Taking a trip

[Sarge47]

Let me see if I understand everything you're saying here, Mike. You show up on this site, tell us your plans, ask us for our opinions, then split, forgetting all about us; is that about the size of it? I give you 40-60, and that only because you're planning on going in the summer. i don't suppose you really want to hear anything that might upset this idea you have in your head that what you're doing is "the coolest" so I won't waste my time except to say check out the link Nell gave you about "The Bare Wilderness Numptys".

[gengrecko]

i diddnt split completly forgetting about you...I remembered the post i just couldnt figure out what site it was on for a while. Im sorry if i offended anyone, such was not my intention. Your probably right, this probably is stupid, and I realised that from the beginning. That why I said were going to allow for 3 weeks...I never really expected to make it that long but if luck holds out its possible. I know its hard and everything you guys have said I already have taken into account, I dont think its going to be "the coolest" I know there will be days when Im both freezing and starving, Im not retarded.
Ive gone a couple days without food before (used to fast for my religion but lost faith in it a while back) I know what its like to not eat for 4 days straight, how many of you can say that and say that it really doesnt bother you? Im sick of people talking down on me like im some sort of child...I wasnt trying to make anyone mad and I realise your telling me you honest oppinion like i asked but theres no need to be so condesending about it.

[Rick]

Mike, there are a lot of folks on here that have spent years being in the type of situation you are describing. Some have even chosen a primitive lifestyle. Some good advice has been offered and some reasonable questions asked that you haven't taken the time to answer.

Wanting to take a knife and twine to the wild is a very telling statement about your skills (there are much better alternatives than twine). I'm not talking down to you but I can recognize the potential for a serious situation when I see one and no one here wants to see you blindly walk into the wild and not return.

Reading everything you can is a very good thing. I commend you but I'll ask again. Have you and your friend tried what you are wanting to do over several week-ends to test your skills? Have you looked at what succeeded in those outings and what failed? Have you looked at possible scenarios and how to adapt to them while you are out there (for this exercise, our wood is wet, then make it so and try to build your fire) (for this exercise our knife is broken or lost) (and so on)? Those things will happen.

Everyone of us on this forum has done something in the wild then thought, "God, that was stupid." It doesn't take much perusing the threads to see it play out over and over again. And this from folks who know what they are doing. We make mistakes. We just do.

Things will go wrong. It might be minor or it could be major. We just don't want your last thought to be, "God, this was stupid."

[Sarge47]

Okay, you say this is going to be in up-starte New York in the summer right? Then why are you worried about freezing? Did you read the thread that Nell posted? That was only one of 3 or 4 threads that were started as a result of those two guys. You say you think that what you're going to do is stupid. I say NO! Not listening to expert advice is what's stupid! You're not retarded, but perhaps stubborn, we'll see. You say you don't want people talking down to you, fine! Then talk straight here or take what you get! Those two other guys didn't like the answers they got because they wanted to be like Les Stroud or Bear Grylls. so here's the deal, you want us on your side let's see how you answer the following questions:

1.) What did you take away from the thread that Nell posted?
2.) What is your motivation to take this trip, since you think it's stupid?
3.) What medical training have either of you two had?
4.) How prepared are you to get help if that's needed?
5.) To what extent are you prepared to listen to the experienced hands on
this site, even if the advice is negative?
6.) How old is you partner and what do the two of you do for a living?

You see Mike, it's not about being "stupid" or "retarded"; it's a question of "maturity" & "being prepared". We've been down this road with two other guys who wouldn't listen, and they're lucky they made it back alive. They even had to cut their trip short. What if I came to you, told you that last week I just learned how to drive and had taken several "short road trips" to prepare me to race in Nascar tomorrow? What would you say to me? What would you think of me? Or about my chances? I'm not going to pat you on the back and say positive things about your potential trip. 1st, you haven't posted enough info, 2nd, you rile too easily. This has to be carefully thought out, and ANY potential for mishap has to be covered. So if I get a little testy just think about it like this. I would rather give you negative advice and have you angry at me than just pat you on the head, leading you to believe that it's all going to be OK & have you & your friend's death on my concience. I can live with that, can you?
Survival is not the latest "extreme sport", it's "life or death". It's not a game.

What books have you read? We were very fortunate to have Cody Lundin answer an e-mail on a question regarding his book: "98.6 Degrees: The Art Of Keeping Your A$$ Alive". Have you and your Bud read it? If not, do it now, during the winter. Also, check this thread out:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=1162

I'll be awaiting your answer if you got the guts to post back.

