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Thread: An interesting point of view

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    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Default An interesting point of view

    His last sentence is most telling

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/...ex.html?hpt=C1

    Salt Lake City, Utah (CNN) -- The executioner says he was eager to join the firing squad.

    Not because he was familiar with the 1996 case, or felt the need to deliver justice for a raped and murdered little girl.

    It wasn't even because his high school classmate was raped and killed just before graduation.

    So why did he do it? Why choose to join four other men in executing a convicted murderer?

    "How often does this come along?" he says, "... 100 percent justice."

    It's been more than 14 years since guns were last fired in Utah's execution chamber. But later this month, they may sound again, reviving a debate about the death penalty and the methods used to carry it out.

    The one-time executioner met a CNN reporter in a Salt Lake City restaurant Tuesday to talk about his former role as Utah prepares to put Ronnie Lee Gardner before a firing squad June 18.

    Gardner was convicted of killing attorney Michael Burdell in 1985 during an attempted escape from custody at a Salt Lake City courthouse, where he was appearing for a pre-trial hearing in connection with another murder. On Thursday, he will go before the state Board of Pardons and Parole in an effort to have his death penalty commuted.

    It was anti-climactic, another day at the office."

    The former firing squad member asked not to be named, as he remains a law enforcement officer in the state. The man he helped execute, John Albert Taylor, was sentenced to death for killing an 11-year-old girl in 1989. Charla Nicole King had been sexually assaulted. A telephone cord was wrapped around her neck -- three times, her mother told authorities. She knew because she counted as she unwound it, trying to revive her daughter

    The officer agreed to recount his experience because he believes in the death penalty -- and thinks the firing squad method is plagued by misconceptions.

    It is not like the scenes depicted in movies, with a condemned man tied to a stake and smoking a last cigarette before being riddled with bullets in a gruesome spectacle. Instead, he says over coffee, toast with grape jelly and an omelet, the process is instantaneous and carried out with the utmost professionalism.

    "It was anti-climactic," he says. "Another day at the office."

    He has brought with him a stack of photos from Taylor's autopsy, including one of the man's heart, blown into three pieces.

    Does he have any lingering effects from his role in the execution?

    "I've shot squirrels I've felt worse about," he says. He volunteered to participate, he said, and would do so again, given the opportunity.

    "There's just some people," he says, "we need to kick off the planet."

    The officer remembers feeling a sense of responsibility that day, as he awaited the countdown to fire at Taylor, strapped into a chair 17 feet away with a target pinned to his chest.

    He remembers telling himself, "Don't (expletive) this up."

    There's just some people we need to kick off the planet.

    The five men selected for the firing squad had been given a month to prepare. They practiced their shooting in the execution chamber.

    On the day of the execution, four of the five were armed with live rounds. The fifth received an "ineffective" round that, unlike a blank, delivers the same recoil as a live round. No one knew who had the ineffective round.

    Two alternate marksmen were on standby -- one to replace an officer who loses his nerve (none did) and a second to replace the alternate.

    At the designated time, the five fired simultaneously. Only one shot was heard.

    "They don't want to hear five shots," the officer said.

    The former executioner has brought someone with him to the interview: Chris Zimmerman, once the police chief in Roy, Utah, who investigated the King slaying, interrogated Taylor, arrested him and witnessed his execution.

    Zimmerman recalls seeing Taylor clench his fists as a reflex. His chest rose, and then sunk.

    "The process was not gruesomely bloody, nor was it slow. "We were there, and it's not that way," the officer said.

    He remembers getting home at 3 a.m. -- Utah executions are conducted just after midnight. Five hours later, he was kicking in a door to serve a search warrant.

    A coworker who recently had struggled after shooting a suspect approached him to make sure he was OK, the officer said. But a police shooting, where an officer must make a split-second decision, is "a whole different world," he said. "I'm going .... 'Look, man, this is nothing like what you went through.'

    "I do not want to downplay in any way what real cops do in real shootings."

    Charla Nicole King's death ... was cruel and unusual. What we did to him was not.

    Zimmerman points out that an officer who saw Taylor running from the murder scene with a gun and shot him would have been considered a hero. "Both ways, we killed him," he said.

    He remembers King's mother telling investigators of finding her daughter's body and trying to resuscitate her before realizing it was fruitless, gently unwrapping the cord from the girl's neck.

    "That woman has to live with that the rest of her life, and John Albert Taylor was put to death in seconds," Zimmerman said.

    The officer points out that both Gardner and another death-row inmate in Utah, Troy Kell, were already in custody when they killed again. Gardner was charged with killing bartender Melvyn Otterstrom in October 1984; Kell was serving time for murder when he killed another inmate in a Utah prison.

    No one executed for their crime, the officer points out, has ever killed again.

