Electric Generator, Steam driven

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 09:06 AM

After reading The Second After, and the impact of EMP. I started to think about some potential cheap and effective ways to generate electricity in the case of an EMP event.
In the attached schematic I have drawn a very rough outline of what I am thinking. The items chosen are because they are things that are readily accessible to me (to include a steam tractor a cousin is starting to restore). Older generators are readily available at junk yards or parts stores, the pulley system and rack for the generators should be simple to fabricate. I am also considering a single cylinder steam engine and a wood fired boiler as a source of power (the price will be the determinate). The generator and battery set components will be small enough for one or two men to move and set up.
I know this is a very rough outline, but does anyone see anything here that I am overlooking? Just looking to bounce ideas around.

Be back in a moment with other file

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 09:35 AM

Finally made it

**2dumb2kwit** · 10-05-2009, 12:59 PM

Pal, golf cart batteries will work better than "car" batteries, and you can sometimes get a pretty good deal on them at Sam's Club, but before you get any batteries, I suggest you talk to cowboy. He's the battery dude.

Also, you might enjoy looking around here....http://www.otherpower.com/steamengine.shtml

Those guys do all kinds of elec. generation projects.

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 01:57 PM

you can often get a complete charge controller with it's own rectifier for cheap.

they have become immensely popular for home-built electric generators since green energy has become so trendy.

either way, the charge controller and rectifier will often be cheaper than say, buying a used generator and modifying it, unless you score one heck of a deal.

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Pal, golf cart batteries will work better than "car" batteries, and you can sometimes get a pretty good deal on them at Sam's Club, but before you get any batteries, I suggest you talk to cowboy. He's the battery dude.

Also, you might enjoy looking around here....http://www.otherpower.com/steamengine.shtml

Those guys do all kinds of elec. generation projects.

THat could be with the batteries. I was just thinking that I would try to stay with whatever would be around. That way I would not be storing alot of "what if" stuff. However after looking at your site, it is what I was envisioning ( or something alot like it) !!! And thanks alot, this cheap project may take on a life of its own

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by canid

you can often get a complete charge controller with it's own rectifier for cheap.

they have become immensely popular for home-built electric generators since green energy has become so trendy.

either way, the charge controller and rectifier will often be cheaper than say, buying a used generator and modifying it, unless you score one heck of a deal.

I have to confess ignorance. Can you break it down what is a "charge controller and a rectifier" ? And please type slowly, I am in above my head

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 03:22 PM

a simple charge controller is a circuit which limits input current to the batteries, to prevent significant over-voltage charging and overcharging a full battery. more elaborate ones regulate other things, such as too much current being drawn.

a rectifier is a necessary device which converts the AC current generated by an alternator [generator] into DC current, needed by the battery.

**crashdive123** · 10-05-2009, 03:41 PM

Canid - did you ever make any progress on the wind turbine you were designing?

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 03:42 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_controller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 03:45 PM

not yet. i've been too busy.

my garage stole a pile of my friend's Neodymium magnets last year, and those things are expensive.

i do have a trolling motor i'm using to make the small scale prototype, but i left it up north when i moved and won't have it back for a while.

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by canid

a simple charge controller is a circuit which limits input current to the batteries, to prevent significant over-voltage charging and overcharging a full battery. more elaborate ones regulate other things, such as too much current being drawn.

a rectifier is a necessary device which converts the AC current generated by an alternator [generator] into DC current, needed by the battery.

Thank you for your patience, I think I got it. To keep in the post "EMP theme" (where things with circuit boards/ "chips" are destroyed) . Are these available as analog type devices that would not be damaged by EMP?

PS: Just say the sites you posted , Thanks,

**Rick** · 10-05-2009, 04:29 PM

If you are using 12VDC generators from an automobile then I suspect they will have built in regulators. If they don't, you will have to include a regulator for the batteries. That does exactly what Canid described with the charge controller. Once you do that or go with the charge controller/rectifier that Canid outlined then you are back to being susceptible to EMP.

You need to be very clear on what you want to accomplish. EMP is a gray area to begin with since everything is theory only. There has been NO practical widespread EMP events for the theories to be tested. So whatever you put together might or might not do what is intended.

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 04:35 PM

not everything with a circuit is destroyed in a strong EMP. generally, only things with fine, delicate circuitry are damaged. this happens because the EM field is strong enough to induce a current in the circiut great enough to break it. this could happen for example in a transistor along a circuit with a lot of wiring in it. the current is induced through the wiring, and tried to pass through the high resistence of the transistor, causing it to burn out like a fuse.

if you are close enough, for example, to a nuclear detonation to burn out a 12v 3a rectifier [probably good for a single 12v. battery charging system], i think you would have bigger problems than powering electrical devices in the immediate future.

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

If you are using 12VDC generators from an automobile then I suspect they will have built in regulators. If they don't, you will have to include a regulator for the batteries. That does exactly what Canid described with the charge controller. Once you do that or go with the charge controller/rectifier that Canid outlined then you are back to being susceptible to EMP.

You need to be very clear on what you want to accomplish. EMP is a gray area to begin with since everything is theory only. There has been NO practical widespread EMP events for the theories to be tested. So whatever you put together might or might not do what is intended.

I think my goal is to be able to use car batteries to set up a way to use simple lights, or other simple electric devices that would not be fried by EMP. I agree there is no exact science to what the effects would be on EMP. But the premise set forth in the book I mentioned in my first post and subsequent reading seems to indicate that that items with "chips" and "complex circuitry" could be adversely impacted. And "old style" analog type devices would probably stay working. Also the type of "outfit" I am thinking of could be used in normal times. As you can tell from my posts so far, I am not much of an electrical techie, so I am trying to glean ideas to make this as simple as possible (Ex: car batteries and generators from old cars) as possible.

**Rick** · 10-05-2009, 04:40 PM

I think the components you'll have to worry about are the diodes. That is, after all, about all a rectifier is.

**canid** · 10-05-2009, 04:40 PM

also remember that if there is nothing for the circuit to ground out to by arcing, there is no substantial current flow in such an event. insulative shielding of a storage area/container could probably protect even microcircuitry from a substantial EM field.

**Rick** · 10-05-2009, 04:43 PM

Whatever you decide on, a Faraday cage will go a long way in protecting whatever you put together. There are some theories that suggest modern automobiles would be perfectly fine because the body of the vehicle will act as a Faraday cage and shield the components.

EDIT: I was typing when Canid posted. What he describes is a Faraday cage.

**Pal334** · 10-05-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by canid

not everything with a circuit is destroyed in a strong EMP. generally, only things with fine, delicate circuitry are damaged. this happens because the EM field is strong enough to induce a current in the circiut great enough to break it. this could happen for example in a transistor along a circuit with a lot of wiring in it. the current is induced through the wiring, and tried to pass through the high resistence of the transistor, causing it to burn out like a fuse.

if you are close enough, for example, to a nuclear detonation to burn out a 12v 3a rectifier [probably good for a single 12v. battery charging system], i think you would have bigger problems than powering electrical devices in the immediate future.

I agree with what you said . What I am trying to do is something simple, using common storage devices (car batteries) and with the least complicated electronics as possible to improve its chances of survival (hence a single stroke steam engine) . And you are right if I was that close to a nuke, I would have many more important things to worry about.