[gengrecko]

1.) What did you take away from the thread that Nell posted? im not sure what you mean by this question
2.) What is your motivation to take this trip, since you think it's stupid? Like I said, ive like the idea since i was a little kid...and HAVE had experience, as stated in an earlier post my friend kevin and I did this when we were 13 and with the same materials for 5 days
3.) What medical training have either of you two had? Im certified by red cross in first aid, dan is a veteran from iraq so he knows his stuff to
4.) How prepared are you to get help if that's needed? we will probably bring a radio or something that will be left off unless we need it
5.) To what extent are you prepared to listen to the experienced hands on
this site, even if the advice is negative? Ive been listening and taking it all into account, although i diddnt like the way things were being said I still took it into account
6.) How old is you partner and what do the two of you do for a living? Dans 20, hes in the marines, Im 19 and Im a cashier at stop and shop because im in college but I have experience from BSA, camping, my uncle who hunts almost all hs own food, and other such things.

The only thing that I dont understand is this...when I was 13 i lasted 5 days with my friend kevin...when we had very little skills and we still did fine albiet we werent exactly full all the time we never went a day without some sort of food and I really diddnt find it all that hard. If 2 13 year old boys with very little experience can make it five days i think that a 19 and 20 year old, one with military experience and one being one of the 2 boys that did it when he was 13 should be able to make it at least a week or 2

and the reason behind the twine, as you said there are much better cordings out there...like parachute cord or something, but we want to make it as challenging as we can without killing ourselves. When we get back we want to be able to know that were capable of providing for ourselves with minimal starting equipment. If my knife breaks Ill make a new one, Ive made them in the boyscouts.

And this is being carefully thought out...as has been stated numerous times this wont be until the summer, we have time to plan, weve been planning, and were going to continue to plan it out up until the day of our departure. its not life or death when we do it, well have our car waiting for us a few miles away, well have a radio...and the thing is i dont understand why people keep saying im completley inexperienced when ive already stated that id done it before when i was a kid.

[gengrecko]

have any of you ever gone fishing in upstate new york before? I have numerous times and let me tell u...its pretty easy...theres fish everywhere and it seems like theyre itching to be cought...one day trip alone when I was with my uncle and younger cousin my cousin cought a 27lb salmon, i cought a 23 pounder, and my uncle 19lb. Every time we went we each cought at least 3-4 fish...procuring food up there is pretty easy if you can find a nice river

[Sarge47]

5 days is NOT 3 weeks. Yes, you might do fine. I'm encouraged by your B.S.A. background save for one point. The Boy Scouts never advocates deliberately putting yourself into a hazardous position. Also what is the Boy Scout motto? BE PREPARED! I have a son who was a Marine that served in the Gulf War. None of us here are trying to talk you two out of this, rather to encourage you not to try to prove something you don't have to prove. Based on your answers here this is what I've come away with.

1.) You either didn't read the whole thread that Nell posted or you decided to ignore certain points. Either way that's foolish and immature, no matter how old you are.
2.) You didn't answer this question either. When I was a kid I wanted to be a lawyer, it never happened, so what?
3.) This was the best answer so far.
4.) Good!
5.) What, exactly, would you say the most important thing is you learned?
6.) Okay, you're not kids. I work at a major University and have gotten to know college kids quite well. Most of the ones I've seen are immature and irresponsible.

You base your assumption of success on your own thinking, how qualified are you to do so? And if you are very qualified, why are you asking us questions since you seem to already know the answers? Have you ever read "98.6..", or at least the thread I directed you too? To answer your statement about "what you don't understand..." you do realize the extent of , not only 1st hand knowledge but actual experience on this site, right? Did you ever consider that at 13 you may have just been lucky nothing ever went wrong? Going without food for four days is foolhardy out in the Wilderness. You need all the energy your body can produce. All's were really saying here is to be properly prepared. You have already admitted to wanting to use "sub-standard cordage', (twine over 550 cord) to make things harder on yourselves. That tells me that you're viewing this as some sort of a game and not taking it seriously enough. I advise, as Rick and others surely will, if they haven't already, to take this goal of yours in a series of steps in order to better prepare yourselves for a more certain chance of success. I'll doubt you will take that advice as it doesn't fit what you already have in your mind. Your very last statement: "It's not life or death when we do it..." shows me that you really don't know what you're talking about. My post following this one will show you what I mean.

