emergency handling and basic understanding of a Commericial Airliner
Hello,
Well if anyone wanted to learn about flying a commercial airliner in an emergency situation or were ever curious about questions. I am sorry that is the only survival contribution I can make. I can explain instruments to you and what things do. Not sure that is a big help but it may be helpful.
Rob L
You're kiddin', right?
I'd LOVE to learn as much as you want to post about this subject!
“Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
W. Edwards Deming
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
General John Stark
Yes Ken,God, I hope people wouldn't think we would want them to think we have that little faith, that we would need passengers to fly our aircraft.hahaha very funny thought though. But it was in reference to the fact, that no one would want to learn how to fly a plane in an emergency, they would hope we would still be in control
However, I would be willing to answer, basic questions on a serious note, but do reserve the right, to choose to not answer certain things for security reasons.
Rob L
Last edited by Airbus340; 08-29-2009 at 04:53 PM.
Bottom line - I'll fly in a six passanger plane over an airliner any day of the week. Yep, I've read the statistics.
I know that YOU are highly trained to perform a very difficult job. I know that you fly the thing and aren't responsible for other parts of the operation.
However, you ride up front.
From MY perspective (in my seat, so to speak) all I'm doing is riding in a glorified cattle-car, because that's how ALL airlines treat passengers today. I used to enjoy flying. For the last 15 years, I only do it out of necessity.
The attitude of, and service provided by, the entire industry sucks.
Nonetheless, I'm sure that there are many things we could learn about airliner operation that would be useful. Radio operation - how to contact air traffic controllers, etc.
How many times have non-pilots successfully landed a plane?
“Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
W. Edwards Deming
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
General John Stark
Wow! Ken,
now please tell me how you really feel
in 22 yrs of flying as a commercial pilot I have accomplished that successfully. so overall I am very proud of the job me and my colleagues do, despite what we face that hinders us. Maintenance, staff, administration, ATC, weather, poor private pilots, malfunctions, cutbacks and older equipment without upgrades.
As far as your question to my knowledge none, that were completely untrained. Some have that had some experience, but none that I know of otherwise.
Rob L
Originally Posted by Ken
Last edited by Airbus340; 08-29-2009 at 06:01 PM.
Any person, trained or untrained can land any aircraft made. It's that successful part that sometimes gets in the way though.
I have a question, I've got 10,000+ hours as a flight engineer in P-3 Orions and about 1,000 of that is in the left seat. The Orion uses cables and hydralics, so how does the "feel' of the flight controls differ in a fly by wire?
I know what hunts you.
welcome airbus 340. i know u post ur thread with humor,but as a person with limited hrs(25)25 yrs ago in 152,172, and airo 100,i often wonderd if i could take the left seat and make a difference in a jumbo jet with no crew..with 150 to 250 people abored,shurly there would be more qualified,ex jet jocks,even a cfi2.but id try.if i could change to 121.5 ,i think i could declare a mayday and get some help..landing at 70 vrs 170 is a whole new set of rules. nice to have u abored, im sure u will have many questions to answer..
OK Ken,
Let me try to help abit, every a/c type is different, especially between the Boeing, MD, Airbus and other more obscure models like Russian Antonovs or Tupolevs etc.
Ok lets start with some basic info, the center section between the pilots is called the pedestal. this is in almost every type of commercial aircraft where your radios will sit. In the A340 and A320 series that I fly there is a redundant set of radios in the overhead and on the F/O (first officer's side of the pedestal) the photo I have provided is an example of a radio.
On the radio you will see many words such as VHF/UHF COM 1 Com 2 Com 3 VOR 1 VOR 2 ADF etc all you are interested in is the one that say COM 1. Now on that radio ensure that the dial is turned to say COM 1 now you will see a set of numbers in the display something like 122.80 these are frequency numbers.
