Fire making myths put to rest?

**rwc1969** · 08-30-2010, 11:25 AM

I wanted to find out what it would take to get a fire going with mag shavings, and I wanted to find out if wet mag shavings would ignite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa2O-AiCmHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLJsp_0-gSA

Then I wanted to find out if a wet ferro rod would still throw sparks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPmfL9P2dik

Water soaked ferro rod: It works and the video proves it, nuff said.

Mag bar:

It takes a huge amount of effort to scrape up enough shavings to ignite even the driest and most easily ignited tinder, frayed blue jeans.

A quarter sized pile of shavings only burns for a fraction of a second. I had to scrape up about 6 quarters worth to get it to finally work, but it did work. The shavings fly everywhere while being scraped so I used a big brown paper bag to gather them up and keep them dry as I scraped. It took 5 minutes or so under ideal conditions to get enough shavings to ignite the blue jeans and two separate attempts.

I've heard people here say that wet magnesium shavings will ignite! So, I tested it out by pouring less than a tablespoon worth of water on a 2" wide by 1" high pile of mag shavings, a huge pile as I've also been told it only takes a quarter sized pile to start a fire. This was about 6 quarters worth of shavings, took 5 minutes to make the shavings, and my hands were extremely sore and weak for all the effort. But, after letting all excess water run off I held a lighter to them for over 30 seconds at two different times, I sparked my ferro rod on them numerous times, I burned a big piece of white birch bark on them for over 30 seconds, started a fire with the birch bark, took a 15 minute break twice and finally, after completely drying off they ignited using a ferro rod.

Bottom line: mag shavings will not ignite when wet unless you dry them off first. The video more than proves this theory!

My hands were crippled from the effort and it is the middle of summer and I was not in need of fire. No stress, no cold fingers, etc. etc.

On a positive note the ferro rod that came with my mag bar decided to finally start throwing sparks after several hundred to perhaps a thousand attempts. I removed it from the bar and put a handle on it. Based on the haphazard and random globs of molten metal it throws I can only assume it's misch metal and not ferrocerium. It is very hard to get the sparks to go where you want and I had to wear the rod down to half it's original thickness before it ever threw consistent usable sparks.

This was not a "Doane brand bar", but was imprinted with "Cochlan's Made in the USA", although the package it came in said "Made in Canada"??

After many experiments resulting in mostly failed, cold, and sore attempts over the past year I firmly believe that the mag bar, as intended, is a poor excuse for a fire starter and will only work under the most ideal dry and staged conditions. Conditions where a ferro rod alone would produce better results. Conditions you are not likely to encounter in any environment, except for maybe your front porch.

**Rick** · 08-30-2010, 12:20 PM

A couple of suggestions.

1. carry another knife with your mag bar and use the edge of the knife to cut the mag shavings instead of the spine to scrape. You'll get a lot more shaving much more quickly and your hands won't die in the process. The blade you use will be dulled. Try chipping from the end corner, too, instead of the middle of the bar.

2. The water on the shavings is absorbing the heat, I think. I've never tried to light wet shavings the way you did. I've always pressed them dry with a bandana or some other material to soak up the excess water. I don't know why I've never tried it like that I just haven't. I was surprised at the lighter, however. Magnesium doesn't absorb water so the surface water has to be dissipating the heat preventing the magnesium from igniting.

In any case, good vids and good effort. A little rep your way. As our friend would say, boots in the field, baby!!

**klickitat** · 08-30-2010, 01:03 PM

For guys who have not spent much time in the woods trying things out for themselves and learning what does and doesn't work for them. This is what you need to do. Learn from these videos and from those who have done things like this. This is not to replace experience though.

Now I do have a little bit of a disagreement with some of what you did.

For me we do not have birch trees so that is not an option and is why being in the field for yourself is important.

Here in The PNW we deal with rain all the time in the field. One of the things you have to do no matter what you are using for tinder or a fire starter is to protect your tinder from the rain. I mention this because even if your mag rod gets wet, the shavings are going to be dry. If you let the rain hit your pile, then your tinder besides the shavings are going to get wet and you are going to make the job harder anyhow.

As for holding the mag rod. I have a suggestion that works for me. Take a piece of para cord and make a loop just big enough for your first three fingers to fit in. This allows you to put down pressure on the mag against something and be able to hold it with just your forefinger and thumb. This works for me really well.

I stick with the mag rod because I usually use cedar shavings from old growth stumps or from fat wood I find.

I love your video and think it is well worth watching. I will be looking forward to your next videos. Nothing replaces actual experience.

**Sourdough** · 08-30-2010, 01:51 PM

Nice report......Rep point sent, well done, thanks.

**RichJ** · 08-30-2010, 04:02 PM

I have a small 3" piece of hacksaw blade attached to my mag bar. I use the teeth of the blade to "shave" the mag from the block by scraping it lengthwise up and down (not side to side). I can produce a quarter sized pile in just a couple of minutes with no problem. Turn the blade over and use the smooth side to strike the rod. Hold it 90 degrees to the rod and it will shower sparks.

