gun for backpacking

[glockcop]

4-6" s/s .44 mag and up. Smith or Ruger. Also make sure you are in really good shape so you can outrun your buddies. I know weight is a deciding factor for ya so think about this for a minute...That gun won't feel so heavy once it saves your life. Carry a BIG gun If you are in an area where YOU are not the top of the food chain. Nuff said! Just the same I'd rather have a 12g slug gun or rifle.

[TangoFoxtrot]

Me and some buddies are going to go and do thwe tahoe-yosemite trail either this summer or next. Since it iis a long trip, and is through bear country we want to have a couple of guns; but since weight is an issue we haven't found a gun that is light enough and has a heavy enough caliber to defend from bears. Any one have any ideas??

Nothing lass than a high cap. .45 ACP or 10 mm in bear country.

[NightShade]

Nothing lass than a high cap. .45 ACP or 10 mm in bear country.

.45 ACP could handle Black bears but you will have to unload multiple clips, Grizzly's on the other hand... you'll be wishing you brought at least a .357... but I would go even bigger than that!!.. I know a guy who is an amazingly accomplished pistol shooter... he went black bear hunting with a customized .45 and told me he had to unload 2 clips into it... said the second he started shooting he was wishing he brought something bigger.. and this guy LOVES his .45

[Rick]

I think Robert Rogers and Coot had the best answers to the question...

How about carrying pepper spray? The problem with guns is that A) They are dangerous for the inexperienced B) A shot may serve to enrage a bear rather than stop it C) it may be difficult to deploy a gun in time if the event happens unexpectedly D) Park officials, and others, may frown upon heavy artillery E) you may hesitate to use a gun on a person or animal (its one thing to talk about doing it, quite another to actually do it). However with spray, since it is not deadly force, you are more likely to use it F) the list goes on and on.

There is little need to be afraid of bears in the first place - you are safer in the wilderness than you are walking down the street of any city. This is a fact.

Skip the firearms completely. If you have to ask you aren't experienced enough to hit with a heavy handgun, rifle is too obvious and neither is a guarantee of a stopping hit. Buy the spray and everyone keep it on them at all times but don't depend on it. Caution and reading a little about the animals to learn their habits is #1, but don't depend on any animal or person for that matter doing anything predictable except the Ranger who will frown on your artillery. Just my opinion and wasn't trying to insult your intelligence.

I thought I would bump up their answers in case anyone is just reading the title and the last answers. Guns and bears don't mix unless you're hunting them.

[kx250kev]

FMJ ammo is not generally a good choice for stopping raging beasties. It's cheap. It can punch paper targets with aplomb. It is however, not a good fight-stopper. Just ask soldiers who are required by binding international treaty to use only FMJ ammo in all their small arms.

I dissagree completely. FMJ, especially flat nose FMJ is great at deep penetration of flesh and bone. Granted you won't create a large wound channel because there is almost no expansion. Maybe JHP would be better on the battlefield, but a head shot with FMJ is goint to provide true stopping power, but shot placement is key. And let's face it, the only way a small caliber handgun is going exibit any "stopping power" on a large beasty is via a head shot. 15+ rounds into the body of a bear would provide mixed results. Head shots are the only shots I will take in this defensive situation, so FMJ is the best choice for me. In fact, I just picked up on some Win NATO 9mm ammo that is 10% hotter load than most 9mm Luger ammo per label. Now if we were talking hunting, I would choose a completely different gun and caliber.

[Rick]

Did you know that a bear can scamper along at 30 miles an hour. Now I'll give you the fact that a bear has a really big head. Really big bears have really big heads. But that head bobbing while he's running 30 mph directly at you along with the adrenalin in your veins and the poop running down your pant leg is probably going to affect your aim just a smidgen. Well, maybe not yours but I know I'd be shakin' so hard that gun would probably shake to pieces. The bear would have to stop and help me pick up all the parts and put it back together just to be somewhat sporting about eating me. Nah, I think I'd stick with spray. At least that way if worst comes to worst I can use it on myself sort of like a marinade.

[kx250kev]

Yep, they are quick, no doubt, but I don't see how that negates me carrying a handgun? I have spray too; I'm not against it. In fact the gun would be my last line of defense. Bobbin' bear heads aren't an issue for me because the bear would need to be in my face, or chewing on me before I'd begin to unload.

[SARKY]

TF.... a .45acp won't do squat to an angry bear except piss it off more. A 10mm with a flat/truncated cone bullet design pushing the top end of 10mm velocity is a better choice.
A .41 mag, or .44 mag are much better choices. Hard cast heavy bullets in both cases.

[glockcop]

Sarky, I agree that a .44 mag would be a better choice, but IMO a .45 ACP would do a alot more than just piss off a 250 lb. black bear. I would carry 230 gr. flat meplate FMJ .45 ACP ammo for greater penetration and "shock value". Round meplate FMJ .45 ACP ammo would be alot less disruptive to tissue. Brown bears are a different story. People have been using the .45 ACP to stop 250 lb enraged humans for 100 years. From my understanding black bears are alot smaller and are no where as tough as their brown bear cousins. From what I've seen and heard they go down pretty predictably fast with deer calbers like .243 on up. I also know people, myself included, who have dropped deer in their tracks with 9mm, .40 (me), .357 mag (me) and .45. I see no reason they would act differently with proper loads in black bear flesh. They would NOT be my first choice for deer or black bear but IMO one should not feel naked in black bear country with a .45 ACP with flat meplate FMJ's. Maybe a little under armed but not naked. I would definately feel next to naked in brown bear country with anything smaller than a .44 mag. Best