    It seems to be quite effective," he says. "Nobody's heard from Gary Gilmore," the first person executed after the Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment in 1976. Gilmore died by firing squad at the Utah State Prison in 1977.

    "You'll notice this didn't take two and a half hours," he says, referring to a recent execution in Ohio, where personnel had trouble finding a vein on an inmate to administer a lethal injection.

    "The death penalty," the officer says, "is nothing more than sending a defective product back to the manufacturer. Let him fix it."

    Asked about the arguments against the death penalty -- that one race receives it disproportionately, that the poor are more likely to wind up on death row -- the officer discounts them as procedural issues that should be fixed in the courts, not the execution chamber.

    The death penalty is nothing more than sending a defective product back to the manufacturer.

    As soon as the death penalty is discarded, he believes, those same arguments will be turned against the alternative -- life in prison without the possibility of parole.

    And, he and Zimmerman say, polls show that most Americans support the death penalty. "The pulse of America is, 'Look, we're tired of this stuff,'" the officer says.

    Utah was given permission to use the firing squad as a method of execution by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1879, according to the Death Penalty Information Center, a non-profit organization. Although one other state -- Oklahoma -- currently allows firing squad as a secondary method of execution, it can be used only if lethal injection and electrocution are ruled unconstitutional.

    Firing squads are still in use in other countries; according to the Capital Punishment UK website, they are steadily declining. The site says there were 30 such executions worldwide in 2007 -- 15 in Afghanistan, one each in Belarus, Ethiopia, Indonesia and North Korea, three in Somalia and eight in Yemen. Some provinces in China are also thought to use the method.

    Utah lawmakers outlawed the firing squad in 2004, but a handful of death-row inmates who had already chosen it as their execution method were grandfathered in after family members of murder victims begged the state Legislature not to open another door for appeals, lengthening what in many cases has become at least a 20-year wait for justice.

    "The appeals process is a little out of control," the officer said. "Get it done in a couple of years and move on."

    Asked about cases in which people are freed from prison after being proved innocent, the officer says he doubts there have been innocent people executed since 1976. It's hard to convict someone and put them on death row, he says, and it's harder to keep them there through numerous appeals. That process minimizes the risk of the innocent being executed, he says.

    Taylor's death, the officer says, was a homicide in that it came at the hands of others. But it was not murder, he maintains, and the death penalty "needs to be used more often."

    "I haven't lost three seconds of sleep over it," he says. "... it's true justice."
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    Interesting, Thanks for sharing, The only thing I disagree with about the Death Penalty is the time it takes to carry out the sentence,

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    I support the DP 100%. And in cases where there is overwhelming evidence it ought to be swifter.

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    Senior Member Camp10's Avatar
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    No one executed for their crime, the officer points out, has ever killed again.

    This has got to be the best line of the story IMO!

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    Crazy Utahans. Who would want to live there? Well, I seem to like it more and more.
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    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    I'm torn over this issue. I support the death penalty, with some conditions.

    In fact, in some instances, I don't believe that ANY FORM of punishment or execution, no matter how gruesome or painful or prolonged or tortured, could be considered cruel and unusual. The punishment should AT LEAST be as bad as the crime.

    My problem is that the legal system is not even close to fair - in spite of most people who claim and believe that defendants have far too many rights, the complete opposite is true. The system is so terribly one sided in favor of the prosecution that many innocent people have been convicted of crimes of which they were innocent. I could write a book on this topic.

    EVERY criminal trial - Dream-Team defense or not - is a David vs. Goliath event. No defendant can begin to muster the resources that the government can bring to a trial.

    The rules of evidence - even the law in many cases - prevents the defense from discovering significant evidence in advance of trial, and even goes so far as to PREVENT the jury from hearing undisputed facts and testimony which would often cast the government's evidence in grave doubt or otherwise prove the defendant's innocence. The government can offer "rewards and inducements" to gain testimony from witnesses - but even questioning a government witness in advance of trial can lead to charges of "witness intimidation" against the defense.

    I can give countless examples of how criminal law and procedure almost always favors the prosecution over the defense. You may think that's okay - unless you're an innocent defendant as your case is being tried before a jury. Proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt becomes much easier when the prosecution has almost every advantage to begin with.

    And look at this quote from the article and the source from which it came:

    "Asked about cases in which people are freed from prison after being proved innocent, the officer says he doubts there have been innocent people executed since 1976. It's hard to convict someone and put them on death row, he says, and it's harder to keep them there through numerous appeals. That process minimizes the risk of the innocent being executed," he says.

    The man is living in a dream world if he believes this. Look at how many innocent people have been freed from death row in recent years through "The Innocence Project." Do you honestly believe that they reached every innocent person on death row BEFORE they were executed?

