Congress Approved Health Care Bill

[mountain mama]

laws were made to be broken.....errrr repealed...and this one is as UNCONSTITUTIONAL as they come.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...5GKEQD9EGLNDO0
expect more to come...

[Justin Case]

laws were made to be broken.....errrr repealed...and this one is as UNCONSTITUTIONAL as they come.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...5GKEQD9EGLNDO0
expect more to come...

You should actually READ your article,

"Constitutional law experts say the movement is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states".

Looks to me like more waste of YOUR tax dollars.

BTW, Been to Boise, Loved that place Beautiful !

[2dumb2kwit]

How's this, for helping the poor and old?

To pay for the changes, the legislation includes more than $400 billion in higher taxes over a decade and cuts more than $500 billion from planned payments to hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other providers that treat Medicare patients.

How many people will suffer, from a $500 billion dollar cut, to medicare?

[mountain mama]

We still have the opportunity to vote these clowns out of office and repeal the law. The symbolism is showing what we really want as a country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orTEyYR87iI
"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it" - Santayana

Yes, Boise is beautiful, as are SunValley, McCall, and Coeur d'Alene. It's no Texas, but I do love this state and at least our leaders know how to vote lol

And for your entertainment and viewing pleasure (to make you happy lol), I will leave you with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ_tAe87ELo

[Justin Case]

We still have the opportunity to vote these clowns out of office and repeal the law. The symbolism is showing what we really want as a country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orTEyYR87iI
"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it" - Santayana

Yes, Boise is beautiful, as are SunValley, McCall, and Coeur d'Alene. It's no Texas, but I do love this state and at least our leaders know how to vote lol

And for your entertainment and viewing pleasure (to make you happy lol), I will leave you with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ_tAe87ELo

LOL, Good Luck !

[Justin Case]

How's this, for helping the poor and old?



How many people will suffer, from a $500 billion dollar cut, to medicare?

c'mon, Lets go fishin'

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[mountain mama]

Now that's the pursuit of happiness I'm talkin' about!

[trax]

...... This is not the time for happiness unless it is drug induced. ...... I'm old school and still prefer whiskey.

See! See??? I TOLD you guys I TOLD you!!! drugs and whiskey....steer ya right every time.

[Sarge47]

I will be starting a new thread later today to educate the membership on how Health Insurance works. I will desperately try to keep the politics out of it.

[Rick]

Let's get away from inflamed passions and talk real numbers for a moment.

The new law will increase the Medicare payroll tax by 0.9 percentage points to 2.35 percent on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly.

A new 3.8 percent tax will be imposed on interest, dividends, capital gains and other investment income for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and couples making more than $250,000.

When fully phased in, 94 percent of eligible non-elderly Americans would have coverage, compared with 83 percent today.

So those making more than $200,000 a year will, in effect, pay for for an additional 11% to have insurance.

For all those complaining that you pay taxes....so do the folks over $200,000 a year. How is that fair? (rhetorical)

Total cost to taxpayers in the first ten years, $938 billion according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Companies with more than 50 employees with get hit with a $2000 per employee fee if the government has to provide any portion of the health care. That's a small business by anyone's standards.

Louisiana retains a sweet heart deal in the program worth over $300 million to that state that all taxpayers will pay for.

I would urge you to stop talking about what your heart feels and look at what your wallet will feel. Ask yourself why this legislation was pushed for so vehemently. Do you think it was pushed because the government loves you?

Sourdough - You and the geese need to move over. I'm in your corner now.

In other news....

Authored by Senator A.G. Crowe and pre-filed for the 2010 Legislative Session, the Louisiana Health Care Freedom Act is a proposal to protect the freedom of Louisiana citizens from the currently proposed national health care by rendering it null and void.

Based on the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, Senator Crowe states that the proposed national health care legislation is a violation of the US Constitution in a number of ways and has sent a letter to Attorney General Buddy Caldwell for an opinion.

Nullification is the constitutional theory that gives an individual state the right to declare null and void any law passed by the United States Congress that the state deems unacceptable and unconstitutional. According to The Tenth Amendment Center, Louisiana is not alone in its efforts, as some 30 other states have also introduced resolutions or bills that would nullify federal laws.

This includes the 2009 passing of SCR 2, affirming Louisiana’s sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment, by both the House and Senate with overwhelming majorities.

The battle may not be over. It may now be fought on a state by state basis.

[mountain mama]

I do and so does my family. Big business doesn't. They get their resources from us, for free. Big business gets free money from govt, our tax dollars, to move business overseas and to charge us too much for or deny us health care we are willing to pay for.

I think it's funny how conservatives and big business cry about freeloaders when they are the biggest freeloaders of all. Anyone with common sense who can make heads and tails of what really is going on knows that.

