Camping or surviving?

[tracks]

Point taken.. But thats like applied knowledge,Someone reads a book on how to build a house,knows every detail ,very aspect and yet can't drive a nail.Then you have a person who can't read has no formal education,yet can build elaborate structures,or a person that can do every thing you can imagine,if someone shows them.....I guess thats why some lead some follow and some expect to be carried,or maybe I'm confusing inhereted for instinctive I do'nt know just stuff I have noticed..

[Sarge47]

My original point was more basic, less "psychological" than what you're saying here. It's not that I don't agree with you, I do, however I was trying to define different areas of "outdoor activity". You're delving into the person them self. Everybody has been born with the instinct of "Self-Preservation". If you don't believe me try throwing anybody you know into the deep end of a swimming pool and watch them either swim to the edge & pull themselves out or thrash around TRYING to save themselves, and possibly drown in the process. I'm willing to bet that you'll never see anybody who quite calmly allows themselves to sink to the bottom of the pool and perish unless there's a physical/mental problem to begin with.

For example,I don't believe that anybody is "born" already knowing how to start a fire or build a shelter; they had to learn it somewhere. Unlike the lower life forms on this planet, we have to be taught everything nessasary to sustain life; eating, walking, talking, etc. True, some people might not have the "WILL" to survive, and maybe that's what you're talking about. That, however, does not nessasarily imply that they never had the instinct to begin with, they have probably lost the will to fight for their life over their years going through life being beaten down by an uncaring social system that has the ability to reduce man to a rubble. In other words, either way, the "mind-set" is "aqquired", not inheirited. Remy will probably join in on this a bit later on, it's his "backyard".

[Rick]

All great points from both of you.

[tracks]

Oh boy ..I feel another nose bleed coming on, your right though sarge it all comes down to the human will. I'm much more suited to the,what's the better rock to throw aspect anyway.....seen some real peculiar animal behaviour this mourning,Might be an interesting subject when the hunting, gathering comes back up

[Catfish]

Camping or Surviving? Don't you think this all comes down to the question of choice? If you "choose" to do it, you're camping. If don't "choose" to do it, but have to in order to stay alive, that's surviving.

Going into the wilderness taking everything you need/want/can carry to make your stay pleasurable (whatever your definition of that is) is camping.

Going into the wilderness to try out survival skills you've read about, or have been shown, or haven't used for a while, is practicing. You may or not use these skills when camping.

When something goes wrong and you're forced to use those skills, not for fun, or for practice, but to save your life, that's surviving.

Yes? No? Maybe?

[Rick]

Well said. I think you are correct.

[Sarge47]

My point exactly, although the idea of "not having fun" is not always applicable. In his book, "The Complete Book Of Outdoor Survival", J. Wayne Fears relates the following:

"I recall fondly one hunter I helped find in Georgia. He had been lost for two days, and when we found him he had established himself a homestead.In fact, he had built himself such a cozy camp that we used it for an overnight rest before packing out.On the way out, he told us that his "ordeal" had been a ball and he planned to get lost again soon"

Now I understand that the above situation is not always the case, but the better one is in the woods, the more prepared they are with the proper clothing, equipment, skills, & mindset, the better their chances are for coming out of it all alive! Just my opinion, what do you all think?

[Rick]

On the surface, I agree. I think a lot depends on why you got into trouble in the first place.

[Nativedude]

If you purposely go into an area with little or no water, no natural shelter materials or you have to make a shelter from natural materials, and little in the way of food, then you are in a "survival" situation. If you go with all the accoutrements, i.e; tent, sleeping bag, etc., then you are "camping".

[Deadly Tao]

Some of my friends and I are going "surviving" this summer. We plan to bring a car-load of emergency stuff, some emergency stuff with us where we decide to shelter, and some first aid kits on person at all times. We also plan to have a flashlight, glow stick, whistle, and knife on each person all the time, along with emergency food (beef jerky would probably be best, or trail mix).

This is NOT a survival situation because we aren't at risk of dying in the wilderness. HOWEVER, I think we're conforming to your definition by way of our golden rule: You can't use any of this sh*t or you lose. It's not a competition, but if you have to use anything besides your on-person first aid (it's assumed that you could have made this kit our of ripped clothing and shoelaces, so the kit is just there to preserve our clothing) you are considered to have dropped out of the activity and now you're just camping. Especially when talking about food.