COM 1 is Communication Radio 1 and COM 2 means that radio is set to a second frequency. DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING OTHER THAN COM RADIOS! you change the radio frequency by turning the (IAD) International air distress frequency 121.5 which is where our COM 2 radios are almost always set and the Military (MAD) is 243. Put on the Capt's head set, you will see a button Now if you begin transmitting on the 121.5 frequency you will hear the word "ON GUARD" This means you are on the emergency so at that point you will clearly say whatever your Airline is and flight number example.
This is AIR CANADA Flight 4307 To New York PAN,PAN,(First use Pan to show you are not in immediate danger at that moment) MAYDAY,MAYDAY (This then shows them that you however are imminent danger and need immediate assistance) I am declaring an Emergency I am state your name,...... I am a passenger and not a trained pilot.The pilots have been shot (for example) 1 Dead, 1 Incapacitated, we have control of the plane. At this point you will say 6 things to them:
1: Look at the centre of the console you will see something with numbers it will say Speed Heading Altitude and V/S plus other buttons DO NOT TOUCH THIS! Only read to them the numbers example you say the Autopilot system (Airbus FCU) says Speed .82 Heading --- Altitude 36000 V/S---
(the --- means the plane is following a pre programmed format and is in automated mode)
2: You look to your far left from Capt seat and there are 2 TV Screens/monitors in front of you. On far left screen (Screen 1) Has a blue top and brown/green bottom and white line through thats PFD (Primary Flight Display) numbers on left vertically are Speed and on the Right show Altitude
(Tell radio these numbers by saying PFD shows speed .82 holding and Altitude 36000 and holding (holding is if its not going up or down) otherwise you would say climbing or descending.The white line in middle is you.
The 2nd screen on the left Screen 2 is ND (Navigational Display screen)
this tells you where you are on a map system.
3: Look down to the pedestal beside you, you will see 2 Calculator looking things *TOUCH NOTHING* Now on the screen of the calculator you'll see a bunch of information. Tell the radio " CDU reads then read clearly from top to bottom the page you see on the calculator) This is very important.
4: Look in the very center screen between Capt and F/O on front console, your looking for a number thats says FOB or EFOB tell them Fuel on board is this number, Now look for a letter FF if it is a 2 Eng it will say FF twice a 4 Eng FF 4 times it will say something like 7260.Tell them FF per engine is this number. Now they have all information, critical to getting you down safely. allot of aircraft have an auto land system, all you have to is follow radio instructions, the plane will do the rest.
5: Tell radio the current staff and passenger situation.
explain what exactly happened and what got you to this point.
6: Follow all instructions
Hope this helped out some Ken
Feel free to ask any questions you like
Rob L
Last edited by Airbus340; 08-29-2009 at 09:29 PM.
Thank you Palm Stalker,
I flew 747 200-400 and they are not super user friendly, pretty complex piece of aviation. The 777 is much easier to fly. My baby is the Airbus 320 330 and 340 and I would say honestly, you'd have about a 5% of getting down with the right help in a 47. In a Bus you'd have a much higher success rate prob 40% , but of course more hours and exp you have the higher the survivability, so I just hope you don't have any problems in a plane period , but if you do sir a bus would be easier to fly, providing you follow instructions perfectly.
Good luck with your flying and thank you for asking.
Rob L
Rob - I think you come on board with a lot more skills here than you give yourself credit for. Things like meteorology, prevailing winds, electronics, communication, navigation. I probably missed a bunch but you get my drift. If several of us were caught off gaurd in the wilderness, you might not knap up a perfect arrow head but we all might turn to you for advice on the weather.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Wow! Rick,
That certainly is quite a compliment, considering the company I seem to be in.The only advice I will give on weather is stay 20 miles from a thunderhead if you can while flying
Sarky, that indeed is an impressive amount of air hours for sure, you were part of the crew I'm guessing or an officer? Now in regards to your question, let me try to answer it this way, every aircraft has it's own control feels, some yokes push more, some rudders are more stubborn, some FBW sticks are smoother than others,they all tend to have their own peculiarities if you will, having never typed on a P3 Orion, I personally can not compare. But I can tell you that the difference between FBW and analog cabling system really in feel there is very little difference with regards to resistance pressure.