I am conservative and am anything but a "freeloader". Funny thing, Obama is the one who bailed out the big banks and lenders with trillions of OUR tax.....errrrr CHINA's money.

[Justin Case]

I am conservative and am anything but a "freeloader". Funny thing, Obama is the one who bailed out the big banks and lenders with trillions of OUR tax.....errrrr CHINA's money.

[your_comforting_company]

I think you're missing something, here. What you are against, is exactly what they just voted for more of. ... They just want control of the money and power.

The bill that they passed won't get everyone that needs it, that $5k car. Most of the people that will get that $5k car, won't get it for years, and by the way...after all the BS that is in the bill, that car now cost $35K, and they are going to take that $35k from others, by force.

Those of us that are against this thing, aren't saying that we don't want to help those who need the $5k car....we're just saying that we don't want someone taking $35k from us, so that they can control $35k, and may or may not help those who need it.

I understand exactly what you are saying and totally agree with you. you just further supported my argument that it needs to happen. Not the health care, the economic collapse. No I don't agree that the money should come from someone else. As individuals, we should all pay the same tax, i.e., pay our fair share and each should benefit equally.. but we all know it'll never happen till the bigwigs go play in someone elses sandbox.
like I said:

This economy needs to be destroyed. The American Dream is what's killing this country, not health care reform.

Me and rwc are apparently in the same boat.. My kids do without field trips, haircuts from the barber shop, movie rentals.. we sacrifice some things to have a better way of life. I'm happy to have groceries to eat that I procured on my own through labor and hunting, and a roof over my head. Since I won't be getting any health care anyway, the rest of it doesn't even matter. There are many more viable solutions to the problem, but I don't remember even getting the chance to vote on this thing.. by the people, for the people, my @$$. Big business runs big government and I just want out. I'd die happily from whatever disease takes me out of this world if I could really be free from this economic fat-cat system.
Maybe I am too proud to ask for a handout. Maybe I was just taught different. A Charlie Daniels song comes to mind... Sure, I could sit on my butt and cry "poor me!" but instead of waiting for a handout, I go out there and do for myself. How many people on welfare are actually capable of growing their own gardens? hunting and eating squirrels and birds? Deer? Because they CAN get a handout, they do. Come to the slum-side of my town and look at how many able bodied people just walk the streets all day, sucking on lollipops and ice cream cones. They live better than I do and I work all day. IT AIN'T RIGHT!!
All I'm saying is there is something wrong, and if it takes bankrupting the government for everyone to wake-up and learn to do for themselves or do without, then so be it.
The issue for me isn't really health care at all. It's the way these morons are spending our hard earned tax dollars to bail out companies that aren't even in economic crisis. We needed health care reform a long time ago and these idiots chose to bail out companies that already have money." Got Money? Here's more! Don't worry, we took it from the folks that are poor anyway, so they won't know the difference".

It's the money, and the power to control it that is the problem. What are we gonna do when China decides it's time to repay that debt?

[your_comforting_company]

and for God's sake, WHY DOES EVERY SIMPLE BILL THAT GOES ACROSS THE TABLE HAVE 10 LITTLE SIDE EXPENSES TAGGED TO IT?
baby steps... One thing at a time.

[your_comforting_company]

and for the record, I priced health insurance for my family a few months ago and I can't afford that either. I can't possibly be required to have something I can't afford. That's like telling someone they HAVE to eat at McDonalds twice a week.
2D from now on you HAVE TO pay bogus insurance companies for coverage you may or may not even use. That's why I dropped my health insurance when I worked for a real company and punched a clock. over $350 a month for coverage I might use once every two years.. Cheaper to just be sick.

I'm done with this debate now, too. the whole thing makes me sick and I don't want to think about it anymore. Might have been different if we the people actually got the opportunity to VOTE on this law. Seems we get denied that right every time something important comes up.
Sure, we voted for wealthy legislators to represent us, but they have no idea where I'm coming from.. they cannot possibly represent my best interests, only theirs.

[2dumb2kwit]

I know everyone is tired of hearing it, but the answer is at the ballot box.

I won't say A is right, or B is right, but which one we chose doesn't matter, unless you show up and vote for it.

Those able bodied people that are sucking on lillypops and ice cream cones, are voting for what they want.

[Sarge47]

I know everyone is tired of hearing it, but the answer is at the ballot box.

I won't say A is right, or B is right, but which one we chose doesn't matter, unless you show up and vote for it.

Those able bodied people that are sucking on lillypops and ice cream cones, are voting for what they want.

Agreed! Now the backlash!

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/03/22...ainst-demcare/

http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...ad.php?t=96919
It ain't over 'till it's over!

[Rick]

I've just figured this thing out. No, really, I have. Health care reform is designed to provide health care to the poor. They're going to tax us until we're all poor so we'll all qualify. It's actually quite brilliant in a sadistic, cruel sort of way.