We plan to drive 7 hours north to the Wilderness areas of northern Wisconsin. There we will spend 1 week trying to survive without anything but knives and the clothes on our back (and 50ft of rope for the whole group).

[Rick]

Well, good luck there Deadly. Before you go, if you don't mind, why not conform to our Introduction post? Here's a template for you to use.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

[Jeepman]

There seems to be a problem here where the lines between survival and camping are getting blurred. It is my educated opinion that if you sit down, plan it out, then do it and everything goes according to plan, that's camping, not survival, even if you're duplicating survival skills and using you're survival gear. The type of camping is the question. For example, TBWN's are not going out to survive, they are going camping, minimalist camping to be sure, but camping. They've laid out their plan, made their equipment list, short as it is, and are going to leave soon. If &/or when it all goes "south" then they'll find themselves in a survival situation. People like myself & Marscroft who take everything they can into the woods are the other end of the "camping" spectrum. Oddly enough, those who plan properly and carry the right amount of equipment and knowledge into the field never really run into a survival situation. This is the 1st of several posts on this thread that I'm going to do to see what you folks think. Starting out here is "defining survival". Now you all know what I think, tell me what you think!

Sarge 47, U.S. Marine here its OORAH! my friend
The way you said it is Army

[Sarge47]

Sarge 47, U.S. Marine here its OORAH! my friend
The way you said it is Army

Sorta off-topic, don't you think?

[Sarge47]

Please read my comments within your text.

Some of my friends and I are going "surviving" this summer.[I GO "SURVIVING" EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY! ]

We plan[PLAN?]

to bring a car-load of emergency stuff, some emergency stuff with us where we decide to shelter, and some first aid kits on person at all times. We also plan to have a flashlight, glow stick, whistle, and knife on each person all the time, along with emergency food (beef jerky would probably be best, or trail mix). [DON'T FORGET THOSE ORGAN DONOR CARDS & YOUR LAST WILL & TESTAMENT!]

This is NOT a survival situation[NO CRAP!]

because we aren't at risk of dying in the wilderness.[HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?]

HOWEVER, I think we're conforming to your definition [MY DEFINITION? TRY WEBSTERS!]

by way of our golden rule: You can't use any of this sh*t or you lose.[LOSE WHAT?]

It's not a competition, but if you have to use anything besides your on-person first aid (it's assumed that you could have made this kit our of ripped clothing and shoelaces, so the kit is just there to preserve our clothing)[REALLY DUMB! A 1ST AID KIT FOR CLOTHES!]

you are considered to have dropped out of the activity and now you're just camping.[NEW FLASH, ACE! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING!]

Especially when talking about food. We plan to drive 7 hours north to the Wilderness areas of northern Wisconsin. There we will spend 1 week trying to survive without anything but knives and the clothes on our back [WOW! LIKE THAT'S NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE! EVER HEAR OF TBWN?" ]

(and 50ft of rope for the whole group).[WELL, IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT THAT WILL HELP IN DRAGGING THE BODIES OUT!]

[Ken]

And not even a hint of sarcasm. Hi, Sarge!

[Tripwire]

Almost everyone has been in a survival situation. It doesn’t have to be a big disaster.

Twice, one I got my truck stuck for two days, and no one could get to me to get it unstuck.

The other time I went up into the Cascades to sight in a friend 7mm mag, I tore the oil pan off my car, and had to walk out.

Both times all I had with me was my knife, fire and me wits.

Camping is sitting in one place and enjoying nature.

Back in the 80s 6 of us invented Survivor weekends. We would leave Friday night, and come back Sunday evening.
Each person was allowed two luxury items. We took no firearms. You could not tell the others what your two items where.
You could not take prepared food. Your clothes and boots had to be civilian. Toiletries were considered luxury.
My two items were my mirrored sunglasses and my knife.
This was camping with a twist

[gryffynklm]

Hey Deadly!

Before you get all upset and go on a rampage because Sarge is giving you a hard time, Stop shake it off and think about his statements like your life depended on it. Seriously no joke, Slow down, think about what you said and what he said.

