would it get better?

[wareagle69]

with all the threads and questions posed about long term shtf and survival and the desire to live or not, i pose this question.

Would it get better or worse the longer you go.?

I am of the opinion that it would get better, the first 2 or 3 years would suck, thats when the lawlessness would be rampant(they will die of soon enough) and just the basic adapting to what has happened would be the hardest. I have often thought about the concept "you get used to it" and i think that it would apply here, as you find other survivors and have started growing food and being used to this new lifestyle i think that the term "comfort" would take on a different meaning but the longer you survive the easier it would get.
what is your take on this
WE

[nell67]

I agree with you WE,those who are willing to adapt to the physical,and mental challenges,will find it easier,those who keep Jonsen for the mechanical amenities they were used to before TSHTF,will have problems.

[Canadian-guerilla]

i think a big factor in surviving after TSHTF is mindset

read up on / think about worst case scenarios

and then think positive after that


one scenario i think about is life without electricity after TSHTF

[gryffynklm]

WE I totally agree. That is the main reason I am a bug in sort. I believe community is going to be very important. When possible I participate in the community activities. It gives me a chance to meet the people in the area both good and questionable. It also gives me a chance to see who works in the work as a team community spirit. Over the last two years its always the same 15 or 20 people at the core.

I figure that supporting this community attitude now puts us in the loop if something were to happen. Yes, 2 or 3 years it will get real bad. By the end things should have stabilized a it so that efforts move from maintaining to building.

[Sarge47]

WE I totally agree. That is the main reason I am a bug in sort. I believe community is going to be very important. When possible I participate in the community activities. It gives me a chance to meet the people in the area both good and questionable. It also gives me a chance to see who works in the work as a team community spirit. Over the last two years its always the same 15 or 20 people at the core.

I figure that supporting this community attitude now puts us in the loop if something were to happen. Yes, 2 or 3 years it will get real bad. By the end things should have stabilized a it so that efforts move from maintaining to building.

Absolutely!

[Sourdough]

I really "WANT" to believe that people will pull together. And I kind'a think they will try. But look around, really look around. These people are huge, not just over weight, they are too huge to do the manual labor. Plus they would cry and rebel after 15 minutes of real work, and need a snack. It is not that they won't understand the gravity of the situation, they will just be useless.

Yes, you each are young and strong and healthy, but just look at your teammates as they walk or waddle down the sidewalk.

You will not need data people, you will not need managers, administrators, you will need people who can work 14 to 18 hours per day every day for ever.

Who will make it are the people on the planet right now working hard 12 hours per day. Really look around today as you encounter people and just ask yourself, could that person really work, "WOULD" they work. We are a country of "TAKERS". We trade weapons and technology to other countries in exchange for there doing our labor, there working in sweatshops 12 or 14 hours per day. We are for the most part Fat, Lazy, Gluttonous parasites, and we will suffer horribly for it.

[Winnie]

You've summed it up quite nicely Gryff and I agree.

[Julie362]

Everyone on this forum would suddenly become the most powerful people on the planet. The guys at MIT would ask US for help! =P

[hunter63]

WE I totally agree. That is the main reason I am a bug in sort. I believe community is going to be very important. When possible I participate in the community activities. It gives me a chance to meet the people in the area both good and questionable. It also gives me a chance to see who works in the work as a team community spirit. Over the last two years its always the same 15 or 20 people at the core.

I figure that supporting this community attitude now puts us in the loop if something were to happen. Yes, 2 or 3 years it will get real bad. By the end things should have stabilized a it so that efforts move from maintaining to building.

I agree as well, and from personal experience at the cabin, take a lot of work to "Get in the Loop", including putting your self out for others, but the long term benefits are enormous.

I also agree that it will be real PITA for those that have no clue, on doing for themselves, no matter what it is, as far a living goes.

The fat/lazy/entitled will either thin themselves (literally), or thin themselves out.

Now a big question, Does anyone actually WANT a SHTF to happen, because your ready, waiting, planning, learning...............?

[Sourdough]

Now a big question, Does anyone actually WANT a SHTF to happen, because your ready, waiting, planning, learning...............?

NO........O' there is a self righteous part of me that would like to see people kicked off the gravy train. But it will be a horror beyond which we can imagine, truly Hell on Earth.

[gryffynklm]

Sourdough, You are correct. That is one part of the questionable element I was referring to. How that plays out is something I personally haven't focused on. Not because I hadn't thought of it but because it is a harsh reality.

Like hunter said. "The fat/lazy/entitled will either thin themselves (literally), or thin themselves out." There will have to be some harsh decisions made.

Sourdough quote:
"Who will make it are the people on the planet right now working hard 12 hours per day. Really look around today as you encounter people and just ask yourself, could that person really work, "WOULD" they work. We are a country of "TAKERS". We trade weapons and technology to other countries in exchange for there doing our labor, there working in sweatshops 12 or 14 hours per day. We are for the most part Fat, Lazy, Gluttonous parasites, and we will suffer horribly for it."

Sounds like a reference to Ishmael by Daniel Quinn as well as My Ishmael and The story of B, interesting read.