[Ken]

Sarge, one should never confuse a "policy debate" with a legally sustainable challenge. Simply because something may be bad policy does not make it ripe for a challenge on Constitutional grounds.

I doubt that legal opposition to this legislation based on the Commerce Clause will fly with the Supreme Court. Here are some relevant Constitutional and Bill of Rights provisions to consider:

Article I., Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; (First Clause)
.......................................
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; (Third Clause - words in bold are the "Commerce Clause")


Many legal scholars interpret the "General Welfare Clause" in strict terms related only to the general welfare of the nation, insofar as it is tied to the "common defense" language. The strict interpretation would, for example, authorize the establishment of the F.B.I. among countless other federal agencies. Other scholars interpret it in far broader terms, which would include authority to establish national health care for the individual. Such has been the case in the past with the enactment of the Social Security program, Medicare/Medicaid, educational funding, etc, etc., etc. All have survived judicial review.

The "Commerce Clause" has also been interpreted liberally, almost without exception, and could easily (and most probably will) be interpreted to include authorization for Congress to enact national health insurance simply because citizens of the various states get sick or injured and otherwise obtain medical care outside of their state of domicile.

The Ninth and Tenth Amendments provide additional, although weak, grounds for further legal challenges to national health care.

Ninth Amendment - Rights retained by the People
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment - States' rights
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That being said, the attorneys general of the various states that will challenge this legislation in the manner suggested appear to be grasping at straws.

My legal opinion, based solely upon substantial legal precedent, is that the National Health Care Law will be found to be a Constitutional excercise of authority by the federal government.

[crashdive123]

I know that this is a passionate discussion, no matter which side of the debate you are on. For the most part I think that people have stayed within the bounds of the rules – well maybe sticking a tow or two across the line. Maybe if we drop the democrat/republican or conservative/liberal tags we could bring those tows back.

Here are some things to consider. It sounds as though some feel that health care is a right. Is it? Here is a pretty concise definition of a right.

A right is the sovereignty to act without the permission of others. The concept of a right carries with it an implicit, unstated footnote: you may exercise your rights as long as you do not violate the same rights of another—within this context, rights are an absolute.
A right is universal—meaning: it applies to all men, not just to a few. There is no such thing as a "right" for one man, or a group of men, that is not possessed by all. This means there are no special "rights" unique to women or men, blacks or white, the elderly or the young, homosexuals or heterosexuals, the rich or the poor, doctors or patients or any other group.
A right must be exercised through your own initiative and action. It is not a claim on others. A right is not actualized and implemented by the actions of others. This means you do not have the right to the time in another person’s life. You do not have a right to other people’s money. You do not have the right to another person’s property. If you wish to acquire some money from another person, you must earn it—then you have a right to it. If you wish to gain some benefit from the time of another person’s life, you must gain it through the voluntary cooperation of that individual—not through coercion. If you wish to possess some item of property of another individual, you must buy it on terms acceptable to the owner—not gain it through theft.

If one were to look at the Bill of Rights (1st 10 Amendments of the Constitution), they all fit into the above definition. Mandated healthcare however cannot be exercised unless the full force and power of the government takes the property of others to provide it. If it is a right – then doctors must provide free health care. I would ask those that believe it is a right this – How much is OK for the government to take from individuals (taking part of their life) in order to provide others with rights? How much of a doctor’s life is it OK to confiscate in order to provide those rights.

Here’s a few items that are in the health care bill that you may not have been aware of:
Page 30, Sec 123 – There will be a gov committee that decides what treatments/benefits you get
Page 42 = The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your benefits.
Page 59 – The gov will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer
Page 149 – Any employer with a payroll above $401K who does not provide public option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll
Page 150 – A business with payroll between $251K and $401K who does not provide public options will pay a payroll tax between 2% and 6%.
Page 167 – Any individual that does not have acceptable health care coverage will be taxed at 2.5% of total income.
Page 239 – Gov will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors.
Page 253 – The gov sets the value of a doctor’s time, profession, judgement, etc.
It goes on and on. You can say that the arguments that say choices are taken away are propaganda. I would urge you to read the bill.

A few other things to consider – In order to get the GAO (Government Accounting Office) to score the bill at under 1 trillion dollars over ten years – the taxes start now – the benefits start in four years. If you add in the other bills that are going to hit – like doc fix (puts back some of the medicare reimbursements that are cut in the bill to bring the costs down) it is plain that this is well in excess of a trillion dollars – probably over 2.5 trillion. If it’s so great – why is Congress exempt? If taxing the fat cats is so great, how did the president of SEIU (Service Employees International Union) become exempt (their plans will be exempt from the cadilac tax)? Why are only the seniors in three counties of Florida going to have their Medicare Advantage in tact, while the rest of the country does not? I could go on, but you are probably already bored. Remember - this legislation is not about healt care.