feels, and start the tan.
This being your first one the changes aren't so noticable, after this one though, you'll kinda know what to look for.

I got started on the BT tute last night, but I still gotta get pics of my setup and tools and get it organized. I'll try to get the tools soon so you can get your stuff together.

[crashdive123]

Excellent videos.

[rwc1969]

Thanks Crash, and that 'd be cool ycc. I appreciate it.

I have my new skin folded and wrapped in on itself, flesh side in, double wrapped in a plastic garbage bag inside a paper grocery bag and into my new ice box along with a ziploc container full of brains, lol, the meat from both deer, and my shrooms.

I still have room in there for about 3 more deer and another hide or two. Convenient!

[Rick]

Way cool job, RWC. How can you and YCC walk around with 5 green thingies? That just looks heavy.

[your_comforting_company]

yeah.. it makes you walk funny too.

[Winnie]

I love watching this stuff! It's something I won't have the chance to do myself, but it's great to see the job done. Thankyou.

[rwc1969]

You're welcome Winnie and Rick. I noticed i've been walkin' a lil funny lately, thought it was the sore butt from sittin' on a bucket de-hairing.

[SARKY]

What can you make with deer?.........Me dinner!

[rwc1969]

That's #1 on the list Sarky. I have the liver and kidneys soaking in salt water right now and will probably be cooking them up later today. The inner loins are history.

[your_comforting_company]

You know, the dehairing video is really a cut above and is a great display of adaptability. The truth is that you just have to do it and figure it out just like you said. I think it's better than what's on the DVD's that are out there because it is REAL, and it's how anybody who goes at it for the first time is going to see it.
It should definately go in the utility leather thread. A really excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

[rwc1969]

By all means feel free to put it in there YCC, thanks.

After 6 days I decided to pull the skin from the creek.

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As you can see it's not white or anywhere close. It is now all stained up from the debris and such in the creek and is quite dirty too. There is a large orange stain along the bottom edge in the pic which came from something in the creek. Thinking back I think the creek was a bad idea. The creek level had went down greatly in the past two weeks and there wasn't much flow. Also, this creek, as most every creek and river in Southern Michigan is full of sediment, leaves and such and has no real rocks or gravel in it. I think if you're going to soak it in a creek it needs to be a swift flow of water over gravel and rocks in a stream that is not filled with sediment. That is very hard to find in Southern Michigan as all our creeks and rivers have been choked out long ago due to farming, household cleaning chemicals, industry, logging activity, etc. etc.

Nevertheless, the deed is done so I put it in a pot below with some dishsoap and a little vinegar to hopefully rinse out the grey color, stains, dirt, blood and such and bring it back toward a more acid ph, neutralize the lime. The vinegar is a tip I got at Braintan.com as well as several other sources for bark tan. It makes perfect sense to me as the vinegar will neutralize the lime. From what I understand trhis step isn't needed for bucking with lye or wood ash, but is suggested for limed hides, which is what I have.

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As you can see the water was quite cloudy still which leads me to believe the 6 days in the creek didn't do much to remove the lime, maybe it did, I don't know. I rinsed it 4 times until the water was fairly clear and scrubbed it with my hands in the soap to try and remove some of the stains and discoloration. My efforts did very little, but at least I got the dirt and leaves from the creek washed off it. LOL! I then let it soak in the pot of cold water for about 6 hours with about a 1/4 cup of vinegar to hopefully neutralize some of the lime which I was most certain it was still loaded with.

Side note:

I'm thinking at this point the lime I used was a bad idea and next time I'll use wood ash or straight up lye instead. I'm pretty sure the majority of the discoloration is from the lime, or inert ingredients within the lime, maybe not??? It took on a grey outside color and tan inside color after placing it in the lime. It seems that most of the blood has been washed out of the hide at this point except for the area immediately surrounding the bullet hole.

So, after soaking and rinsing I placed it in the 4th pouring which I diluted about 50/50 with cold tap water. As you can see below the 4th pour, even after diluting, has darkened up considerably since I showed it in the previous posts above. It has been leaching out tannins from the bark for 5-6 days.

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You can see 1 to 2" down into the diluted liquor. I put it in yesterday and stirred it frequently for the first couple hours and three or four times today as well. The skin is taking on the brown coloration of the tannins and the liqour has lightened up noticably since I took the pic above. You can now see easily 2" down into it.

Unless you see something that throws a red flag YCC, I'm adding the third pouring full strength tomorrow as it's starting to look weak already, much lighter than pictured above.

My big question now is if the lime wasn't rinsed out thouroughly what will happen? and how do I tell if it needs more membraning?

Since the hide wasn't anywhere near white I feel it's going to be hard to tell if the tannins are soaking in evenly across the entire skin.

BTW, the orange streak I mentioned above turned pitch black when it hit the tannins. It must have been rust from something in the creek that wasn't visible to me?? Personally, I'm not worried about the staining, but want to be sure the skin is taking in the tannins properly.

[your_comforting_company]

I don't see any red flags and if you've noticed a change in the color of the liquor I'd say go ahead and step it up. It must be opened up really well and taking the tan.

Add about a half a gallon of your third pouring and see how that looks. Any time you think you might need it a little stronger than that, you can further condense any of your pourings. Like I said, none of this stuff is an exact science and it really just requires monitoring and going on what feels right.

That I know of, there is not much danger in leaving a small amount of lime in for bark tanning. I'm of the opinion that for braintanning the vinegar step can be used to neutralize the lime, but not so much to "acidify" the hide. Brains are slightly acidic, being amino acids, and acids are much less attracted to other acids than they are alkalis. That's my logic anyway..

I hate the hide got all stained and dirty like that. I don't normally have that problem since I use tapwater. I do wash mine with dawn or dove when they have stubborn spots, so don't worry about the soap.

The picture of the fourth pouring above looks good. If it's much weaker than that add some, and try to keep it about the same consistency throughout, getting a little bit stronger (darker) each time.

now it's just a waiting game. I've had one take 45 days, and I've had one take 60 days. There's no way to know how long it will take. Once a week I'd check the neck. make a small cut into the hide at the neck and look for color to go all the way to the center. You're at least a few weeks from needing that tho. I'll do my first neck check on monday which will be day 14 on the black walnut cow. That'll give you a good idea what to look for.

Man, you've really taken this thing and run with it! I'm super excited for you brother. I know that as well as you've done so far with it, that this is going to turn out great. It's amazing how with just a little background info, you just kinda "know" what to do.

I'd bet that that slow creek would have tanned it, especially if the creek has lots of leaves and "brackish" water. Leaves from many trees have lots of tannins in them too. Particularly sumac trees.

Time to hit the woods, so I'll check back later tonight. Keep up the good work!

[rwc1969]

LOL! the creek was tanning it. Wherever a leaf bit settled on it there would be a tannin stain. And when it got drug up on the log by whatever critter there was a stain as well.

This got me thinking. Many of the swamps around here are in amongst hardwood forests and the water is usally red with tannins. Hmm? Premade bark liquor or would it just rot?

Also got me wondering if fresh fallen dried oak leaves from the forest floor could be used the same way sumac leaves are??

Just a couple things I've been pondering.