Heatwave

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Several years ago we had a heat wave and it got up to 80 degrees! It was so hot I took a picture of the thermometer.

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Your body adapts to the temperatures you live at I have done concrete work shirtless at 20 degrees but at 80 I can barely move. I would be in a pool of sweat just sitting still at 100 degree temperatures and probably keel over if I moved. Getting your body used to the climate you expect to survive in will be critical to survival. I caught some critisism recently for stating fire was not that important to me but that needs to be put into the context of my acclamation to the cold. Living and working in the cold for over half a century and knowledge of what gear to use I can just plop down in the snow any where. Here I am where I had just woke up from sleeping. It was only -15 on this day but I have seen -80 with the wind blowing and have done it at those temperatures too.

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It is cheap oil that has enabled man to inhabit areas we would not be able in the numbers we could without it and while there are other ways we are all learning to cope with the adverse climates don't overlook your bodies ability to adapt over time. People need to get out of thier artificial environments more and get used to it. I have chosen the harshest environment around here to survive in when things get real bad. My plan is to hold the highground in mountainous Glaciers that drop of into the sea for food. Nothing lives there so few would ever go there but if they do I will be holding the high ground with a flat shooting rifle and impede thier progress farther than the environment alone could alone and while they have thier hands full just trying to survive I will just be sitting there comfortably and when the next morning comes I will just go down and pick over thier frozen carcuss for anything I can use. I know your environment may be different but getting used to it will advantage you in ways you may not have thought of yet.

[BENESSE]

So right AS.
Took me 6 yrs. to acclimate to the deep south temps. to where I could work in my yard in 100 degrees with heavy humidity and not keel over. NYC is tougher at the same temp. because of all the traffic, asphalt & concrete, but at least that's not the standard.
I would be happier in -10 in the snow on any day. Don't know about -80 though, that's beyond anything I can even imagine.

[Camp10]

actually it was a tree branch in my former home state of ohio that caused the sugre that resulted in the cascading power outages in whuch the power company leanred of their vunerabilities

Linework 101..

When transmission lines are overloaded, they will sag. If you have enough free time, you can measure this with a transit or by just finding a landmark that they cross and watching it's position with that landmark.

There was a 345K line here that was overloaded and the "fix" that the engineers came up with was to raise the wires 6 feet (I think it was 6 feet) instead of going with a larger wire size. With the extra height, they could run higher amps through it and it would still have the clearance that the line required.

In the case of the 2003 outage (I'm going from memory) ISO, the people who monitor useage and availability of electricity lost comunications with a relay and had some bad amperage readings (or no readings). This was only temporary but enough to result in a 345KV line being allowed to get overloaded. This caused the lines to sag and get close enough to the undergrowth to flash over.

Because it was a hot day, Amperage was already high on the grid. When this first line went down, the rest of the system attempted to pick up the load with the other lines and generation but the lines were close to overloaded already. This created more sag and caused a second line to get into the trees.

Because there is a power share grid and many of the power companies are tied together, this created a snowball effect and one by one overloaded and shut down the different generation plants and lines.

During the first few days there was all kinds of blame being passed and all kinds of stories resulted from this. The line that flashed over to ground was in Ohio and not Canada.

The resolutions to actually come from it were that many utilities (including the one I work for) were forced to improve their trimming programs and spend all kinds of money impoving their transmission structures and corridors.

Hot days put a strain on the components of a system and it also adds plenty of extra load. The combination, plus the loss of real time amp readings are what probably caused the blackout.

I really dont remember all the facts anymore so this is a watered down version to keep me from having to retract to much...

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Camp 10, That was interesting and surprizing I understood what you were talking about. How vulnerable do you think our grid is?

[huntermj]

Thanks Camp10, that was very informative. And i really wanted to blame Canada.

[Camp10]

Camp 10, That was interesting and surprizing I understood what you were talking about. How vulnerable do you think our grid is?

I think better now then before this happened. There were many utilities forced to make major upgrades to their system. I still think we are likely to see this happen every so often. The good news is that it shouldnt take as long to recognize what is happening and with some switching, the outages should be smaller and the recovery time should be quicker.

[Justin Case]

I dont get it ?????? on the news this morning, they said that the east coast is having toruble with power lines sagging way down and train rail expanding and slowing or stopping trains??? we do not have those problems here in AZ, where it gets a lot hotter, and in places like Flagstaff, they get the extremes between hot and cold ?? I just dont understand ??

[Ken]

Great explanation, Camp. Thanks!

[Rick]

Engineering requirements are a bit different so they would be taken into consideration. Not too likely New York will see 120°F where you might very well see it.

