Global Warming

[Cori]

This is more of a question and a discussion.
Who here believes that Global Warming is ruining our forests, maybe even our planet?I myself have done the math, and do not really believe in Global Warming from our polluted world.The Earth is warming, I agree, but it's just nature taking its course.I am not going to bother with this thread a whole lot, because whenever I make a thread like this in other forums, it gets deleted for having no proof. I beg to differ. I am sure everyone has heard about the Black Plague right? Killed tons and tons of people.I think it was maybe a year, less then that, before the plague, a volcano erupted. Almost every "natural" disaster, like hurricane Katrina, has had a volcano erupt some time before it. I think what we believe is Global Warming is actually under-water volcanoes erupting, and they put poisonous gas into the air, and warm it.

Feel free to comment and talk about this

[Sarge47]

1st let me say that the only way you get deleted from this forum is by being a troll or a spammer, not for expressing your opinion! Next, I agree with you about your view on global warming, I believe it to be "political posturing". Furthermore, Michael Chichton wrote a Fiction novel about the falseity of Global Warming in his book "State of Fear"! While it was a work of fiction he showed many scientific facts that show GW as a false belief and his viewpoint was that there were billions of $$$ to be made in the form of grants and donations for research into this matter that motivated the people who endorsed this belief. However, you probably won't get very far with this thread as it will remain a "personal belief" one way or the other. Just my 2 cents.

[Rick]

Sarge is right. It's just personal opinion. I happen to believe in Global Warming and its effects. But you are correct, Cori, in your assessment that volcanoes have an important role in weather patterns world wide.

[Tony uk]

I beleve in Global warming, the earth is getting hotter due to toxic gasses like C02 going up into the ozone layer but i dont think that the main cause is what politicians say it is

its 4/45 in the morning here btw

[Sarge47]

Here's the way I see it. If everything they're saying about G.W. is false, then we don't have to worry about it. If it's true then we're all dead anyway so we don't have to worry about it. This site is dedicated to "Wilderness Survival", and if you fear that G.W. somehow plays a part in that then you should "prepare", and that's what we're all about here, right?

[Bladesypher]

Here's the way I see it. If everything they're saying about G.W. is false, then we don't have to worry about it. If it's true then we're all dead anyway so we don't have to worry about it. This site is dedicated to "Wilderness Survival", and if you fear that G.W. somehow plays a part in that then you should "prepare", and that's what we're all about here, right?

I guess your right. But it destroys land. I'm not sure of the cause it, however I think pollution from vehicles is there... So although this is a Wilderness Survival forum I think looking at preserving the little wilderness there is left today matters. Corporations are very much to blame for the destruction of land too. The Amazon is cut down at a rate of something like a football pitch a day. Well... I believe global warming is there and we shouldn't "worry" so much as try to do our part in lowering it, which I think overall will save more land and wildlife.

Global warming has also done huge amounts of damage to trees. Finding a good birch tree for a birchbark canoe is a near impossible mission now a days.
Global warming is also causing the sea levels to rise. And I understand what
you are saying about Volcanoes causing it, but its the volcanoes and other things that are causing what is known as global warming its self. There are reefs near Hawaii that used to have thousands of giant jellyfish thriving in them. A rise of a mere 2 degrees a few years ago killed thousands of them, global warming first hand. The seas' acidity levels are rising because it cant cope with the amount of pollution in it. There is a lake from which toxic gases rise. The gases are contained within the lake. But before the time of dinosaurs there were more of these fissures, they wiped out nearly all life. I think fissures like these also contribute to global warming. So my conclusion is that its there, but caused my not everything the governments make out its caused by.

[wildWoman]

I believe that the pollution and deforestation that humans in unprecedented numbers on the planet have been causing are in the very least a major contributing factor to global warming. I agree that the Earth goes through cycles that are beyond our puny understanding of how things work. The way I see it, there is no excuse for thrashing the planet to satisfy personal greed and/or consumerism. So I think even if human activity had zip to do with the climate of the earth changing, we should still live in a way that is compatible with the millions of other species on this planet. Destroying and polluting their habitat for the accumulation of consumer goods makes no sense to me.

