Are these things going on elsewhere?

[oly]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=12191168

[crashdive123]

Sadly, probably not enough.

[Rick]

Not around here. What would we do with Utah anyway? (just kidding)

[LowKey]

Around here if a piece of land doesn't have a McMansion on it, it's considered an eyesore.
<sigh>
Is that article about closing the lands to wheeled and powered vehicles while still open to hikers and/or hunters on foot? Or closing it completely, as in no access? There are times and places for ATVs and other times and other places for an unobtrusive hike through the ecosystem. I'm not quite sure the article is about Utah owning the land. It sounds like a usage issue.

[canid]

meh. people don't even want to do their hiking on foot anymore.

[LowKey]

I can certainly understand the people who can't, just getting off a bad knee injury myself.
It's the ones who won't that I don't get.

[canid]

i'm with you, more or less, but i'm pretty gimpy myself [12 years of slow recovery from serious knee injury], and i'd still rather hike in a place not all cut up by OHV tracks.

in due fairness, i wouldn't mind seeing off-roaders with plenty of designated off-road trails for riding too, but my expectation would be that they wouldn't all be content to ride trails too well established, and the formation of such trails is the natural product of wheeled vehicle travel.

[LowKey]

I was sorta sidestepping that, not knowing what the avid ATV usage numbers were here.
The wheels do tend to tear up the vegetation etc. Not to mention, if you are really there to see the scenery, you have to stop once in a while and shut them off.

[canid]

as i see it; that wheeled vehicle travel causes significant disruption of soil and ground-cover or wild and mostly wild areas is beyond debate. that ATV fans need places to exercise their rights to get sideways on their toys is beyond debate, so i feel that the two places need to be kept, to at least some extent separate, in order to preserve both.

it seems to me that i've seen such a system in place in parks/forestry lands, where some areas are closed to OHV [and even bicycle] travel, and some areas are open.

i'd like to hear from some of the off-roaders, to see the range of thier thoughts on the matter. i hope the transparency of my own isn't a put off.

[finallyME]

Utah has a bunch of land dedicated to wheeled traffic. Most of it is out in the desert. Anything high is generally (with a few exceptions) already labeled as wilderness and off limits to wheeled traffic. Although I would rather see more walk only areas, Utah should decide, not the feds.

[kyratshooter]

Being from the east I have never been exposed to the concept of "public land" until I traveled west a couple of years back. Even on "public land" here in the east I must do this and I can not do that and I have to park right here and I can't build a fire unless it is a designated area.

Being able to drive 30 minutes outside Pheonix and shoot a rifle in any direction I desired was a new experience. No one called the police because on one was insight.

We are talking deep desert here. A day hike requires a 20 mule team with a water cart.

They intend to "preserve" the land all right. Perserve it for what? The people? Of course, we will preserve it for the use of the people by keeping everyone out of the area.

It is simply a bunch of government officials and clerks perpetuating their jobs.

[Rick]

And guess what? Signs like these mean "Hikers Only", not "Hikers Only except for you 'cause you're all special". Or..."Hikers Only except you and your crap making machine that you're riding". Or...."Hikers Only except you and your bike/ATV 'cause we ran out of room on the sign to give you special permission". It means (drum roll please) HIKERS ONLY!

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[trax]

So, Rick...are you trying to tell us that sign means hikers only? Well, thanks for clearing it up. that right there is how he got to be Minister of Science people. He earned it, no doubt, he earned it...

[Rick]

After stepping around tons of horse poo and dodging bikers on Hiker's Only trails I thought I'd post a public service since there appear to be a large number of folks out there that weren't aware that the sign meant HIKERS ONLY!

[Camp10]

An ATV is far more than a toy in my part of Maine. I understand plenty of people use them as toys but for me it is a form of transportation, like my truck. I like to hike also and I do quite a bit of it on the weekends but there are many places I like to spend time that you cant get to in a car, you'd think twice in your truck and you'd never make the trip in a weekend on foot.

If you dont live or play in big woods, it may be hard to appreciate the work a wheeler can get done. I've dragged several deer out on mine. I dont hunt with it but it is so much better than dragging a deer for a few miles when your hunting alone. The beaver pond I like to set up on for duck is a several hour hike from the nearest place you can get a truck to but a 20 minute ride on my ATV.

I dont ride it as a way to enjoy the outdoors as much as I use it as a tool because I want to enjoy the outdoors. I think that the amount of damage done to the land by a ATV can be controlled quite a bit by the rider. I dont buy overly aggressive tires, dont spin on the hills and stay on the trails when there are trails. I can tread very lightly on the land.

There are strong feelings on both sides of this debate up here and I respect the people who are against them as well. I've had bad experiences as a property owner but I've kept my land open to them.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Population density is the real problem. ATV's should be allowed, people just should not be allowed to breed.

[Rick]

So.....would that have been your advice to your mom 50+ years ago?

Hey, camp. When I worked outside I ran a 70 for a while. It was an articulated plow with a little bucket on the front. Anywhooo, that rascal had liquid filled tires and I could drive over the nicest grass and leave hardly a trace that I had been there. Obviously, it wasn't built for speed but do any of the ATVs run liquid in the tires where marring the ground is a problem?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

So.....would that have been your advice to your mom 50+ years ago?

Fives years worth of blogs that will change your thinking.

http://survivalacres.com/wordpress/

[BENESSE]

Population density is the real problem. ATV's should be allowed, people just should not be allowed to breed.

Here's what else is a real problem:
Too much traffic on the streets, all sorts of wheeled contraptions on the pavement interfering with pedestrians--bicycles, electric and push scooters, skate boards, in line skates and baby strollers.
Wilderness trails are the last refuge left to those who wish to enjoy some piece and quiet and commune with nature while getting around on their own two legs? I thought you of all people AS, would support that.
Is all this talk about getting back to basics and the way things used to be just jive?

[Rick]

No thanks. That's just more of the same stuff mankind has been dealing with since day 1. People starve to death today. They always have. Does population play into that? Only in terms of numbers. If a crop failed in 910, 60 people died. If a crop fails today 600 die or 6000 or 60,000 (depending on how large the crop is).

The truth is, we are not any different than any other animal or plant on the planet. Our sole purpose for being here is to replicate the specie. That, of course, is at our biological core. We're pretty successful at it but there are a lot of life forms more successful than us. Mosquitoes, flies and just about any other insect beats us hands down. Rabbits are pretty good at multiplying, too. I'm not sure about their other math skills.