Frostbite ??

[Smok]

How to treat frostbite in the field over night and then how to treat it when your out for a week ?? How to prevent frostbite??

[canid]

to help prevent frostbite: keep extremities dry and out of exposure to winds. mittens are generaly better than gloves. keep extremities in motion [wear flexible soled boots, flex fingers regualrly] to increase circulation.

to treat frostbite: slowly warm effected area once and only once you know you can keep it warm. if possible, immerse in cool [read not hot, not cold] water to help in thawing. dress and keep clean and dry. in severe cased, do not move or bend affected extremity untill it is completely thawed and warmed to body temperature. then and only then, move appendage in a normal range of motion to induce circulation. consult somebody more knowledgeble than myself.

[canid]

the head or hands can be kept warmer and out of the wind if brought inside upper clothing and near the torso. hands can be placed in the underarms, croch, etc.

feet can be further insolated by wrapping with extra clothing, bedding, etc. if boots are wet, damp or restrict airflow, they should first be removed.

most of the solutions i can think of atm are pretty obvious.

[Elkchsr]

How to prevent frostbite??

One of the biggest mistakes people tend to make, and this gets them into trouble

When you get cold or wet, find a good source of fuel, get a fire going and get warmed and or dried out

Most people die of the hypothermia in the 45-50 degree range, so it doesn't take much

I was walking across a swampy area a number of years ago

Temps were -20 at night, -10 during the day

I assumed there wouldn't be any soft spots

As I walked across I stepped thru a number of places, effectivly soaking my boots up to the ankles

The snow worked just like mud and stuck to my boots immediatly freezing

When I got to the other side, there was about an inch of ice on them and I could feel a couple places where the water had soaked thru and into my socks

In years gone by, I would have just marched on not giving it much thought

But as others in the same prediciment have found out, I probably would have lost some or all my toes in the process I was out in these temps for a week with out a fire (cept for this one time)

I immediatly got a good fire going and dried out my boots and socks

Did it take quite a while, well sure it did, but I've still got all my digets to show for it

[MCBushbaby]

John Muir froze his feet during a trip to Mount Shasta where he had to wait out a storm near the summit by laying in a thermal vent over a couple days. They had to thaw his feet by sticking them in snow for a good couple hours before they applied any heat or circulation attempt. Talk about gradual! But it's required.

[wildWoman]

As far as preventing frostbite on the feet, it helps if your boots are rather loose-fitting. For women, I'd advise getting men's winter boots because often boots for women are made pretty narrow and once you've got your thick wool socks on, your toes might not be able to move much as you're walking.
Wearing mukluks is by far the best thing when it's cold and dry, in my opinion. Because they are so loose-fitting, your toes actually get to do some work in there which keeps them warm. Also mukluks let your feet "breathe", so with a good wool liner in there your feet stay super warm and don't get sweaty. You can make your own fairly easily. I made a pair out of moose leather, it doen't have to be smoke-tanned, also works with normal leather which is a lot cheaper to come by.

[NorthWindTrails]

Does anyone have a good pattern for mukluks? This sounds like what I've been looking for. Any help is appreciated! NorthWind

[Rick]

Here is some nice information on cold weather injuries, including frostbite, from the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001601...7/d001677.html

[Smok]

Some very good information think you all , it is that time of year

[Sarge47]

In one episode of "Discovery's" "I Shouldn't Be Alive: The Science Of Survival"; Les Stroud made a pair of Mukluks from the seat insulation of a pick-up truck using the wiring harness to tie it all together. My 1984, 3rd Edition, Fieldbook of the Boy Scouts Of America, Chapter 5,(Making Equipment) pg. 79, shows how to make a pair of Mukluks out of foam insulation material. But better yet, buy a good pair of U.S. Military "Mickey" Boots and save your energy, unless you're the "do-it-yourself" type of course.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=66036

Also using an "inner sock made up of a wicking material like "Poly-Proprolene" or "Micro-Fleece" will help keep your feet dry as the inner sock will then "wick" the moisture to the outer sock area.