    And what kind of sick mind does it take to save autopsy pictures of the blown apart heart of an executed man for 30 years? By what authority and means did this guy even get them in the first place?

    The death penalty is clearly a valid form of punishment. However. it should require a degree of proof far beyond merely "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" as well as a thorough review of ALL OF THE EVIDENCE OFFERED AT TRIAL, WHETHER OR NOT THE EVIDENCE MADE IT'S WAY TO THE JURY, by a neutral post trial panel in a manner entirely distinct from the cursory review often made by appeals courts.

    Eye witness testimony and identification have been proven to be wildly innacurate time after time. Scientific evidence has often been shown to be questionable at best. Couple this with the fact that a majority of today's judges were career prosecutors who are now ruling on the admissibility of evidence and testimony, and the last place you want to be is in the defendant's seat if your innocent of the crime as charged.

    That's why innocent people are convicted of crimes they did not commit every day, and some of them just happen to be convicted of murders they did not commit. Let's not execute them in out haste to move the system along.
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    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    Interesting, Thanks for sharing, The only thing I disagree with about the Death Penalty is the time it takes to carry out the sentence,
    That can be clearly put on the LAWYERS for milking the system.

    Unrealistic appeals! if I have three witnesses and they all said he did it, I want a DRIVE THRU on death row to speed up the process.

    IMO and I approve this message,
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

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    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    That can be clearly put on the LAWYERS for milking the system.

    Unrealistic appeals! if I have three witnesses and they all said he did it, I want a DRIVE THRU on death row to speed up the process.

    IMO and I approve this message,
    With all due respect, you may think that you do, but in fact you know nothing about the "system," it's failures and shortcomings, or how it really functions. If you did, you wouldn't have posted that.
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    I don't think I would have it any other way, actually. When seeking the death penalty the state (us) wants to make as certain as possible that the right person is being executed and that all evidence has been heard and all appeals exhausted. Sure, it's drawn out and expensive but we are talking about a human life. A mistake is irreversible.
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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    But in cases where there's no doubt as in Ft. Hood massacre what's the point of protraction?

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    He still has rights. As much as I don't like that, it's the way this country was founded and that's how we operate. How can we pick and choose who receives fundamental rights?
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    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    But in cases where there's no doubt as in Ft. Hood massacre what's the point of protraction?
    We can't short circuit the trial process or the appeals process. Do it once, and it wil happen more and more often until the concept of due process becomes meaningless.

    However, convincing evidence beyond ANY DOUBT and certainly beyond that required to satisfy our "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard would clearly seem to exist in the Hood Massacre case. Torture the ba$tard.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You are such a jokester.
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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Sorry, didn't make myself clear.
    Absolutely award him the same process but once he is convicted, simply execute him without delay.

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    I used to be a hard line, hell yeah death penalty guy. But, I have seen and read to much to believe that the system has even reasonable measures to ensure only guilty people die.

    I am pro death penalty in cases where over whelming evidence shows undeniable guilt. Unfortunately, the a large portion of those are plead out to life without parole.

    Its also been reported that the death penalty is not a deterrent. The knuckle heads that commit these crimes don't think they'll be caught and so damn the consequences.

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batch View Post
    I used to be a hard line, hell yeah death penalty guy. But, I have seen and read to much to believe that the system has even reasonable measures to ensure only guilty people die.

    I am pro death penalty in cases where over whelming evidence shows undeniable guilt. Unfortunately, the a large portion of those are plead out to life without parole.

    Its also been reported that the death penalty is not a deterrent.
    The knuckle heads that commit these crimes don't think they'll be caught and so damn the consequences.
    I see it as punishment.

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    It may not be a deterrent for others, but it sure as heck stops repeat offenses.
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    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Assuming all safeguards are met , and is beyond a reasonable doubt (ala Ft Hood), I consider it a cleansing of the gene pool and relieves society of the concern about that person being a repeat offender. I have no real reason to believe it is a deterent to others and don't really care either.
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    Senior Member Ole WV Coot's Avatar
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    The punishment should fit the crime and if convicted don't be so damn humane when it comes to execution. If a child molester/killer is proven guilty I have no objection and will volunteer to make their last hours begging for a quick death. Good men have been murdered because of just being an American so why do we have to be the good guys? All this talk about killing an innocent person, well I bet that "person" if they have been in and out of the system have probably done something, maybe a very slim chance of being innocent of this one crime but deserving to be taken out permanently. A criminal can cause misery and grief without killing a person and in my "not politically correct" opinion they should be removed from society. I have my unpopular opinion and I can think of many cases recently that I would gladly pop a cap on if they were going to be released again.
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    I am pro death penalty in cases where over whelming evidence shows undeniable guilt. Unfortunately, the a large portion of those are plead out to life without parole.
    Any direct responses to this?

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