BP Oil

[BENESSE]

No....I'm saying that I don't want to give up everything now, without a damn good reason. I'm also saying that some are asking others to give up far more than is gained, from their suffering. I'm saying that a lot of this stuff, is like asking someone to give up $100 to save someone else $20.

Don't know who's asking, but it ain't me.

[HeritageFarm]

would it be better to produce it like you want, and some people would just have to starve to death, because there isn't enough food?

I've always heard plenty of this Starving World stuff, and I have no clue where it comes from. A lot of countries starve because of overpopulation - so maybe they should stop reproducing like rabbits. "Hey, our country's starving 'cause there's too many people - let's produce some more!" As well, America produces an EXCESS of food. The reason corn is so cheap is because the market is so flooded the Gov has [chooses] to subsidize corn, milk, whatever.

[Rick]

Not 'Zactly. The coal/gas fired plants are already on line. Why assume you have to build more to back up wind power? As you add wind power you begin to shut down coal/gas generators. That doesn't mean you tear them down. You use them to augment power as needed. So the cost for wind is wind and the cost for coal is coal and neither the twain shall meat.

HeritageFarm - I guess corrupt governments, war, genocide, poverty, geography and weather don't play a role in starvation in third wold countries?

[HeritageFarm]

HeritageFarm - I guess corrupt governments, war, genocide, poverty, geography and weather don't play a role in starvation in third wold countries?

Sure. But mega-farms aren't the answer.

[crashdive123]

Sure. But mega-farms aren't the answer.

Why not?

.

[Rick]

They have been to date. There are the sole reason this country has been able to produce as much excess food as it has. Gentleman farms are great but they can't produce the kind of food that keeps a country running.....er, uh.....eating. According to the 1990 census about 75% of the folks in the U.S. live in an urban setting. Not much way for them to grow their own food on a sustainable level.

[HeritageFarm]

The run off of fertilizers runs out into the oceans through stream. N is good in small amounts, but large amounts cause certain species to thrive in the water, canceling out others. The pesticides are obviously dangerous, continually resulting in residues on the produce, not to mention resulting in environmental pollution. (If you like to fish, hunt, whatever, you should be concerned about that) Not to mention huge farms require huge machinery, all too often sinking farmers deep into debt, so they die penniless. Several mega farmers have said they could make the same amount of money off 1,000 acres as 100 acres.
There's the fact that most farmers farm a certain area until the soil is basically a desert, requiring more fertilizers. Nature abhors monocultures, positively abhors. To them, crop rotation is a waste of time. So their field is depleted. So much for those great nutrient dense GMOs, the plant can only, repeat only, be as good as the soil. When there are only 3 nutrients in the soil, not very nutritious is it?
Then there is the hidden influences from mega corporations such as Cargill, advocates for mega-farming to get the price of commodities down. Once the price is down, farmers have to produce more to make the same amount of money.

Then it has to be shipped all over the place, resulting in oil dependence. It has to be driven, packaged, grown, fertilizers are shipped around, and pesticides, they're shipped to you and you ship them home.
Not a pretty picture.

[crashdive123]

The run off of fertilizers runs out into the oceans through stream. N is good in small amounts, but large amounts cause certain species to thrive in the water, canceling out others. The pesticides are obviously dangerous, continually resulting in residues on the produce, not to mention resulting in environmental pollution. (If you like to fish, hunt, whatever, you should be concerned about that) Not to mention huge farms require huge machinery, all too often sinking farmers deep into debt, so they die penniless. Several mega farmers have said they could make the same amount of money off 1,000 acres as 100 acres.
There's the fact that most farmers farm a certain area until the soil is basically a desert, requiring more fertilizers. Nature abhors monocultures, positively abhors. To them, crop rotation is a waste of time. So their field is depleted. So much for those great nutrient dense GMOs, the plant can only, repeat only, be as good as the soil. When there are only 3 nutrients in the soil, not very nutritious is it?
Then there is the hidden influences from mega corporations such as Cargill, advocates for mega-farming to get the price of commodities down. Once the price is down, farmers have to produce more to make the same amount of money.

Then it has to be shipped all over the place, resulting in oil dependence. It has to be driven, packaged, grown, fertilizers are shipped around, and pesticides, they're shipped to you and you ship them home.
Not a pretty picture.

Fact or opinion? If not the latter - source?

[2dumb2kwit]

The run off of fertilizers runs out into the oceans through stream. N is good in small amounts, but large amounts cause certain species to thrive in the water, canceling out others. The pesticides are obviously dangerous, continually resulting in residues on the produce, not to mention resulting in environmental pollution. (If you like to fish, hunt, whatever, you should be concerned about that) Not to mention huge farms require huge machinery, all too often sinking farmers deep into debt, so they die penniless. Several mega farmers have said they could make the same amount of money off 1,000 acres as 100 acres.
There's the fact that most farmers farm a certain area until the soil is basically a desert, requiring more fertilizers. Nature abhors monocultures, positively abhors. To them, crop rotation is a waste of time. So their field is depleted. So much for those great nutrient dense GMOs, the plant can only, repeat only, be as good as the soil. When there are only 3 nutrients in the soil, not very nutritious is it?
Then there is the hidden influences from mega corporations such as Cargill, advocates for mega-farming to get the price of commodities down. Once the price is down, farmers have to produce more to make the same amount of money.