[Rick]

If you think about it, we've only been stupid for about a hundred + years. Before that, we actually lived, more or less, in harmony. Had to. The good news is there has been a growing "green" understanding since the sixties and it continues to blossom. However you see it, I think it a bit presumptuous of us to think we can destroy the planet. All we can do is destroy our ability to live on it. A thousand or ten thousand years from now the earth will be just fine no matter what happens to us.

[Cori]

Cori's Biography:
"I love just sitting in the woods and avoiding big cities-my lungs are clean, I'll keep it this way."


A clue maybe ?

A clue on what?All I meant by that was bigger cities are unhealthy to live in because of pollution.Over the summer I went to New York, and it is very different form my hometown here in Wisconsin.

Anyway, you know how scientists are saying that we are polluting the air because of lights left on when un-needed, cars are causing pollution, that's why G.B is happening?What about the Ice Age? Did you ever stop to think that maybe this is just the opposite?Maybe we are getting closer to the sun.I'm not sure if studies have any measurements on how far away form the sun we are now, and how far we were back in 1950, but I am sure we are so much closer.

[Rick]

Interesting thought, Cori. I have seen studies indicating the amount of light reaching the surface is decreasing and has offset, at least to some degree, the amount of global warming that has occurred. Believe it or not, there are actually field scientists who measure how much sunlight reaches the earth every day and how much evaporation that sun light causes. While the distance between the earth and sun remains a constant, as far as you and I are concerned, the amount of light (radiation) that we receive does vary.

[Cori]

I know this is a little bit off topic, but does anyone know what started the Ice Ages?

I honestly think volcanoes did this, because when volcanoes erupt ash blocks out the sun completely if it is very thick.Would enough ash be able to cause it?

[Rick]

Here's a wike article for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

[Chris]

State of Fear is an excellent book, highly recommended.

The Environmental Movement is mostly about politics and putting forth a socialist agenda than anything else anymore.

Also good watching:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoid=8917946

The thing with global warming, is well, no one can prove it. As Crichton shows in State of Fear, when you view all the actual data, temperatures have barely budged over the last hundreds of years. In some places they've even gone down. Where they have increased, it can be attributed to the Urban Heat Island affect (cities are hotter because of all the concrete and less trees).

Going back further, scientists can see a general warming in the earth's temperature going back thousands of years, long before we were driving SUVs.

The only constant about climate is that it changes, and it is arrogant to think that if humans weren't here it would be constant. So if the is warming, a tiny tiny bit, saying we're to blame is a pretty big reach. Methane from cow crap I believe causes more "warming" than the CO2 emmissions from all the cars on Earth.

Also, don't call it global warming, you must not have got the marketing memo. It is now called "Global Climate Change" so that they can blame both unseasonably cold and unseasonable warm weather on it.

It annoys me to no end that people blamed Kitrine on global warming, as if global warming forced people to live on the coast, and then the year after we had very few hurricanes. I guess the earth cooled the year after then?

The fact is, again as Crichton points out in his book, there is just as much money behind the environmental lobby as there is behind the oil lobby and research isn't free from the spectre of donor bias just because an environmental organization is paying for it instead of an oil company.

Too often environmentalists can see the forest for the trees. Take compact flourescent lightbulbs (CFLs). These use a fraction of the electricity of incandescent bulbs and last longer and so people are advocating getting them instead...

However... all CFLs contain mercury, and mercury is a horrible poison that gets into our waters. You can't eat many fish from the Great Lakes anymore because of mercury. Pregnant women aren't supposed to eat any fish, from anywhere, period. And yet, all the environmentalists ignore that mercury issue and instead just worry about reducing carbon emmissions. I'll take carbon emmissions over mercury any day. Until they offer easy ways to recycle these bulbs, and tell people not to throw them away, then they shouldn't be telling people to buy them left and right.

I think our dependence on foreign oil is a problem, and I'm for increasing energy efficiency as that helps our economy in many ways, but the overzealousness, narrowmindedness, and propoganda of the environmental movement is bonkers, and they could end up screwing us all over in the end.