Camp, I think one of the changes, if I remember correctly, were changes in shut down procedures. I seem to remember that as lines overloaded an automated shutdown occurred to protect the grid. Changes were made after that outage so that didn't occur in the same way. That's completely by memory.

[Camp10]

I dont get it ?????? on the news this morning, they said that the east coast is having toruble with power lines sagging way down and train rail expanding and slowing or stopping trains??? we do not have those problems here in AZ, where it gets a lot hotter, and in places like Flagstaff, they get the extremes between hot and cold ?? I just dont understand ??

Flagstaff must not have the load issues that the east coast has. The outside temps are only a small factor in the lines, but it can effect them. I've seen wires pull out of their deadends in the very cold because they contract enough to get that tight. If you pull the crap out of new wire on a day like today, it just might be a problem when it drops to -20 or so.

Transmission lines are build following a sag chart. This is the amount of drop the wire has between structures. This distance is figured by the weight of the conductor size, the distance between structures, there is a weather factor and a load factor. If everything is built right then there shouldnt be an issue unless one or more of the factors are exceeded. The sagging lines are most likely because of all the extra load that these hot days put on the system.

[2dumb2kwit]

Flagstaff must not have the load issues that the east coast has. The outside temps are only a small factor in the lines, but it can effect them. I've seen wires pull out of their deadends in the very cold because they contract enough to get that tight. If you pull the crap out of new wire on a day like today, it just might be a problem when it drops to -20 or so.

Transmission lines are build following a sag chart. This is the amount of drop the wire has between structures. This distance is figured by the weight of the conductor size, the distance between structures, there is a weather factor and a load factor. If everything is built right then there shouldnt be an issue unless one or more of the factors are exceeded. The sagging lines are most likely because of all the extra load that these hot days put on the system.

I think I saw a chart something like that, about women ageing. LOL

[Camp10]

I think I saw a chart something like that, about women ageing. LOL

Same chart...When the conductors sag to the middle of the structure, we buy a sports car.

[rwc1969]

Not that I'm watching, but we broke 100 two days in a row now. Luckily the humidity is somewhat down.

I have good supply of sumac tea to keep me going.

[huntermj]

Due to the info Camp10 posted i started noticing the power lines that run out to the islands where i live. and "holy cow patties" the main lines are saging about 25 feet or so. i saw some that come off the main lines that are only about 5 feet off the ground. Wow!! i never saw that in colorado. and i never noticed it in the 30 years i lived in Ct. i'm glad i bought a generator. The temps are supposed to cool off a bit tommorow.

[Camp10]

Due to the info Camp10 posted i started noticing the power lines that run out to the islands where i live. and "holy cow patties" the main lines are saging about 25 feet or so. i saw some that come off the main lines that are only about 5 feet off the ground. Wow!! i never saw that in colorado. and i never noticed it in the 30 years i lived in Ct. i'm glad i bought a generator. The temps are supposed to cool off a bit tommorow.

That would bother me! They should never be that close to the ground no matter what. Something else might be wrong there. You may want to call them and report a low wire. It might turn out to be phone or cable but it is still worth having them check it out.

I had a guy from another district tell me they had a trouble call to check a low wire out behind a substation. When they got there, they found a covered wire we call tree wire with a large tree on it. The tree had brought it to about 3 feet off the ground and there was a young kid bouncing up and down on the tree! I think the voltage was 19,900 volts!! They went nuts and the kid ran off...no one was hurt that time!

[justin_baker]

Your body adapts to the temperatures you live at I have done concrete work shirtless at 20 degrees but at 80 I can barely move. I would be in a pool of sweat just sitting still at 100 degree temperatures and probably keel over if I moved. Getting your body used to the climate you expect to survive in will be critical to survival.

I know what you mean, but its the opposite. For the past month i have been working all day long in the sun in 95 degree weather. Its not uncomfortable at all, i can go all day long and i even take hikes sometimes after work.
But...... yesterday it became really cloudy and it was like 50 degrees. I shivered my butt off! I felt so cold! My body was so used to keeping itself cool that it forgot how to keep itself warm.

[Sourdough]

WOW, Burrrrrr......I just went outside and it is 38* above, I'll need a snowsuit for working this morning. Burrrrr

[crashdive123]

WOW, Burrrrrr......I just went outside and it is 38* above, I'll need a snowsuit for working this morning. Burrrrr

I do a lot of my projects on a half sheet of plywood on top of two saw horses in the back yard. No breeze today. I kept sweating on the leather.

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[Rick]

It's pretty bad here, too. I had to adjust the thermostat a few moments ago. Nice and comfy now.

[2dumb2kwit]

Around here, the temp dropped from triple digits, to the high 80's/low 90's, but the humidity has more than made up for it. Man, is it muggy, here.