The reason they are very close is remember after all in an analog cable system, you are really only moving control valves not really the cables like you would for example in a WWI aircraft or tail dragger. You are still dealing with hydraulic pressures, so no real difference in feel exists.
Where the real difference lies in the FBW laws, A Floor etc but no Sarky, no actual feel difference is evident, but remember a 747 feels different than a 737 or 757 just by design, even though they are all analog systems and not digital as in FBW.
I hope I was able to answer your question.
By the way if you look at the picture I provided of my office
If anything you ask is of a security or sensitive nature, please understand, Even though you may not feel it is, I will decline to answer. but ask anyway about things all I can do is say sorry classified
Rob L
Last edited by Airbus340; 08-29-2009 at 09:37 PM.
Hummph... man was never meant to fly! That's why God created parachutes!
"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."
W. Durant
A couple questions A-340. What's being done for the pitot tubes on the 340 at air canada and how long will the standby adi last on battery power? thanks and welcome to the pack.
Hi Rebel, thank you for the welcome, anything regarding company maintenance issues really needs to be asked directly to them.But since we mothballed the 340s and I got kicked back into 320 and 330, and it's been quite a while now, I have no real idea what they are doing in that area.Only reason I still refer to the 340 so much is my affinity for them, because it was the aircraft I flew probably most hours. But truthfully the 330 is basically a 2 engine version of same thing in many details. As far as battery question the A340 batteries are rated at 3000 hrs however in the event of power loss the standby instruments would be compensated by power through the RAT (Ram Air turbine or ADG) In the event of full engine failure. It is essential the aircraft have a means of sustaining emergency power to critical instruments. But batteries on an A340 are rated at 3000hrs but unfortunately I have seen the contrary on many occasions that I'm not willing to discuss further here.
I hope this helped answer your questions somewhat Rebel. However personally I'm not quite sure how in any way that those questions would be beneficial personally, but hoped I helped abit.
Rob L
I was a flight engineer, I did the safety preflight/postflight, fueling, weight & balance, fuel log, started the engines, emergency procedures pertaing to the engines, hydralics, and airframe and lastly I was ADULT SUPERVISION for the pilots who really wanted to be fighter jocks. I was also an instructor flight engineer, check flight "engineer", QAR for the squadron, ran the Phase maintenance crew. I wore a lot of dam hats when I was flying.
Oh yeah, 12 overseas deployments and hundreds of detachments.
I know what hunts you.
Well for all those hats sir my hat only 1 is definitely off to you. Out of curiosity what is the CG/GTOW and VREF on the P3 Orion? I always enjoyed seeeing that plane flying by when it is used by DHS in US. Well it sounds like your one guy I wouldn't want to mess with.
Rob L
Flying saftey = YOU AINT GETING ME ON NO PLANE, HELLICOPTER, OR ANY OTHER FLYING THING FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER!!!!! So therefore, I am never afraid that I may be needed to land a commercial (or any other) plane.
This is what I was looking for! Thanks, Rob, that was a great post.
So when do you think airlines will be equiped with remote controlled landing capability - like UAVs - for use in emergencies?
“Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
W. Edwards Deming
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
General John Stark
A few thing that I have noticed is
1 That its not a good sign to see the mechanic and the pilots having a conversation
2 Wind shear is not a good thing
3 Blackhawks dont operate correctly when they come across a down draft
4 There are an average of about 4 to 5 in flight emergencies called in per week per
5 Whinny passengers shut up or just leave and dont return during a flight delay when you tell them that I would rather keep the aircraft intacted during takeoffs and landings
6 Its funny when you say WHAT WAS THAT?
7 Its not a good thing to start gaging when you see another passenger turning pail
8 Did I mention
Come be a passenger with me Ken, we could go visit 2D, I have never got roadrash from flying (aircraft that is and no superhero jokes either) yet.
A mouse ate a hole in my lumpy chair.
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