"the ferro rod that came with my mag bar decided to finally start throwing sparks after several hundred to perhaps a thousand attempts"

You're either not doing something right or you just got a bad one. Several good scrapes on a new rod will remove the coating but after that you will get very good sparks. I know some knives don't spark a ferro rod as well as others; maybe you should switch knives for this. The hacksaw blade works very well.

Edit: After watching your video I saw that you didn't have any trouble at all lighting the pile of shavings. It lit the second or third try and produced a nice burn. Your problem was your tinder. The denim material would have cought if you had frayed the material up instead of just putting a strip over the flame. Also, that piece of denim looked like the very bottom of the pant leg where it is stitched and hemmed. Woven cloth wont light easily as tender unless it is frayed down to the individual threads. Use a different tinder or pull the weave out of the denim and try it again.

**tsitenha** · 08-30-2010, 04:13 PM

I put a "ground edge=sharp and square" on the back of my knife makes the whole process easier but I still, like RichJ use a small length of high carbon hacksaw blade attached with a cord to throw a good spark.

Good one RichJ +1

**Rick** · 08-30-2010, 04:19 PM

Nice post, Rich.

**Camp10** · 08-30-2010, 05:32 PM

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ad.php?t=12757 I had no troubles with lighting a fire, I used birch for my tinder. I've made many fires with mag blocks and carry them all the time when I am hunting. Look at the pics in that thread..that really is all the mag shavings I use. I've made fires in the rain with this same technique but I will use a little more shavings.

**rwc1969** · 08-30-2010, 10:50 PM

Thanks for all the tips. That's a great tip on the paracord handle extender Klickitat! Thanks!

I can't see putting any more effort into this particular bar. I removed the bar and made a handle for the misch metal rod that came with it. It's actually misch metal, not ferrocerium.

As far as the bar, it makes a decent paperweight.

I was doing it as right as my then weakened and sore hands would allow, and won't carry an extra knife strictly for shaving the bar. My main disagreement with the bar is the amount of effort required compared to a multitude of other options.

I believe the videos explain everything quite well.

I do think the brand of mag bar may make a difference. I'm curious what the brand name is for all who use this and think it's worth the weight. I'm also curious to know if your mag bar has a misch or ferro rod.

**Rick** · 08-30-2010, 10:57 PM

Actually, that's a pretty astute observation. Chemically, they are quite different. Nice.

**rwc1969** · 08-30-2010, 11:06 PM

Since I posted that vid I now use a cheap SS fixed blade knife to strike both the misch metal and ferro rod. I get much more control and less fatigue. It also throws more sparks than the included striker that I was using in the vids.

**rwc1969** · 08-30-2010, 11:08 PM

Rick, I feel like a dumbace, but the vid don't lie. The included striker never worked prior to that vid, but it now works with anything I strike it on. Crazy!

I could have easily edited the embarrasing parts out, but felt it only right to include them.

**Rick** · 08-30-2010, 11:12 PM

I don't know why you feel that way. Think of it this way, you had a lot of practice to arrive at your success. Nothing wrong with that at all. The fact that you were able to capture the moment of success is pretty cool, I think. Not everyone of us does everything with ease. Some do one thing and have success while someone else does another. Sometimes, it's just dumb luck that we learn how to do things. It was a good vid on a good subject.

**crashdive123** · 08-31-2010, 08:02 AM

RWC - I thought you did a good job with the videos. It was kind of nice to watch your learning process with it. I imagine there are people that think - I'll just throw this in my kit and just use it when I need it. Unfortunately, without practice, it may not help them. I say - well done.

As to the mag bar - I found that the Coughlins brand was more difficult to get shavings from. There are a few others out there that seem easier (to me) to scrape shavings. In this vid I compared a few - and you'll notice that I didn't even bother with the Coughlins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCnaCTU8xHE

**tsitenha** · 08-31-2010, 01:28 PM

If you use a metal rasp to shred the magnisium before hand and place those cutting in a 35mm film can, it would save a lot of effort and be prepared at the same time.

**Rick** · 08-31-2010, 02:00 PM

It would be just my luck to drop the whole thing in the camp fire and I'd disappear just like one of Sarge's magic acts.

**RichJ** · 08-31-2010, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by tsitenha

If you use a metal rasp to shred the magnisium before hand and place those cutting in a 35mm film can, it would save a lot of effort and be prepared at the same time.

If you are going to go to that length just do the PJ coated cotton balls. They will burn longer and will be easier to use. It's probably the best fire tender anyway; hard to beat.

**rwc1969** · 08-31-2010, 02:06 PM

Thanks Crash, I might just try another model. At this moment I feel there are better all weather alternatives that require much less effort however you slice it. But, as my videos show, my views do change with experience.