Fish Poisons

[Rick]

Jay - In the case of your friend, where he is on the move and attempting to get from point A to point B then your options, as you know, become a bit more limited. You mentioned he was trying to "get back to his lines" so there may have been an evasion aspect to his efforts. Just keep in mind that if someone is being tracked then using poison for fishing may give away his location if all the fish are not gathered. Dead fish in the water would sure be out of place especially if he tracked to that location. In addition, you might harvest more fish than you could reasonably eat so decaying carcasses could also be a give away.

It would not be as successful in free flowing water because the poison would be diluted but those fish that were affected would float downstream and might provide a trail directly to him.

A fish spear might be a better option if the river is shallow and the fish somewhat abundant. It would provide him a more selective means of targeting individual prey rather than killing everything within a given area.

Just some thoughts.

[Jay]

Jay - In the case of your friend, where he is on the move and attempting to get from point A to point B then your options, as you know, become a bit more limited. You mentioned he was trying to "get back to his lines" so there may have been an evasion aspect to his efforts. Just keep in mind that if someone is being tracked then using poison for fishing may give away his location if all the fish are not gathered. Dead fish in the water would sure be out of place especially if he tracked to that location. In addition, you might harvest more fish than you could reasonably eat so decaying carcasses could also be a give away.

It would not be as successful in free flowing water because the poison would be diluted but those fish that were affected would float downstream and might provide a trail directly to him.

A fish spear might be a better option if the river is shallow and the fish somewhat abundant. It would provide him a more selective means of targeting individual prey rather than killing everything within a given area.

Just some thoughts.

Rick you're right on all counts, but in this particular instance, the trackers lost him on the 4th day. I guess they couldnt spare the time and manpower.
I allways tell them to evaluate the benefit against the danger. In this case the danger had passed and he could have uses some of the skills if he had them. He was in one of the programs I did last year and ever so grateful for the knowledge he gained from it. he provided some very valuable insites for me. (Quite a bit of difference between E&E and survival it seems) Survival is taught to them in a very basic way. they know some of the theory but have never done practical work such as bow drill, hand drill,or other alternate methods of making fire, eddible plants, poisonous plants, medicinal plants,tracking,trapping etc.
I keep carrying out various experiments with a couple of friends and catalouging the info so they can pass it down the line. there is a very real need for it.

[Rick]

Jay - In E&E you have to become the jungle. Little time to worry about food. It's survival just at a different level. IMHO.

If the search had continued into day 9 or 10, or the fellow would otherwise not have been able to utilize fish poison, would it be possible to acquire two 2 meter pieces of bamboo, split each of them about a meter and insert either grass or some broad leaf into the bamboo forming a seine or type of basket that could then be moved through the water? You might not capture larger fish but you might be able to capture some smaller fish or frogs or even fresh water creel if you have them. It would be some protein for little expended energy. I would also think there would be plenty of insects and grubs that he could have taken advantage of while on the move.

I'm not certain what the climate was like but I do know SL has mountainous regions as well as lowlands. Would something like a Dakota Fire Pit also be worth teaching? It offers both warmth and low light and is taught to our Air Force pilots.

http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Skills/Fire/Fire.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYN6CmYFOW0

Finally, I would think bamboo would be one of his greatest assets and more versatile tools. From spears to water carriers to edible shoots.

Just some thoughts.

[Jay]

Rick thanks, the Dakota fire pit was something I didn't know. Will try it out.
Bamboo is available in the wet zone. This guy was operating in the dry zone where it isn't freely available. Ditto cane. However there’s plenty of twigs, vines etc that he could have used. again no practical knowledge!
A simple way to catch freshwater shrimp, crayfish etc is to cut a small bush and place it in the stream weighted down with a rock. leave it overnight an in the morning there’s plenty of critters sheltering or nibbling at the leaves. If you can make a basket or use a shirt on a forked stick you can scoop them out. Or just put your hands under the bush and heave the whole thing on to the shore. you have to be quick. I've done it several times.
We have 3 main climatic zones and the jungle in each one is different. When you add altitude to the equation it breaks down in to even smaller ecosystems.

Is it ok if I PM you sometime?

[Rick]

Of course!