[NightShade]

Sarky, I agree that a .44 mag would be a better choice, but IMO a .45 ACP would do a alot more than just piss off a 250 lb. black bear. I would carry flat meplate FMJ .45 ACP ammo for greater penetration. Brown bears are a different story. People have been using the .45 ACP to stop 250 lb enraged humans for 100 years. From my understanding black bears are alot smaller and are no where as tough as their brown bear cousins. From what I've seen and heard they go down pretty predictably fast with deer calbers like .243 on up. I also know people, myself included, who have dropped deer in their tracks with 9mm, .40 (me), .357 mag (me) and .45. I see no reason they would act differently with proper loads in black bear flesh. They would NOT be my first choice for deer or black bear but IMO one should not feel naked in black bear country with a .45 ACP with flat meplate FMJ's. Maybe a little under armed but not naked. I would definately feel next to naked in brown bear country with anything smaller than a .44 mag. Best

Equating shootin humans to bears is seriously flawed..... Bears have thicker hides and muscles than every human who was ever shot... Plus what if its 600 lbs rather than 250.... Black bears are smaller than browns but can still get pretty big....

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

Personally I would leave the gun at home not only is it a pain to carry usually against the law also but is just really not needed most bear encounters result in the bear hightailing it in the opposite direction. And unless you are quite proficient and have nerves of steel your chances of stopping a charging bear are slim more likely to just agitate it even more juss my opinion.

[Sourdough]

Speaking from first hand experience of having either personally harvested, or guided hunters to and assisted with the harvesting of about 190 bears, of which about 130 were Black Bears, and about 60 were Grizzly/Brown Bears. I can report that the range of terminal ballistic performance of a wide range of cartridges is less than one would expect, much less.

[hunter63]

I have hunted in northern Wisconsin for years, have smelled a couple of bears, but never seen one in the woods other than attacking the bird feeders at a friends residence, the dump and, a couple crossing a road.

They are not on high on my list of stuff to worry about.
I have seen the signs that say, "You are in bear country, wear little tinkle bells, and carry pepper spray."

I have also heard the you can idenify the type of bear by the scat:

Black bear: has hair, berry seeds, fiberious material in it.
Grizzly bear: smells like pepper spray, and has little bells in it.

[glockcop]

Equating shootin humans to bears is seriously flawed..... Bears have thicker hides and muscles than every human who was ever shot... Plus what if its 600 lbs rather than 250.... Black bears are smaller than browns but can still get pretty big....

If you think that a 230 gr. FMJ from a .45 ACP will not reach the boiler room of a black bear with a thoratic shot, than YOU are seriously flawed. With 25" to 30'' of penetration in ballistic jell you will definately get in where it counts on a black bear. Do a little research. Last I checked Black bears did not have 25" to 30" thick abdominal walls or skulls. I am not talking about hunting situations with shoulder shots. I am talking about using a .45 ACP as a "get off me" weapon with the muzzle against it's head or ribs. That bear will definately know it was in a fight. I said it would not be my first choice but I would not feel naked in black bear country with a FMJ .45 ACP. I would still rather have at least a .44 mag though. Brown bears are another scenario. Howitzer possibly . Also it is my understanding that the vast majority of black bear attacks are females with cubs. They rarely exceed 300 lbs.

[NightShade]

Ehhhhh..... Research huh... Well point blank ..yeah do sum damage.. If you're still alive....penetration isn't as important as energy transfer! A good ballistic tipped inner bonded round is what you would have best luck with..unless the bear has a bulletproof vest... We're talking a rampaging bear not gell... U wouldn't b naked with 45 but I have had experiences with bears and a get off me shot is too little too late

[glockcop]

All the "energy transfer" in the world is USELESS without penetration, Dude. Penetration is MORE important than energy transfer. I can tell ya this much, a spear will have roughly the "energy transfer" of a .32 ACP but will penetrate alot further. Primitive man did pretty good with Mammoths and spears even though there "energy transfer" was so low. Even 3000 ft lbs of energy is not gonna do much but inflict a flesh wound if it only penetrates a couple of inches. Yah, do some research! There are plenty of survivors that used a "get off me " gun. That I am very sure of. A few in the ribs will get that bear's attention off you and onto some berries. Read my last two posts. OK , for you, I'll say it a THIRD time: "I would still rather have at least a .44 mag though". Did ya get it this time?

[NightShade]

I totally understand what you're saying but my preference is to drop em before they get on top of me... They WILL keep running thru to you if they are mad enough... There are plenty of rounds that give u penetration and energy transfer... Not saying you are wrong... But waiting to shoot till they are on top of you is not a great tactic IMHO

[crashdive123]

Some of you people need to seriously consider bear spray.

[glockcop]

I can't agree more with your last post Nightshade. I would not want to wait until they were on top of me either. This whole subject was in reply to Sarky who said that a .45 ACP would just "Piss off" a bear and I rebuttled in disagreement. I would not go hunting black bear with a .45 ACP, it is the wrong tool for the job, but I would not feel naked with a .45 ACP FMJ as last ditch armament against black bear. Read post #121. That is where I got in this discussion. Stay safe.

[Sourdough]

some Of You People Need To Seriously Consider Bear Spray.

Hair Spray.........?