Should we get this house?

[sgtdraino]

As you may or may not know, my wife and I are now house hunting for our very first house. Well, we just looked at one that is both within our price range, and also TOTALLY BADASS!

I'd be interested to get you guyses opinions on it, I uploaded our tour of the property on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xorSllPbz5U

A few interesting factors:

The main house is a CMU (Concrete Masonry Unit) block house built in 1953, which I'm told are often not well insulated. However, we have recently learned that this one actually does have insulated walls on both the first and second floor. It is a HUGE house, 2917 square feet, on .59 acres. However, it has NO central heating or air conditioning. All the climate control is done via space heaters, window A/Cs, or a nice wood stove. The house was built by the guy currently living there! It seems to be in basically good shape, however there are definitely some repairs that are needed, most noticeably to the roof. I don't know yet the extent of what such repairs would cost. The house is being sold more or less "as is," so it would be up to us to undertake repairs after we've bought the house.

The cool stuff: This house is practically a little "compound." The house and all the surrounding outbuildings are painted a warm yellow color, which I personally like. In addition to the main house, there is a large wired utility building, and a small shed. The entire perimeter of the property is surrounded by a fence. There's a little concrete path that runs between the buildings. The back yard is pretty amazing looking, you will have to just see the video to see what I'm talking about.

Additionally, the house has an "efficiency apartment" that is attached to the side of the house, but has its own separate entrance. The apartment opens into a secluded courtyard/deck area directly behind the garage. An "efficiency apartment" is basically like a tricked-out hotel room: One main room, but with a small compact bathroom, and a small compact kitchen. A truly self-contained living area. In theory we could take on a tenant to additionally defray mortgage costs, or during the harder utility months, retreat in there ourselves.

The utility bills range from $70 to $140, but that doesn't reflect the cost of wood used in the wood stove. There are two large piles of wood out back, I have no idea how fast they might go through that. I'd be interested to hear some expert opinions on that issue.

The house is out in the county (no city taxes), and is on well and septic.

Asking price is $110,000.

So, what are your thoughts?

Should we get this house?

[welderguy]

I have three questions .
1. Does it fit your families needs
2. Is it in your price range
3. How much money will it take to do the repairs needed

IMHO if the answer to those questions All work out for you then yeah get it.

[sgtdraino]

I have three questions .
1. Does it fit your families needs

At the moment, we don't have any children. But we want to have some, and we want enough space to comfortably raise them in.

2. Is it in your price range

Yes.

3. How much money will it take to do the repairs needed

That is the great unknown, at that point. I am hoping some of the significant ones can be incorporated into our mortgage.

[Rick]

1. Pay to have the house inspected. You won't have a guarantee but you will have a trained person looking at everything.
2. Talk to your insurance agent and find out how much insurance will be on the house. If there has ever been a water related claim you might not be able to get insurance if the house is listed in the CLUE database.
3. Talk to the power company and get a printout of the kilowatt usage for the last 12 months. That should tell you how well insulated it is.
4. If you don't already know, talk the police about crime in the area (Mr. Cop).
5. Have you been under the house, in the attic and through any other spaces not readily accessible. You need to review all those. Look for signs of water, mold and insect damage.
6. Is it in a flood plane and will you need Federal Flood Insurance?
7. Can you get a Homestead Exemption on this house?
8. What kind of security features does it have? From strike plates to deadbolts to window locks to security systems.
9. Can you check the tuck pointing in the cinder blocks? Loose mortar will be an expensive fix on an all block house.
10. What's the age on the air units?
11. What's the age on the water heater?
12. City water? If not how old is the pump and what is the depth?
13. City sewer? If not when is the last time the septic was serviced?
14. When was the last time the chimney was cleaned?
15. How did they insulate the block walls?
16. What is the electrical rating and is it up to code? That could be a huge expense down stream.

For most folks, buying a home is the single largest investment they will make. Buy with your head and not your heart. Otherwise, you will certainly be sorry and might be out a lot of money just to live there. Read, read, read everything about house buying you can get your hands on. Be an educated buyer then you can know what to negotiate on.

Your home is out there. It may or may not be this one but you want the right one.

http://www.ourfamilyplace.com/homebuyer/checklist.html

http://www.homebuyingtips.net/Buyers_checklist.htm

http://homebuying.about.com/od/homes...7_homeinsp.htm

[Rick]

If it was built in 1953 and it's on city sewer then find out if clay tile was used. If so and with that many trees you will probably have a root problem. Ask about any sewer issue. In fact, if the guy built the house ask him what he used for sewer line regardless of type of service and ask what he used for fresh water line as well.

