Animal Warnings

[Jay]

Hi,
Do you have many animals and birds that warn you of danger in your forests? For example if a bear, big cat or other people are on the move or hunting do other animals(birds, small mammals) indicate the fact?

[Rick]

Jay, that may be a universal truth. Tree squirrels will "bark" incessantly as a warning to other squirrels when a threat is present. Most water fowl are really good at vocalizing.
Other birds will, of course, take flight at the slightest provocation. Bullfinches seem to constantly dart in front of you in twos and threes as you walk through the woods.

On the other hand, frogs will fall silent. I've been out at night when the entire woods fell silent. No insect sounds. Mosquitoes even seem to stop buzzing. That can be one creepy feeling.

[Jay]

Great! that's part of what I ment. Is there enough of a difference in the sound and behaviour to at least tentativley identify the predator?
Our monkeys, the grey langur in pariticular has 4 fairly distinct patterns of vocalisation for leopard, python,& birds of prey, human.

Birds such as drongos scimitar babblers will actually follow a leopard or one of the other cats making an awful row. you can follow the leopard's movenents just by listening to the brids.

Same for Sambhur, spotted deer and barking deer. Barking deer is generally timid and will bark at the slightest disturbance. but if it sees a leopard it will watch and keep barking as long as the animal is in sight. some times even for a few minutes after the animal has gone. Ditto sambhur & spotted deer. On the other hand if only startled by a sound the bark is repeted only 2-3 times..and has a kind of doubtfulness to it. (best way I can describe it)
I find that crickets are another good indicator.

Have you noticed a differnce, i.e. intensity,pitch, etc?

[Rick]

Ditto on the crickets. Forgot about them.

Where I live, the only wild predators are fox, a few bob cats, many more feral cats, and coyote. Birds of prey include hawks, falcons, and (lucky for us) eagles. The eagle numbers are still quite low but they are increasing.

When I lived in Southern Illinois, there were a few wolf but very very rare and the even more rare cougar. I've never seen either a wolf or cougar in the woods but have seen tracks. One of my buddies killed a wolf (made me sick), which made all the papers and a dead cougar was found in the woods near where I lived. There are also threats from domesticated dogs and cats.

You don't have to travel very far to see that list change quite a bit. We are mostly farmland in the Midwest but more heavily forested areas lie to the north, east and south.

Just some background so you understand the geography.

Squirrels will get pretty close to the ground when they see a non climbing predator. They will come down a tree to within five or six feet of a fox, dog or coyote and hang there barking. For cats, they generally stay up in the tree pretty high off the ground. If I'm out and hear a squirrel start to chatter, I'll check where they are. If they are down low then I know it's probably a fox or dog. Their bark is generally intermittent with a ground threat. They will get amazingly close to a bird of prey, however, I've watched squirrels get as close as eight or ten feet from a hawk regardless of how high or low the bird was sitting. Their bark is much more frantic and constant with a hawk than with ground dwellers.

Coyote don't seem to bother water fowl too much. The birds will move away from the shore but they vocalize in a softer voice unless one just surprises them and they are in a panic. In my experience, that's pretty rare. Fox, on the other hand, seems to get them going more. They are louder and their calls more frequent. I've never seen either one go in the water after a duck or goose unless they had little ones with them and they were at the shore line. An adult goose can be pretty aggressive with a fox especial if they are on their nest and they will let the world know when that happens. Very loud and boisterous. Very strong vocalizations. That's pretty unmistakable if its nesting season.

If anyone thinks animals don't communicate, they should spend some time in the woods.

[Jay]

Thanks Rick, this is exactly what I'm intersted in.
Our palm squirrels behave in excactly the same way....I one saw a pair mob a rat snake. They even nipped its tail. They gave the poor snake such a hard time that it just let go and just fell out of the tree.

Great info...thanks again. If anyone else has similar experiences to Rick's I like to hear them if I may.

[Rick]

Jay - One side note that I've looked for and not been able to find any documentation on. Since many (most I guess) birds see in ulta-violet, I've often wondered if they don't communicate warnings with feather displays. I know they certainly do for territory and mating. The common sparrow is a really good example. They have a darker crest on their chest that happens to reflect ultra violet light. The larger the crest, the more light it reflects, and the more dominant the bird. It's like a beacon or a flashlight to the other birds even in the middle of the day. We just can't see it. I've often wondered if some flashing of that crest or some other similar display as a warning doesn't cause them to take flight instead of just one following the leader as it appears to us to be.

[trax]

quite possibly the most incorrect cliche ever. As far as animal communication goes, I recommend anyone go out and study a flock of geese. They have specific warning calls, mating calls, landing and take off calls. Scout geese have specific calls to bring the rest of the flock in.