[Tony uk]

Chris, Your Back

[DEET]

I have to agree that these things are all being blown way out proportion. What alot of these G.W. theories are leaving out is the fact that the earths history is by far much warmer than what we are experiencing now. Antarctica has spent more time as a tempid climate than it has as a frozen ice block. We are now seeing the end of the ice age and are moving into a warmer more tropical weather pattern. The earth will have even less land mass as it did in the times of the dinosaurs and prehistoric mammals. This scare the heck out of us because man thrives in a colder environment and suffers in a tropical climate, this is medical fact due to the ease of desease to survive in tropical environs. The coast lines will be inundated and people will be forced to move inland, that's why you don't build your house upon the sand. Hurricane katrina was not a natural disaster, florida and the east coast would have had no problem with that storm. Katrina was a prime example of what happens when all levels of the government completley fail it's people. From the presidency all the way down to the cop on the beat it was a complete and total failure of the system of government. Whew!! end rant

[Nativedude]

". . .Who here believes that Global Warming is ruining our forests, maybe even our planet?I myself have done the math, and do not really believe in Global Warming from our polluted world.The Earth is warming, I agree, but it's just nature taking its course. . . "

It is "evolutionary change" plain and simple! Just like when the dinosaurs became extinct. Next we'll hear that the dinosaurs were the cause of their own extinction from the methane gas that they produced, or because they were too large and that caused the volcano to erupt up in Glacier N.P.!

"I beleve in Global warming, the earth is getting hotter due to toxic gasses like C02 going up into the ozone layer but i dont think that the main cause is what politicians say it is. . . ."

Tony, how do you know that the earth is getting hotter because of these C02 gases? Could it be from all of the propaganda put out by the "global warming zealots"?

. . .The Environmental Movement is mostly about politics and putting forth a socialist agenda than anything else anymore. . . .I think our dependence on foreign oil is a problem, and I'm for increasing energy efficiency as that helps our economy in many ways, but the overzealousness, narrowmindedness, and propoganda of the environmental movement is bonkers, and they could end up screwing us all over in the end.

You hit the nail right on the head Chris!!

[Cori]

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I agree that it is the end of the ice Age and stuff, but what I don;t get is that everyone gets so uptight about it.Oh my gosh, the Earth is getting warm, wow, people should be happy, everyone I know personally hates the cold.

[Rick]

Boy, was I right about opinion. Perhaps religion and politics should be next (just kidding).

Why does anyone trust Crichton over anyone else? He's just one more well fed guy out to make money, too. What makes his opinion so special? Or anyone else's for that matter? Frankly, I'm surprised that folks would talk about tree huggers' opinions being motivated by greed then turn around and accept someone else's because it agrees with what they personally believe. I'm glad you have a passion to your belief but don't become so mired in it that you don't see the need to change your opinion if facts go cruising by.

Frankly, I haven't a clue what the true reason for global change is or that it's even happening. No one else on this forum does either. All we have are news reports and individual articles that state one opinion or another. We are simply choosing which report to believe because it's comfortable for us and fits in with our own belief. I'm pretty opened minded about stuff and willing to see how it plays out until someone mentions conspiracy. There is no conspiracy in the bush but if global warming is here and now and as bad as some predict, IT damned sure will be in the bush in changed environment and loss of critters to some extent or another. That could well equate to a change in our lives as well.

Either way, I do try to think green and do what I can like recycle, turn off lights, limit fuel consumption as practical and all those good things.

DEET, I have to disagree with you on Katrina. If you build a city in a fish bowl your populace had better learn to live like fish. It's not someone else's responsibility to protect my tush, it's mine. If the cop on the beat in New Orleans (or any other city) left his job to fend for his family....good for him. I would have, too. After all, they are only people just like you and me.

I'm plumb tuckered out after that.

[Elkchsr]

Follow the money in any of these drum beating scenarios (Spotted Owl for example)

Those beating the drums the hardest are collecting the biggest $$$

When the money dried up for the owl, so did the emergency...

So to will Global warming pass when the fickle population grows tired of throwing $$$ at some thing they have no power to fix and in reality has no bearing on their every day lives...

Some other catastrophe will fill the news media void then to draw peoples attention to

[Rick]

Wouldn't it be a true wonder if half the money and passion shed on global warming were used to feed the hungry in our own country?