[BENESSE]

EXCELLENT post, Rick!
I sure wish we had your advice when we bought our first house. We were kids with limited funds and we finally found something we loved and could afford--all this in a neighborhood we coveted.
Well, we got the 101 yr. old house along with host of things that needed fixing. We enjoyed living there but it was never ever care free.
Just wish we knew more at the beginning so we could have negotiate better terms.

[crashdive123]

All good advice. Also - it looks like some additions were made to the home. Pull all permits that were issued to do it to make sure it was done to code. Check to see if their are any outstanding liens (your realtor should do this), I've inspected a lot of homes. Some do-it-yourselfers should not be allowed to buy tools. Check prices to fix things. The roof on a home that size can be a large expense.

[crashdive123]

As to your poll - looks like you've already made up your mind.

[2dumb2kwit]

Rick pretty much covered the things that I would have suggested.

I will add this.....

1. Ricks number 1 should be in bold letters.....pay someone to inspect it, and tell you what it needs and what that will cost!

2. Those utility prices sound like they are while burning wood for heat. Cutting wood for heat gets old. Cleaning out the ashes, bringing in wood, feeding the fire, gets old. My point is....see if you can find out what the heating bills are, without burning wood. This may become an issue, later on.

3. Also, as Rick said, check on the insurance. A lot of companies are very funny about wood stoves.

[oldsoldier]

From what I could see from the video it looks okay. The camera person kept moving the camera so much it's hard to get a good look. But if you like it, your family likes it, and it's in your price range, have it looked over by a professional inspector. Then if it checks out then go for it.

[sgtdraino]

1. Pay to have the house inspected. You won't have a guarantee but you will have a trained person looking at everything.

Inspections are pretty much required these days, So we'll definitely be doing this. The agent admits that this house is probably an inspector's nightmare, because it's so large, complex, and built by the owner.

Additionally, once the inspector has a pass, I am inclined to go ahead and get some estimates on any major items.

2. Talk to your insurance agent and find out how much insurance will be on the house.

Good point.

If there has ever been a water related claim you might not be able to get insurance if the house is listed in the CLUE database.

What is a "water related claim?" Not familiar with the CLUE database, but we will research it.

3. Talk to the power company and get a printout of the kilowatt usage for the last 12 months. That should tell you how well insulated it is.

We'll be getting copies of bills that have this on it, but as previously mentioned, current utilities run $70 to $140.

4. If you don't already know, talk the police about crime in the area (Mr. Cop).

I certainly will, although at a glance I don't anticipate problems. The house is out in the country, there's not much residential stuff around it. Additionally most of the property is fenced, and the house is built like a tank.

5. Have you been under the house, in the attic and through any other spaces not readily accessible. You need to review all those. Look for signs of water, mold and insect damage.

I have not been under the house, but I have been in the attic (see video). It looked fine to me (but what do I know?), but I don't think the attic is insulated. Adding insulation to the attic might increase efficiency, yes?

6. Is it in a flood plane and will you need Federal Flood Insurance?

Not on a flood plane

7. Can you get a Homestead Exemption on this house?

Whazzat? Sounds interesting. Links? Info?

The property seems like it would be good for a small homestead, there's already a chicken coop in the back, and chickens running around. And that utility building is huge!

8. What kind of security features does it have? From strike plates to deadbolts to window locks to security systems.

As far as I know there is no alarm system. The window locks I have seen are about what you'd expect. Most of the doors appear to be metal, interestingly enough. Of course, generally it's the door frame that gives first anyway. My wife is a locksmith, so she could take care of some of these issues.

9. Can you check the tuck pointing in the cinder blocks? Loose mortar will be an expensive fix on an all block house.

I don't know, but I sure hope the inspector will be doing that! Is this something you think we need to mention to him specifically, or would this be a common thing for an inspector to check?

10. What's the age on the air units?

Good question.

11. What's the age on the water heater?

GREAT question. My dad needed a new one of those recently, and it was quite expensive.

12. City water? If not how old is the pump and what is the depth?

New well dug in 2007, depth is unknown at this time. Don't know the age of the pump, or if there even is one. My understanding is that there is a "gravity" variety of wells that sometimes doesn't use pumps?

13. City sewer? If not when is the last time the septic was serviced?

Septic last pumped in 2006.

14. When was the last time the chimney was cleaned?

Good question, dunno.