A mother eagle on a nest of eggs or young will call out to her mate if she feels threatened. She'll fly off the nest and circle around, but the call if for the male to come back. Ravens are the number one aggressor to the eagle, followed by humans. Ravens are a lot easier for the eagles to deal with, though.

Squirrels and chipmunks I've found are the best to count on if there's a predator in the area.

[Rick]

I have a couple of duck calls and my 14 month old grandson just figured out how to make them work this week. He almost has the ticka ticka feed call going on. Except he has them backwards and sucks on 'em. Pretty funny.

[trax]

they say geese are the best guard animals you can have in your yard. They're extremely territorial and they raise an unholy ruckus at intruders and they stay watch day and night. Also they'll attack an intruder, but if the intruder's on the ball that just means you provided him with Christmas dinner....

[carcajou garou]

Sometimes....things just go quiet...real quiet....for no visible reason that when I really start paying attention..when the "bush people" are listening

[trax]

Sometimes....things just go quiet...real quiet....for no visible reason that when I really start paying attention..when the "bush people" are listening

Yeah, I put some thought into that posting. I don't wanna talk about it.

[Smok]

Yes " bush people" very good way to put it ,I like that ...Ultra-Violet I sometime think what else do we not see ??

[Rick]

You guys have guineas up there? Crazy loud devils. Even kill snakes.

[Rick]

Good point, Smok. If you really think about. We are probably the least equipped animal to survive. Good surround hearing, lousy pinpoint hearing. Great depth perception. Lousy distance vision and it's limited to a small spectrum. Can't smell anything farther than our armpits, even then it has to be a pretty strong odor. Just one big honkin' brain. Ain't we lucky?

[Jay]

Sometimes....things just go quiet...real quiet....for no visible reason that when I really start paying attention..when the "bush people" are listening

I know the feeling well. the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I dont ever ignore it. Some times I never see anything..but I back out of the area quietly and the feeling subsides and the jungle returns to normal after awhile. Cant really explain it. Other times I have become aware of elephant or bear in the bush just a few meters away. Would surely have walked smack into them if I had continued on my way.
thats why being in tune with you surroundings is vital to survival.

[Rick]

I have been trying to remember which movie this really great scene comes from. I think it's the Deer Hunter. Some may remember this. In the States, a young man is getting ready to leave for Viet Nam and one of the guys with him has just returned. They are with their girls and getting ready to go inside a store. The kid is sitting in the car and all hopped up about making his first kill and the seasoned guy grabs him and tells him to close his eyes and shut up.

"Hear that?" the older guy asks.
"What?" asks the kid.
"Nothing. That's what death sounds like in the jungle. When you hear that you are about to die."

Or something along those lines.

[Jay]

Jay - One side note that I've looked for and not been able to find any documentation on. Since many (most I guess) birds see in ulta-violet, I've often wondered if they don't communicate warnings with feather displays. I know they certainly do for territory and mating. The common sparrow is a really good example. They have a darker crest on their chest that happens to reflect ultra violet light. The larger the crest, the more light it reflects, and the more dominant the bird. It's like a beacon or a flashlight to the other birds even in the middle of the day. We just can't see it. I've often wondered if some flashing of that crest or some other similar display as a warning doesn't cause them to take flight instead of just one following the leader as it appears to us to be.

Your are absolutly right Rick,
Now that I come to think of it I have never heard of birds communicating danger through color display. Strange since their cousins the reptiles use it widely. Maybe like you say we just cant see it. Would be fantastic topic or research if the protocols can be established and proper equipment found.

[Rick]

Jay - I think there is literally a whole world out there humans know nothing about because we can't see it or hear it. From ultra-violet plummage to infrasonic elephant calls.

[Jay]

Jay - I think there is literally a whole world out there humans know nothing about because we can't see it or hear it. From ultra-violet plummage to infrasonic elephant calls.

Have you read "Silent Thunder" by Katy Payne? Some good insights insights into infrasound and elephant behaviour.

[hunty18]

I'm a big deer hunter and I've learned a lot about how deer communicate through watching them. Whenever deer hear something they think might be not right or out of place they will lift there heads. Whenever you watch a group of deer, you will notice this if you pay attention, If one deer raises it's head then all the other deer will lift their heads and watch it. Just a deer raising it's head tells all the others that "hey something might not be right here". If that same deer thinks that it is okay, it will flap it's tail, telling the rest that it was nothing. Then they all go back to feeding. If that deer knows something is out of place, then it will raise it's tail, and then off they all go.