Amazon link to the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Ishmael-Advent.../dp/0553375407

[Alaskan Survivalist]

My crystal ball has a different picture. Authority will not go away, it will become more totalitarian. All resources will be controlled and people will accept this or be an outlaw living on the fringes of civilization. In time there may be a total collapse but it will take years or even decades and a very likely senario is we slip into a comunist society. 2 or 3 weeks of collapse then every body starts forming co-op? I'm thinking more along the lines of the depression in Germany after WW I that lead to the rise of the nazi's and WW II only this time it will be global and no one to come to our aid. It is only after that collapses will we have the kinds of life most see. We will either become part of it or use self reliant abilities to be the last to be absorbed by it and then hide with food supplies to see us through until total collapse and then return to self reliant life style. In my best case senario I see myself dying of natural causes in the next 5-10 years due to over work and lack of medical care. The living will envy the dead. I wish I could believe like you guys or better yet like the people believing in green shoots in the economy. I'm no more a profit than anybody else, I just hope I am wrong or crazy. Maybe there is a pill I can take that will make me better?

[Pal334]

I believe that the folks who are prepared will eventually see a "bettering" of their situation (bettering may be a relative term). They have done most of the learning that will then be honed by experience and hopefully storage of basic items. I think, as WE said on another thread that "getting ahead" on the labor intensive work,(I would add skill learning) would relieve alot of pressure. "Bugging in" (if possible) would help since your basic infrastructure and hopefully social structure would be in place (probably battered).

[Rick]

People only migrate toward their comfort zone. That means everyone will try their level best to get back to what they did before. Greed will require corporations to rebuild. Programmers or "data people" will still be required just as much if not more. That is where society is. That's how information moves. That's how money moves. That's how goods are bought and sold. Do any of you think for a moment that Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Warren Buffet would just walk off into the sunset crying because they can't make fire with sticks?

I'm not certain what everything thinks is going to happen but someone point to something that would require the country three years to rebuild from. I can't think of anything.

Two or three years? Maybe. Probably a lot sooner than that. Will it be different, probably. But not that much.

[Sourdough]

Rick, the thread killer........What flavor Kool-Ade do you enjoy........?

Everyone wants to think that it will quickly get Back to Normal...........What if life in 1885 is normal.....? What if the last 125 years have been a synthetic, fabricated, illusion of an ECONOMY.

[Rick]

That's the whole point though. The vast majority of folks don't know any normal other than what they are experiencing now and that's what they want to get back to. That's reality...if just for them. You're reality is different and it's different from mine. It doesn't matter if they are the school janitor or the CEO of some mega enterprise (not that either is good or bad). Most don't have a comparative life style to reset their comfort zone so they HAVE to get back to where they were.

Now, if you are from a third world country then your comfort zone might be 1885. As you've said a couple of times. Even our poorest live better than the richest of some of other lands. So those folks could adapt. Much more easily at any rate, than you or I. They do have that comparative lifestyle that once WAS their comfort zone. They might very well like their new life in Manhattan but they were born and raised in Sudan so the long line at the soup kitchen really isn't going to be an inconvenience. It would, however, be not only an inconvenience but an embarrassment for you and I so we just have to get back home to Kansas. Savvy, Toto?

[Ken]

I'm not certain what everything thinks is going to happen but someone point to something that would require the country three years to rebuild from. I can't think of anything.

How about the Yellowstone supervolcano? Mt. St. Helens on a grander scale.

[Rick]

Well, actually.....I watched a Discovery blurb or some channel about that subject last week. The actual impact, if I remember correctly, was about 150 miles in circumference. The ash fallout would spread in a conical shape across the country to the East Coast (prevailing winds and all). The really crappy stuff would be in the ionosphere for several years since there is no moisture up there to "wash" it out. Its little orbit would eventually decay and come tumbling back to earth. Or as close as dust can make it. Anywhooooo.

That would certainly be a disruption on a grand scale and might take a year or two to get back to normal. I can concede that. What else? Score one for Ken.

[LowKey]

Bolide impact. Sooner or later the Earth will get hit.

But I'm also a firm believer that man will do it to himself first. There are too many humans on this spaceship. Sooner or later something will break.

And I happen to agree with Alaskan Survivalist's scenario. The strong will take from the weak; the government, in whatever form survives, will confiscate stockpiles it finds; and the lawlessness is nothing to gloss over either. It will not be an immediate return to the survivalist ideal of Utopia.

[rwc1969]

...But I'm also a firm believer that man will do it to himself first. There are too many humans on this spaceship. Sooner or later something will break.

And I happen to agree with Alaskan Survivalist's scenario. The strong will take from the weak; the government, in whatever form survives, will confiscate stockpiles it finds; and the lawlessness is nothing to gloss over either. It will not be an immediate return to the survivalist ideal of Utopia.

Yep, and I agree with AS's scenario too and sourdough's to an extent, but the strong"est" isn't gonna be the 12-14 hour types, it'll be the "I have a dream" or "hiel hitler" types and the ones who submit to serve their purpose.

The ones who don't submit and are effectivley skirting society will be the 12-14 hour types mixed in with a few knowledgable types who have the brains to keep order, rationale and concealment.

There will never be true anarchy on earth. Someone will always control, someone will always enforce, some will always serve, some will always rebel, etc. It's like a broken record that keeps skipping thru time. Same ole song and dance, same as it ever was.

Even if technology fails the above will remain true. Mankind is not intent to live in peace and at one with nature. Our nature is to serve, control, rebel and repeat. It's the nature of the beast.