15. How did they insulate the block walls?

Rolled insulation underneath sheet rock.

16. What is the electrical rating and is it up to code? That could be a huge expense down stream.

Good question.

Thanks for the info and the links, Rick! You brought up some great questions.

In fact, if the guy built the house ask him what he used for sewer line regardless of type of service and ask what he used for fresh water line as well.

Good idea. I really want to talk to that guy (I think he's about 80), but so far we've not had the opportunity to speak to him directly. The realtors are insulating him from us.

All good advice. Also - it looks like some additions were made to the home. Pull all permits that were issued to do it to make sure it was done to code.

Yes, the home has many additions. It appears to have been a large work in progress. It looks like the house was initially one story with an attic, and then that attic was converted into a second story, and an attic was added on top of that. Additionally, it almost seems like additional rooms have been added to the second story over the years; various rooms still have windows in them, that look into other rooms.

The efficiency apartment was added in 1970, and is wood frame, not CMU. Also, the kitchen/den area of the main house appears to be wood frame, so may have been a later addition.

Check prices to fix things. The roof on a home that size can be a large expense.

Damn right, definitly going to do that. I'm hoping that some of the major repairs can be combined with our mortgage loan.

Part of roof was reshingled in 2001

As to your poll - looks like you've already made up your mind.

Bah, that's just so I can see the results at a glance. And obviously I do like the house, but I can walk away if need be.

2. Those utility prices sound like they are while burning wood for heat. Cutting wood for heat gets old. Cleaning out the ashes, bringing in wood, feeding the fire, gets old. My point is....see if you can find out what the heating bills are, without burning wood. This may become an issue, later on.

This is a big issue I want more details on, because it HAS become an issue, for the current residents. They are both elderly. The original builder is no longer capable of doing much, and his wife (second wife) is elderly too, and one of the reasons she gave for wanting to move out, is that she can no longer properly tend to that wood stove. So, I really want to know just how reliant they are on that, and how quick they go through those two HUGE piles of wood out back. I need to at least do some price calculations to figure out how much that stuff is going to add to my bills each month, and that's before we even get into the labor involved.

3. Also, as Rick said, check on the insurance. A lot of companies are very funny about wood stoves.

Good point, I'll be sure to mention that. From what I'm hearing, the stove in this house is a very nice one.

From what I could see from the video it looks okay. The camera person kept moving the camera so much it's hard to get a good look.

lol. That's me, sorry. As soon as I turned the camera on, the "no battery" indicator started blinking, so I was rushing around trying to get as much as I could, before the camera died. We are going back this coming Wednesday, I will try to take a much better, more comprehensive video then.

[2dumb2kwit]

BTW...I'm not that smart....It's just that I have lived in a house that was block construction, with a lot of brick interior walls, that if I didn't keep a good fire going, my utilities more than tripled.

I was amazed at this, because the house was very easy to cool, in the summer.

[sgtdraino]

BTW...I'm not that smart....It's just that I have lived in a house that was block construction, with a lot of brick interior walls, that if I didn't keep a good fire going, my utilities more than tripled.

I was amazed at this, because the house was very easy to cool, in the summer.

I have read that this is pretty common with a block house. It's like a giant heat sink. They tend to stay cool in summer, but can be hard to heat in winter.

You said it had brick interior walls, yes? So, that means you had no insulation at all. This house has sheet rock on the inside, under which (we are told) is rolled insulation. So, hopefully it won't be as bad as that... but then again it's pretty clear that they are pretty dependent on that stove.

[Rick]

Any concerns you have I'd share with the inspector. He/She is trained to look for those things but if you mention it then they are going to give it a little better look because they know you are concerned. Wouldn't you if you were doing that job? Then follow up and ask them after the inspection what they thought about the items you mention.

Adding insulation most definitely will increase efficiency. I have 17 inches of blown in insulation over the six that was in my attic for a total of 23 inches. The difference was almost immediate when I put it in. With both insulation and good attic ventilation you can eliminate or greatly lessen any ice dams that might build up on the eves as well.

The CLUE database enables homeowner and automobile insurers to exchange information - without notice to you unless your state requires notice- about claims for loss of property. Here's a simple example of how the exchange system works:

• Insurance companies feed information about property loss claims, perhaps even inquiries about coverage, into a central database.
• If you file a claim for loss against your homeowner policy, the insurance company adds this information to the national database.
• The CLUE database is maintained by an information vendor, not another insurance company.
• If you apply for homeowner's insurance with another company - say, you move to another part of the country - the new insurance company can access the CLUE database and learn of your past claims.