[RBB]

The Rabers liners, out of the Canadian Military extreme cold weather mukluk is about the best liner I've come across (and very reasonable - used). They are made from two thicknesses of fulled Hudson Bay blanket and work very well in winter moggasins or mukluks.

[carcajou garou]

Elkchsr is right, better to take care of it right away, wring out clothes, sponge out boots, start a fire and dry up as well as you can. Even camp the night if its late in the day and your main camp is far away.
Frostbite has a tendency to creep in without you knowing it, till its in.
I wear wool almost exclusively even in summer (just a lighter weight), wring out, dry a layer at a time while the other layers dry out and rotate.

[trax]

If someone you are with has frostbitten fingers or toes, one of the best ways to help them thaw slowly is to bare the appendages, cup your hands around them and breathe on them repeatedly. Your breath is quite warm on exhalation, certainly warmer than the air around you. After a couple of minutes of the breathing, massage them gently with your hands. It's slow, but very effective and essentially painless compared to some other methods.

I agree with Elkchsr, it's better to take preventative measures. I don't have a design for mukluks, used to get them made for me back in the day. The woman who made them always traced my feet for a pattern and hand stitched everything. She was very old school (would be close to 100 if she was still with us.) I recommend moose hide, it's a lot stronger than other leathers and virtually waterproof if the stitching is done right.

[wildWoman]

Hey NorthWindTrails, there are a number of ways to make mukluks, it's basically just adding on a top part to an ordinary moccasin. So you can google for moccasin patterns, pick one you like, make a pair, and then you sew on the part that goes up to your knee. If you haven't made stuff like that before - don't stitch too tightly because a leather needle can cut the thread you're using and also you don't want to weaken the leather by perforating it too much. If you can look at a pair somewhere, that helps a lot because it's pretty straight-forward but sounds complicated when following instructions.
It's a good idea to glue a crepe rubber sole under it (the really thin stuff) to prevent you from slipping. A loose inner felt sole will cushion your steps a bit more and add insulation. Also sandwich a strip of thin leather between all seams to sturdy them.
I agree with RBB about the liners, that's what we're using and they're awesome. I don't think the army "mickey" or "bunny" boots compare to mukluks - those do keep your feet warm too but you're sweating in there like crazy. In mukluks, your feet stay totally dry (provided it's cold enough out, they're not footwear for around or above freezing point) and very warm. We've never gotten cold feet in them, even in -40 temperatures. Also they're great for snowshoeing because they are so lightweight, and won't tire your legs as much as normal winterboots will. And they fold up fairly small so you can easily bring them along as a second pair of boots. And they're easily repaired which also can't be sadi for all winterboots.
I guess I REALLY like mukluks....

[Smok]

Would an extra pare of liners be a good idea ? Because if the liners do get wet they will be some time drying out

[AdventureDoc]

Excellent thread! My addition is pain management. The re-warming process, especially if it is a bad case of frostbite, can be pretty painful. Anticipate this and consider some pain medicine like ibuprofen.

[Elkchsr]

Pains a good topic Doc...

When your hands are cold and you run them under water to thaw them out, if it hurts, it is the first signs of frostbite setting in

I do know you want to run your hands under cold water until you can feel the water running over your hands, then slowly start warming the water up

It's far less painful than just hitting the hot water and trying to get that quick fix

[canid]

the rewarming proccess in pre-frostbite conditions alone can be excruciating for that matter.

btw: does ibuprofen have anti-coagulating properties? i've seen ulcers mentioned in the contraindications on my bottle.

[Rick]

They have that on Jim Beam? I never even noticed.

[Daren]

Hello all
This is my first post.

My experience in cold is that if I keep my core warm I don't have to worry about my hands and feet so much. I'm a big fan of wool head to toe. I've never seen an animal wear gortex.