The quest for the perfect survival gun

[kx250kev]

[QUOTE=klkak;202030]

"If I were to factor in the 16 inch barrel of my Model 94 .44 magnum with any 44 mag ammo will out class the keltech 9mm with any ammo you put in it."

[Indeed. Just pointing out that 9mm has additional utility with the extra barrel length, and ranks up there on penetration. I wouldn't recommend hunting with it, but I'm sure in a survival situation it would provide for a decent meal. I also wouldn't feel under gunned in a defensive situation. In fact, people have killed bear with a 9mm.]

"The only advantage the Keltec has is more rounds and a faster rate of fire." [It also has other advantages as a survival gun...light weight, small size when folded and very decent accuracy. You can also carry more ammo.
P.s. I also don't like spray and pray. I'd prefer to put all spent rounds right on target.]

IMHO, if you read the original post, it fills many of their 'wants'.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Has anybody read P.O. Ackley?

[Pal334]

Have read briefly about him. I tend to stick to "standards" as opposed to the wildcats. He his the class of his field.

[randyt]

i have a couple books by ackley and he had a monthly column in on of the gun mags years ago. also my 86 winchester started out as a 40-65 and my granddad sent it to him and had it bored out to 45-70. ackley was quite the gunsmith, i enjoyed reading his blowup tests he performed on military actions, a real eyeopener.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

i have a couple books by ackley and he had a monthly column in on of the gun mags years ago. also my 86 winchester started out as a 40-65 and my granddad sent it to him and had it bored out to 45-70. ackley was quite the gunsmith, i enjoyed reading his blowup tests he performed on military actions, a real eyeopener.

He wrote 2 books in the early 60's that are still the bible for balistics like Chapmans Piloting, seamanship and small boat handling is the bible for boaters. Recomended read for these types of topics. Before him some cartridges did well and others didn't and was rather hit or miss but after him we knew why. Reloaders can use this information to add versatility to any cartridge and know the limitations of both cartridge and firearm. My 44 loads cannot even be fired from S&W handguns, the cylinders are to short and not strong enough. The Ruger Super Red Hawk and the Dan Wesson are the two strongest 44's but these days there are so many more options for those who want more gun assuming they a capable of handling it.

In Alaska it is a matter of are you hunting them or are they hunting you that your choice should be based on. If you are going to get one gun to do both you will be comprimising something at both ends of the spectrum. To gain any advantage in one area something is compromized somewhere else. There are no best guns as far as I'm concerned just ones better suited to you and P.O. Ackley is where understanding that began. For any not wanting to immerse themselves in study you can't go wrong with the tried and true standards. In Alaska that is the 44 and the 30.06. The 338 is becoming more popular these days and may become the new standard.

[Mountaintrekker]

Sorry I haven't responded in a bit, power outages and major snow and no internet! Anyways... I think the theme of my post was lost a bit. I know what to take hunting various game up here etc. 9mm is a joke for what I need. I've shot 9mm for over 20 years now and I know full well it's capabilities. Alskan cartridge it is not. I don't care what some ballistic table says (balistic gelatin is used to mimic human flesh, not big game!), It's not a performer for what I need this rifle to be. I have a Keltec sub 2000 in 9mm that uses Glock 17 mags. It stays in the lower 48 with relatives where it belongs. Nuff said on that topic.
My use for a gun like this is a one firearm approach to a "backpack" style weapon that is compact and will either shoot one of the previous selected calibers that I mentioned as that's what I've standardized. I see the .22LR either as an insert or second barrel etc. as a definate asset for filling the pot on the cheap and being able to have 100rnds with you taking up virtually no space. I'm still debating wether or not to get an insert and just try it out and see for myself
I need something powerful and versitile that I can keep in a medeuim sized pack. I use this for my grab and go bag when I get a call and hop in a plane, chopper or boat and I'm 200 to 500 miles out from my house for a day or two. Things go wrong anywhere, up here it happens far too often and can last for days or weeks. That's what I'm prepping for.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Have you considered reloading? I worked up some sub sonic 44 specials. No hydraulic shock, no bullet expansion, you can eat right up to the bullet hole.