The CLUE report also shows the new insurer information about claims you filed under your previous insurer's policy, although nothing filed more than five years ago. CLUE might also include information about inquiries you make, even if a claim was never submitted or paid. To find out if this practice is prohibited in your state, contact your state insurance agency. You can find contact information at www.naic.org/state_web_map.htm

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs26-CLUE.htm#2

In short, let's say you have a water leak and call your insurance agent to find out about your deductible. In the end you pay for the entire repair and don't file a claim. There is still a good possibility that the insurance agent entered that info into the CLUE database. They certainly would if a claim is filed. Since water = mold when it's time to sell the house new buyers find out they can't get insurance because no insurance company wants to take on a moldy house whether it is or not. OR....you buy a house only to find you can't get insurance because of the same reason. Better to know up front.

the Homestead Exemption is a way to reduce your real estate taxes on the house, protect it from creditors and make certain your spouse keeps it if you die or vice versa. You generally have to file with your county tax assessor. It's not automatic. At least it isn't in Indiana.

Here's a link to check the law in your state:

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/homestead/

[LowKey]

Hopefully there's a moisture barrier in there between the insulation and the concrete.

Get the water tested.

2006 is a long time on the septic not being pumped but maybe not with just one guy there. Every 3 years recommended.

You may want it tested for lead paint and radon. That doesn't fall under the home inspection. It's usually separate.

Just looked at the movie. You need a buyer's agent if you are going to keep looking. That realtor you were with was kinda scary. I'm not sure I would believe a thing she told me about the property just based on what little she said in your video. But I'm a cynic when it comes to realtors.

Is the house being emptied before you move in? It looks like the kind of place that you are going to keep discovering surprises every time you move something.

Might want to consider getting the soil tested in certain spots.

When you hire a home inspector, get references and call them.

Stick with your inspector and ask questions. Ask him what he's checking for. Have him do circuit checks on all the electrical. That house looks like it has a lot of weird stuff going on all over the place.

Note to self: when selling house, remove stuff before showings. Someone may make a video and put it on YouTube...

[crashdive123]

Also - all inspectors are not created equal. Not sure about the laws in your state, but be careful of whom you hire. Your Realtor may recommend somebody. Check them out yourself - get references - check insurance - licenses - etc. Often Realtors will choose the inspector that offers the path of least resistance to their commission check.

[Rick]

Crash makes a good point. Not uncommon for the realtor to get a kick-back from the inspector for recommending them. Buyer beware.

[Trabitha]

That video gave me a headache. LOL!! Sllloooooow dooooooown.

I THOUGHT I saw some things that would set off some radar, but the camera just moved so quickly past everything to be sure.
Rick made a lot of great points. Insurance companies and the real-estate agent will usually be able to tell you if the house is in a flood-plane. If it is, you will be required to purchase flood insurance in order to get a mortgage.
When you get your inspection, the inspector usually gives you a good idea of costs when he comes across things that need to be addressed.

The windows look rather old...and that is a huge investment. I don't know what the market is like out there, but if the price is set about right for the area, get your agent to get you a comparison on homes in that area. That way you can see what this one is lacking, and offer accordingly.

Believe me...it's really easy to say that you can fix things on your own. It's much harder to actually do it. Our fist fixer-upper took a couple years to get fixed up enough to sell, and we needed to hire a lot of help to get it there. Our current fixer-upper wasn't even SOLD to us as a fixer-upper...but the darn thing has been worked on for 4 years now. It's harder to do when you have small children and if you put off having children until the house is done, you may never HAVE children.

Good luck with your decision.

[rwc1969]

I like it with all the outhouses and such, but it will be expensive to heat, comparably, and will have lots of cold spots. I can almost guarantee more than 140 a month, unless you use wood and get that wood free.

I tried to see a few things but you moved to quick with the camera to tell anything specific.

It doesn't appear to have insulation in the attic, does it? If the attic has no insulation then I doubt the walls do, but maybe. I doubt the cinder blocks were sealed and I know that it wasn't tyveked.

The windows look old and single pane, are they? The outbuilding roof will likely need to be completely torn off because it looks like that tree has been hanging on it for a long time which means the boards that support it are likely rotten, at least the OSB is.

I think it'd be a great project for a do it yourselfer, but for someone who is hoping to wrap the costs into the mortgage, and have someone else do the work?, I think you might consider an alternative. If you decide to sell later you will most likely not get back what you put in.