[Gray Wolf]

Jay a question, have you ever eaten or do you know of anyone who has eaten a Flying Fox Bat? They're huge, about a 5' - 6' wingspan with a big 3lb body. They're a fruit eating Bat that has a face like a fox, roost in the trees, and are out during the daytime. I know that they live in Indonesia, Asia and a few other tropical jungles.

[Gray Wolf]

Their also called Fruit Bats.

[Jay]

Their also called Fruit Bats.

Grey Wolf,
Yes I have eaten flying fox. we have 3 species. and some 27 smaller insectivorous ones.
Bit of a strong musty smell to the meat. otherwise almost like chicken. Trick it to use plenty of spices. Also very good roasted. Maximum wing span I have seen and measured was 4' 11". Make d..m sure they are quite dead before handling. They can give a very nasty bite. face just like a fox. They are known carriers of rabies.
I have at one time or another eaten a lot of unusual things including several species of snake.

[Gray Wolf]

Grey Wolf,
I have at one time or another eaten a lot of unusual things including several species of snake.

I actually like eating many different species of snakes, again, depends on how you spice and cook it. There's also a 2nd benefit to it, making many things from the skins.

Back to the flying fox, what is the native way of catching them?

[Jay]

The first thing to do is to find a roosting tree. They have fixed roosts that they come back to each morning, The smaller bats seem to preffer caves, and dark nooks and crannies in rocks, inside eaves of tall buildings, abandoned huts in the jungle.

It's not too difficult to find the roost. the constant chatter and the smell, and droppings give it away. People, usually in a group of 5-6 will hide in the underbrush at daylight. in about an hour or so the bickering and jostling is over and the bats start to quieten down and just hang there like ripe fruit. (Usually around 9.30am) this is the time the hunters come out of the bush with short heavy throwing sticks.
A well aimed throwing stick can bring down a bat in one go. If you are fairly quiet you can get off several throws before the whole colony is disturbed.

Some kids I know, who live on the fringe of the jungles in the south actually climb up and grab the bats by the neck and bash them against the tree.

once the colony is disturbed it'll take over an hour to settlel down again.

I used to pick them off with a shotgun. (Have an old Harrigton and Richardson "topper M 48" single barrel in 16g. I think its manufactured in Massachusetts.) #4 or better still #6 shot will drop several.
Why the special interst in fruit bats may I ask?

The krait is the only snake I have found unpalatable so far. Very rubbery and bitter.

[Gray Wolf]

Why the special interst in fruit bats may I ask?

I had read about how big they were and that they only feed on fruit, like many things we eat, the taste of it can depend on what it eats or where it grows. Also that they roost out in the trees. I had also read that a study done in Hawaii was trying to link different brain disease's with eating the Fruit Bat.

Thanks for the info.

[Sarge47]

Against the law to kill a bat in Illinois. Freakin' thing should be the State Bird!

[Rick]

My neighbor has bat boxes for roosting. Cool as hell. I don't need an entire colony but it's nice to see a bunch of 'em around.

[Jay]

I had read about how big they were and that they only feed on fruit, like many things we eat, the taste of it can depend on what it eats or where it grows. Also that they roost out in the trees. I had also read that a study done in Hawaii was trying to link different brain disease's with eating the Fruit Bat.

Thanks for the info.

You're very welcome Grey Wolf.
I wanted to attach some pics for you but couldnt get it figured out. My relationship with computers is at best "stormy"
Now if it was some thing I could catch in a snare.....................
Thanks for the tip about the Hawaian study. I did'nt know that. I'll look it up. should be a paper on it somewhere on the net.

Rick, If you had a whole colony of fruit bats within 1/4 of a mile, you'd be singing a different tune.
One of the greatest threats to bats here in SL is that people cut down roosting trees that have been used for generations because of the noise and the smell.

[Rick]

You bet. "Within a 1/4 of a mile," is the key. I just don't want them right around the house. There is probably nothing that rids the area of insects faster than bats. Little eating machines.

[Jay]

Hi. These are some pics from SL. Enjoy. will post some more later.

[Jay]

All these pics were taken by friends of mine.

[corndog-44]

Jay. Thanks for the pics...I really enjoyed them. Beginning to look like "National Geographic" on this forum .

[Rick]

Truly inspiring, Jay. Excellent pics.

[Gray Wolf]

Wow, Thanks Jay!

How big are those bats in the pic's, they look Huge!!! And their faces look like dogs.... and their bodies like little bears.