[Sourdough]

My use for a gun like this is a one firearm approach to a "backpack" style weapon that is compact and will either shoot one of the previous selected calibers that I mentioned as that's what I've standardized. I see the .22LR either as an insert or second barrel etc. as a definate asset for filling the pot on the cheap and being able to have 100rnds with you taking up virtually no space. I'm still debating wether or not to get an insert and just try it out and see for myself
I need something powerful and versitile that I can keep in a medeuim sized pack. I use this for my grab and go bag when I get a call and hop in a plane, chopper or boat and I'm 200 to 500 miles out from my house for a day or two. Things go wrong anywhere, up here it happens far too often and can last for days or weeks. That's what I'm prepping for.

Remington model 870 with 18.5" Barrel & sights, add a butler creek folding stock, if you take the barrel off, the receiver and tube are fairly short. Your stuck on 12 Gauge...... that is OK, I have choosen (20 Ga. Youth model 11-87) the thing I give up is the use of 12 Ga. signal flares. You could take big game to 125 yards, plus have 25 of those argala 1 3/4" Number #7 shot or slug loads.

[klkak]

MT, let us know what you deside on.

[mcfd45]

Could you just carr two guns? I was thinking a small .22 pistol and a big bear rifle. You would have everything from rabbit to grizzly covered.

[KhonHd]

I like my Savage 24C .22 over 20ga. It weighs very little, carries like a dream in the bush. Breaks down in 2 seconds and packs small. I can load anything from .22 subsonics, .22 LR, shot and slugs (even a 45 cal Nosler partition). So squirrels to bears, it can take them all, but I wouldn't intentionally hunt bear with it, but defensively or survival food I wouldn't hesitate.

Second choice (for survival) is a 45/70 (had one before sold it, now have a new one on order). I load so taking very (very) light loads for rabbit or heavy load for large game all work. I have tried bird shot, but it didn't pattern very well.

[Mountaintrekker]

I wish they made a stainless bolt action 30.06 with a 20" barrel, iron sights and some type of folding or takedown stock...

[Sourdough]

I wish they made a stainless bolt action 30.06 with a 20" barrel, iron sights and some type of folding or takedown stock...

Closest that comes to mind is the Stainless Ruger mini-30 with a Butler Creek stainless folding stock.

[xj2000]

Fact: There is no perfect 'survival' gun. It's all in what will get the job done comfortably for YOU.

[Mountaintrekker]

Thanks for hearing me out on my grumping and complaining with this issue. I think I'm going to go back to a 12ga pump with a folding stock like Sourdough was suggesting. I was toying with the 12ga idea in the combo gun configuration, but the folding stock seems like a better option. I'ts compact, uses a wide variety of ammo without modifications, birdshot (2 3/4 and small Aguilla shells), buckshot, slugs, waterfowl loads, flares etc. It's a repeater which helps in many situations, not too heavy and a good Remington 870 is tough as nails and won't break the bank. I have several, so now I can just get a 18" barrel and a folding stock. Maybe I'll talk to a smith and see about threading an 18" barrel for choke tubes.
Stainless is probably out as Remington uses a nickel finish on their marine magnum and that's not what I'm looking for. Maybe I'll put one together and have it parkerized or something. Ghost ring sights?

[klkak]

I think you made go choice MT.

[Sourdough]

One disadvantage to most folding stocks is that they can't be shortened. And in the winter I like a 1" shorter LOP to allow for the arctic clothing.

[Sourdough]

I see that they just made a special run of 870's in 20 ga. with sights and laminated stocks. It might be fun to build a present for yor lady, and you could use it if your good. That way your quest could continue.......

[Mountaintrekker]

Hmm.... good point about letting the quest continue! My sweetie already shoots an 870 12ga though. She suprises me all the time, she also carries a full sized G20 10mm with her in the woods with Double Tap 200gr WFNGC rounds. She's not even a big woman either... I think I'll have to make a a couple of versions of these pack guns though, just to be sure.
It is funny how I get caught up trying to solve one "problem" only to create more and I had a great solution originally. I guess that's what I get from being behind the keyboard too much this winter and not out in the bush!

[Badawg]

Hey guys... I am in a different situation here in southern California... My carry choice is a Springfield XD40 .40cal. It will certainly knock down any 2 leggers just fine, and am pretty sure it will handle a cat quite well, and those are what I worry about. I also think I could take a muley with it if I really needed to.

Fits well in a mil surplus flap holster too.

Different story here than in the Alaska bush though