Then it has to be shipped all over the place, resulting in oil dependence. It has to be driven, packaged, grown, fertilizers are shipped around, and pesticides, they're shipped to you and you ship them home.
Not a pretty picture.

Stop drinking the kool-aide, and do some real research. While some of what you say is true, it's a small portion of the real world.

You don't know many farmers....do you?

[crashdive123]

Now, now there 2D - be nice.

[2dumb2kwit]

Now, now there 2D - be nice.

You're right, crash....that was kinda rude, of me.

I apologize, HF......I just get really tired of groups cherry picking a few bad issues, and making people think that those issues are the norm, when they are really a very small portion, of the truth.

It also gets very old, hearing people repeat those talking points, as if they are the only "facts", when in reality, they don't know the facts.....so, if this is not the case, with you...then I'm sorry for what I said.

[HeritageFarm]

You're right, crash....that was kinda rude, of me.

I apologize, HF......I just get really tired of groups cherry picking a few bad issues, and making people think that those issues are the norm, when they are really a very small portion, of the truth.

It also gets very old, hearing people repeat those talking points, as if they are the only "facts", when in reality, they don't know the facts.....so, if this is not the case, with you...then I'm sorry for what I said.

All right, thank-you. If you'd like to tell me what you mean....
"Do you know any farmers?"
Yes, plenty. Most have a small cow herd, and take then to the auction barns where they are usually bought by large feedlots.

[HeritageFarm]

Fact or opinion? If not the latter - source?

Many...The Omnivore's Delemma by Micheal Pollan,
also this
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7470879/Ca...#fullscreen:on
And lots of others. The big-verus-small quote was from the Contrary Farmer. Page 41.

[2dumb2kwit]

Many...The Omnivore's Delemma by Micheal Pollan,
also this
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7470879/Ca...#fullscreen:on
And lots of others. The big-verus-small quote was from the Contrary Farmer. Page 41.

OK...now I know where you're coming from.

Micheal pollan....he also wrote "In Defense of Food: An Eater’s Manifesto".
Funny, he used the word "manifesto" in that title.

Nice shirt, he has on in this picture.

[2dumb2kwit]

All right, thank-you. If you'd like to tell me what you mean....
"Do you know any farmers?"
Yes, plenty. Most have a small cow herd, and take then to the auction barns where they are usually bought by large feedlots.

You wrote..

There's the fact that most farmers farm a certain area until the soil is basically a desert, requiring more fertilizers. Nature abhors monocultures, positively abhors. To them, crop rotation is a waste of time. So their field is depleted. So much for those great nutrient dense GMOs, the plant can only, repeat only, be as good as the soil. When there are only 3 nutrients in the soil, not very nutritious is it?

I'm in northeastern NC. Let's just say, that I'm exposed to a few farmers, and a few acres of farm land, and none of them fit your discription.

[hoosierarcher]

Pay little heed to the doom and gloom merchants(the mass media). They are not in the hope or "look on bright" business. The bay wherein the Exxon Valdez spill happened was cleaned up and back to normal in under 10 years. When all the "experts" the mass media could get to talk at the time predicted it would take anywhere from 25 to 100 years for the area to recover. It happened so fast for two main reasons. First Exxon and US taxpayers paid a lot of money to have people there cleaning and second and much more important the Earth cleans itself. Oceans have a way of "digesting" crude oil.
BP will get this plugged sooner rather than later and both human and natural cleaning efforts will repair the damage. Take a chill pill and quit believing everything the so called news agencies tell you.

[HeritageFarm]

You wrote..

I'm in northeastern NC. Let's just say, that I'm exposed to a few farmers, and a few acres of farm land, and none of them fit your discription.

There are small farms. I just am talking about mega-farms, and why they are unsustainable. Do you even know what a mega-farm is, or a CAFO? Just because there isn't one in your area doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Your first post: Your point?

[2dumb2kwit]

There are small farms. I just am talking about mega-farms, and why they are unsustainable. Do you even know what a mega-farm is, or a CAFO? Just because there isn't one in your area doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Your first post: Your point?

Yes....I do. Do you know that...

According to recent statistics provided by the American Farm Bureau, 98% of American farms are family farms – only 2% are owned by non-family corporations.

Yet you try to make it sound like most farms are these mega-farms.

[2dumb2kwit]

Your first post: Your point?

In my opinion, it speaks volumes about how you think. Now I have a better idea of the type of person I'm talking to.

[HeritageFarm]

I just took another look at that picture, and it has been photo edited. I edit photos, and that image DOES NOT follow the shirt shadow contour.