Your post is not new and unique there are many similar posts from people who have watched "survival shows" or not and want to try it. It does sound like fun.

For Example: #1

"because we aren't at risk of dying in the wilderness."[HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?]

Take a good look at this statement and response. This forum likes to post rescue and recover articles from pretty much around the world. We like to learn from both the success and failure (read that as the difference between rescue and recovery). The people in these articles are about both experienced and novice some prepared some not, both have died.

How about this one: #2

"you are considered to have dropped out of the activity and now you're just camping." [NEW FLASH, ACE! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING!]

Its a matter of semantics. Ya perhaps minimalist camping with the intent of experimenting with "your collection of survival knowledge" we have no idea if you have a clue (no offense), thats fine and dandy.

Being in a survival situation is taking an out of control perhaps life threatening situation and taking as much control as you can with the knowledge and resources you have available.

This one: #3
We plan[PLAN?]

to bring a car-load of emergency stuff, some emergency stuff with us where we decide to shelter, and some first aid kits on person at all times. We also plan to have a.......

Plan Survival camping?????? Surviving???????

I'm glad you are Planing.... But be aware a prepared camping trip has turned to survival for someone in the past.

Go the the "General Survival Discussion" there are sticky threads that have valuable posts. Do a search for living in the wild or surviving long term in the wilderness. Tucked away in these subjects are both harsh criticisms and valuable information.

Search the forum search the forum.

Consider knowing dangerous plants animals for your area. Consider laws pertaining to trespassing, fire building, hunting trapping and fishing if these are part of your survival activities. That way you are aware of any violations you may encounter. Learn about water purification. Remember, If you bring it into the woods take your trash out.

Listen to sarge
Be safe go camping and experiment with survival from knowledge.

I'm done rambling.

[rwc1969]

So if someone is well prepared, but not camping, and gets themselves into a survival situation then in fact they are not surviving just camping?

So, the only way you are in a survival situation is if you are totally unprepared?

[hunter63]

Yo, Dead,
OMG, I LIVE in Wisconsin, got get planning,....... got get planning.........

Hayward is really a suburb of Chicago, judging by how many "Bears Bars" there are.

Anyway have a good time, stay safe, have fun.

[klkak]

One winter I was traveling by snow machine from Cantwell to Paxton. It's about 120 miles or so. It was about 9am when I left Cantwell. The sun came up to a beautiful Chrystal clear day, the temp was around 0. (First bad sign) Along about noon the wind started to blow. (Second bad sign) I paid it little mind because I was on a brand new Tundra. I had 2 extra cans of gas and plenty of oil. I was dressed in waterproof, insulated snow machining coveralls, -100 sorrel’s, waterproof/insulated gloves, balaclava and helmet so I was in good shape for the cold.

Just before the sun dipped out of sight I decided to stop and top off the gas and oil as well as eat my sandwich and drink some coffee. I stopped on a hill top for a moment and realized the wind was blowing around 30 or 40 mph. (third bad sign) I pulled down into the lee of the hill to have my rest. I was there for about 40 min. When I started out again the wind had increase quite a bit and it was getting difficult to ride against it. After about 2 hours of this it was past dark and I was just about done in. (I was now in a survival situation and the next few decisions I made could mean the difference between me living or dieing)

I pulled into the lee of another hill to rest again. I got out my GPS to see how far I had to go and decided to dig a hole and wait till morning. I put the cover on the snow machine. Extended my avalanche poll and put the orange flag on top of it and stuck in the snow to mark my position. Got out my avalanche shovel and dug in for the night. About 5am I had to go pee. When I crawled out of my hole I noticed the wind had died down. Not a cloud in the sky and extremely cold. It took me a couple tries to get the snow machine started. I pulled into Paxton about 9am. It wasn't until I got there that I found out how cold it was that night. With the wind chill it was off the scale.

Did I mention that I was alone?

In the preceding true story I was very prepared. It was still a "survival situation" which I was able to get myself out of.

I think what "Deadly Toad" is doing is "extreme minimalist camping".

I look at a true survival situation as when you are unexpectedly placed in a situation where you could live or die depending on the preparation you may have made and or the decisions you make.

Not all "survival situations" end with a dramatic rescue or someone cutting their own arm off.