Back to some rough days

**Camp10** · 09-01-2010, 05:47 PM

I sure hope that you can pick up some help soon! I've done plenty of roofs and I would hate to have to do it for a living all alone. It is hard to find someone humble enough to be willing to start at the bottom anymore and it will be a tough sell without any pneumatic tools to get an experienced roofer to jump on board. Good luck YCC!

**Winter** · 09-01-2010, 08:55 PM

YCC, roofing by yourself is not very safe.

**your_comforting_company** · 09-02-2010, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Justin Case

it wouldn't be nails, it would be staples with a gun, and Hand nailed roofs are WAYYY better !! Especially if you are doing a re-roof,,, (new shingles over old, 1 7/8 nails are the way to go,, am i right YCC ?

I outright refuse to do roofovers. Nope. That's like saying "my floor is rotten, so I'll put more wood on top of it and it'll be okay". The old rotten stuff needs to be removed, and if you want me to warranty the roof, that stuff has gotta go. ... but then most folks' warranty on a 30 year roof is only 30 days...

The reason the shingles fall off is because the nails are either driven too far in and go through the shingle, or are not driven flush and the head isn't holding. Tell you what, Next patch I have to do that was put on with a gun, I'll be sure to take pictures of and you can be the judge. It may be 2010, but I stand my position that faster is not better. Every nail I drive gets the proper attention for a roof to last 30 years as opposed to 5.
And no I don't carry the shingles up. I have a conveyor to move shingles to the roof.
If it's not the gun, you tell me what makes the nails pull through the shingle, or tear out the from the middle upward. I've fixed a lot of them and every time the shingles are falling off, I notice they were put on with a gun... funny coincidence for it not to be true, just sayin...

And AS, to clarify, I was giving the hourly production pay.. umm.. I'm paying him by the square, same as I get paid (10' x 10') and what he can lay in an hour generally averages out to $25.

And now that I think about it.. he did decide to drive his truck that day for some odd reason. Sarge may have hit the nail on the head. (hardy har har!)

**oldsoldier** · 09-02-2010, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

You don't use a nail gun? That has nothing to do with when the roof falls off, just how fast you can put it on! Same nails, same shingles. I'll bet you tote the bundles to the roof on your shoulder too.

This is 2010, no wonder he quit!

Nothing wrong with the old fasioned way. When I roofed for a living and now when I do "side work" I still use a hammer and nails when roofing I can do more with hammer and nails than almost everyone I've worked with them using a gun. Last one I done ( last summer) I laid an average of 2 1/2 sq, and hour my way while the other two guys using guns averaged 2 1/4 sq, an hour COMBINED. I also agree with YCC that gun nailing just doesn't last as long.

Hey YCC I NEVER could weave a valley very well either

**Alaskan Survivalist** · 09-02-2010, 05:08 PM

I've used many young guys to do my grunt work and brought them up to speed as fast as they could learn. I've used a lot of troubled kids that no one would hire, but they transform quickly with a swift kick in the a$$ and learning a trade and take pride in their work. Many of them have families of thier own now and still come around to thank me for giving them a trade. It is rewarding in more than just capital.

**your_comforting_company** · 09-03-2010, 05:51 AM

valley weave
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It was a pretty big house
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The owner picked me specifically to put the roof on his new house. I roofed his brothers house down the road all by myself and it was equally as large. That was before my most recent helper came along. I also did the house across the street (erm.. dirt road) from this one. Across the street is where I picked a few mullein to transplant into my yard, and where I got the red-, and paper mulberry trees I now have growing on the west side of my house to shade the evening sun.

This property is on the back side of the WMA. Going to work every morning, riding through the WMA, I'd usually see a few deer and turkeys. There are a few low quality chert rocks around that area too, and only a few miles from there I sourced some highly silicated flintlike material.

got a little off topic there... oops!

**Camp10** · 09-03-2010, 06:55 AM

YCC, do you put ice and water shield (bituathane) down under your shingles? Looking at that valley made me think of it, dont know why..I'm not sure if it is used much in your area or not.

**BENESSE** · 09-03-2010, 08:15 AM

If money were no object, what is in your opinion, the best, most durable roof to have?
(You mentioned in a another thread that metal wouldn't be it, if I remember correctly.)
I grew up thinking it would be copper. But then I look around structures in Europe that had withstood the test of time (300+ yrs old) and I'm not so sure.

**Justin Case** · 09-03-2010, 08:29 AM

I may be wrong,,, but I think weaving valley's is a lost art,, around here I "think" they are mostly using a metal valley Flashing,,

**your_comforting_company** · 09-03-2010, 07:18 PM

Camp10, we rarely get snow, so there's no need for the ice shield. I can say that I've never had a woven valley to leak, so I personally don't see the need. I use it around chimneys and such, sometimes. They stock it at the building supply, but it rarely gets used by anyone around here. Dead valleys and flat roofs I use the new rubberoid torch-down stuff. Really good stuff.

B. I would have to say ceramic (the half circle ones, I forget what they are called), if there are no trees,
copper,
and "locking seam" (at least that's what I call it) metal roofing as the screws are not exposed. It works a lot like shingles and even sort of gives the appearance of shingles.
There are some slate roofs in town that are 100+ years old.
As far as practical, I have to say architectural 30 yr shingles are the most affordable long-term. If money was no object, I would go with the new-steel locking seam. Copper is so blasted expensive now that it is no longer practical for use. The fallback of the standard "screw-down" metal roofing is that the little rubber washer that goes between the screw and the metal will never last 50 years, and I often find myself going to metal roof jobs just to pull old screws and install new ones. The washers last about 5 or 6 years and then they're dry-rotten.

Justin, if you don't know how to weave one, cutting back and exposing the metal flashing is the best alternative, provided the metal is bent correctly. It should kind of look like (___) to keep water from moving sideways in heavy winds. I agree that weaving is a lost art. Thankfully my grandma is still alive and was able to teach me.
I've fixed too many valleys that used the "georgia boy cut" and I'm here to tell you... If you get near a valley with a knife, you're asking for trouble. Almost every "georgia boy cut" valley I see is full of tar.. wonder why that is?
Weaving is the way to go. Yes it's slow, but I've never had one leak! Leaks are bad for your reputation!

(hopefully I got all the questions lol)

**LowKey** · 09-03-2010, 07:54 PM

By those 'locking seam' shingles you mean the ones that lock on two sides then nail in the opposite corner?
One of my relatives has a roof of interlocked aluminum. All I can say is I hope they never have to replace anything in the middle of it. I'll stick to good old shingles.

You do nice work.
We use those coil nailers and staplers at work. It's always a trick to get them dialed in to the right pressure and we're on a fairly regulated system in the shop. On-site with a portable air-source it's really tough. for the wood and metal we do it doesn't so much matter as long as it doesn't blow through the wood but on a shingle it matters a lot.

**your_comforting_company** · 09-04-2010, 11:26 AM

I use pneumatics for wood framing.. it's just more efficient and it's hard as heck to shoot a nail through 3" of wood. With shingles, you've got about 1/8" of "sweet spot" and beyond that scope you're either too shallow or too deep.. they've gotta be just right, and without a super expensive air regulation system, I just don't trust 'em.

You're right about the interlocked stuff. If there are no trees over the house, that's the way to go, but if you get a hole in the middle of it, it is a real pain to fix. A lot of factors come into play when selecting the type of roofing to use. I'm with you. Good old shingles are the way to go. While they won't last a lifetime, they are easy to repair, they look good, and are relatively inexpensive when compared to the other options.