I have no idea what the going prices are in your area, but unless that is a greatly reduced price I'd consider looking at other options, especially if you're not a do it yourselfer.

As it stands as you said, it needs a new roof. Possibly windows, insulation, and possibly a complete teardown of the drywall to properly seal and insualte it. The fact that it has no central heat either is a huge price reducer and will make it hard to sell, not to mention it's made of cinder blocks, which isn't a bad thing, but not good for selling purposes.

[sgtdraino]

Any concerns you have I'd share with the inspector.

Sounds good.

Adding insulation most definitely will increase efficiency. I have 17 inches of blown in insulation over the six that was in my attic for a total of 23 inches.

Good, good. My wife's dad was trying to see if the attic is "ventilated," we couldn't tell from the video. What can you guys tell me about that?

The CLUE database enables homeowner and automobile insurers to exchange information - without notice to you unless your state requires notice- about claims for loss of property.

So, is this something that my insurance agent would check out for me, or something I need to figure out how to check myself?

You can find contact information at www.naic.org/state_web_map.htm

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs26-CLUE.htm#2

Noted.

the Homestead Exemption is a way to reduce your real estate taxes on the house, protect it from creditors and make certain your spouse keeps it if you die or vice versa. You generally have to file with your county tax assessor.

Here's a link to check the law in your state:

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/homestead/

Here's North Carolina's:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Legislat...article10.html

I see how it protects the house from creditors (other than the original mortgage loan creditor), but not immediately seeing how it can reduce my real estate taxes. I'm also not clear whether I need to declare it with the tax assessor, or whether the law automatically applies.

Hopefully there's a moisture barrier in there between the insulation and the concrete.

Good question.

Get the water tested.

Yep.

2006 is a long time on the septic not being pumped Every 3 years recommended.

Yeah, we figure the septic is about do.

You may want it tested for lead paint and radon. That doesn't fall under the home inspection. It's usually separate.

Hmmm. We'll see about that. I'm not overly concerned about toxins present, since the current occupant is still kicking after having lived there for 57 years, and I'm not sure we could afford to replace a whole bunch of paint, if that's what it came to. I hear that can be extremely costly.

Just looked at the movie. You need a buyer's agent if you are going to keep looking. But I'm a cynic when it comes to realtors.

Don't worry, I took everything she said with a huge grain of salt, especially when she talked about how well-insulating she imagined the block walls were. But FYI, she is not the agent for this house. She's just the agent that brought it to our attention.

Is the house being emptied before you move in?

I'm sure they will empty the stuff they care about, but I suspect they will want to leave a lot of their clutter behind, especially in the back yard. This frankly doesn't bother me, I see it as another bargaining point.

It looks like the kind of place that you are going to keep discovering surprises every time you move something.

More stuff to sell on craigslist!

Might want to consider getting the soil tested in certain spots.

For...?

When you hire a home inspector, get references and call them.

Many banks have a list of inspectors that they recommend. Since the bank would be motivated in having an accurate assessment of a property, I figure those lists should be pretty good to go by, no?

Stick with your inspector and ask questions. Ask him what he's checking for. Have him do circuit checks on all the electrical. That house looks like it has a lot of weird stuff going on all over the place.

Absolutely!

Also - all inspectors are not created equal. Not sure about the laws in your state, but be careful of whom you hire.

How about inspectors recommended by our bank or credit union?

I THOUGHT I saw some things that would set off some radar, but the camera just moved so quickly past everything to be sure.

We are going back tomorrow, and we plan to take a much more sedate video of the place (my camera will be fully charged up this time). Stay tuned!

Insurance companies and the real-estate agent will usually be able to tell you if the house is in a flood-plane.

It is not on a flood plane.

When you get your inspection, the inspector usually gives you a good idea of costs when he comes across things that need to be addressed.

I've heard mixed things on this, some folks have said the inspector will identify what is wrong, but probably will not give cost estimates on repair. I certainly hope you are right!

The windows look rather old...and that is a huge investment. I don't know what the market is like out there, but if the price is set about right for the area, get your agent to get you a comparison on homes in that area. That way you can see what this one is lacking, and offer accordingly.

Based on the other properties we've looked at so far, this one is waaay more bang for buck... except for these repair issues, which may be significant.

Believe me...it's really easy to say that you can fix things on your own. It's much harder to actually do it.

All great points. Yes, sometimes it is hard to find the time once you've settled in to daily life, and in the past we have both been bad about procrastinating. Right now I feel highly motivated... but who knows what the future will bring?