[Sarge47]

Okay, how far away will your car be? What is the type of terrain that will lay between you and the car? Here's just a situation that could happen that you might not expect. Your friend has stepped down wrong and took a tumble down a steep embankment. He suffers a compound fracture of his lower right leg and the broken bone is portruding through the skin. You are at least three days hike from your car and thats with both of you fit and walking properly. Your radio has decided to follow Murphy's law and doesn't work. No signal or something. Even worse, it seems that where you were fishing some bear activity in the area seems to indicate that at least one female Black bear with two cubs in also fishing there and may even have the blood scent of your partner, what do you do? Your twine doesn't seem to want to hold and you've somehow lost your pack in all the excitement. Sound out in left field? Worse things than this has happened to people more experienced than you and with more equipment. Here's an important point. You fill you stomaches with a big meal before you go. Getting out of your car and hiking to your camping point expends a lot of energy. You need at least a half gallon of water per person per day. For 3 weeks thats 21 gallons of water. It has to be purified to avoid intestinal parasites. You also have to keep your energy level up while you gather food, be it fish, game, or plants. That means you should have at least enough food for the both of you for 2 days to keep up the energy to provide for yourselves for the duration. You also have to stay dry. Go back to that thread Nell directed you to and re-read it. Those guys had to quit after only 13 days, and they were more experienced than you two. MURPHY'S LAW gentlemen; allow for it! Be Prepared. That's all I've got for you. Hopefully you'll pick up a copy of "98.6...", read the post I directed you to as well as Rick's review of it. I think you're just trying to prove something for yourself and I'm not going to condone it. i DO hope you come out on the other side alive & well, I hope you prove me wrong as the other side of the coin is to gruesome to think about.

[trax]

Didn't you start by asking for advice? How's this for advice...err on the side of caution.

How's this for "old adages" ....I may not be able to teach you to respect your Elders, but I can teach you to fear your Superiors? Nah...scratch that one, I don't want to be condescending or anything.

Yeah, I have done four day fasts, no food or water and you know what? You might think it doesn't bother you, but your body does not function properly. You're working with sharp blades and fire at a point of near exhaustion, bad idea. If you're gonna get your testosterone up in a knot and tell me that it didn't bother you, I'm gonna say bulls**t, so save yourself the typing. I haven't seen anyone particularly trying to put you down, so .....the bottom line is you're gonna do whatever you're gonna do. Good luck.

[Sarge47]

These guys aren't really looking for advice, just a pat on the head for "daring" to put their lives on the line to show how "tuff" they are. They ignore everything that disputes what they're bound & determined to do no matter what. I've had it with people like this. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. This is a "Survival" site, not "JACKASS!" As far as I'm concerned they just moved themselves over to the "Numpty" class. Hmmm, lets call them "The Upstate NY Numptys"a. TUNYN for short.

[trax]

Pat on the head huh? Well ok, but if they roll over I ain't scratchin' there tummies, don't want my dog getting jealous.

[Rick]

Yikes! Snarlin' and growlin'. You two are scaring me off. You're both right. I'm not sure what their motivation is about being on the forum. Trax is right. No matter what we say, in the end, they're going to do whatever they want to do. In retrospect, I think that was a given from the get go.

Mike - I wish you and your buddy the best. I hope things go swell and you have a great time. Then you can come back and tell all of us what a bunch of old fools we are. If we see on the news you didn't make it, well, I'll hoist a cold one to your memory (It won't actually be to your memory. I'll be hoisting a cold one anyway. I just thought it would sound a bit nicer). I tried, so my conscience is clear.

In any case, I can only offer you a well known French saying often used by less skilled people in the wilderness. "l'ours a mangé mon âne!" Which, of course means, "The bear ate my a**! Good luck.

[Nativedude]

1.)". . .And this is being carefully thought out...as has been stated numerous times this wont be until the summer, we have time to plan, weve been planning, and were going to continue to plan it out up until the day of our departure. its not life or death when we do it, well have our car waiting for us a few miles away, well have a radio...and the thing is i dont understand why people keep saying im completley inexperienced when ive already stated that id done it before when i was a kid."

Gengrecko,

I can't begin to tell you how many times I have come across people, like you, in the woods that thought they could do, what you are proposing to do, and they have been in SERIOUS trouble.

So you did this a few years ago, what does that mean? I, and most of the other people on this forum, have been doing this for many, many years. Personally, I have been doing it for 35 years, and I am still learning new things every day. Going out with the stark minimum, and being as green as you are, and you are green, is taking a serious risk. . .and for what? What are you trying to prove, and whom are you trying to prove it to? Summer or not things can go wrong, just as they can in winter. . .don't fool yourself!!

If you want to go out and test your skills, I'm all for that, but take the necessary provisions to make sure that you will make it back alive, for you, your friend, and both of your family's sakes, as well as, all of us here on the forum.

What you are proposing to do is foolhardy, to say the least, and extremely dangerous to boot!! Many, with more experience and skills than you (and your friend) have perished, having had more with them than just a knife and twine.

[gengrecko]

ok im sorry but if it was that ****ing hard the human race would be extinct...simple as that

noone had ****in 550 cord or radios or any of that **** thousands of years ago...and im not trying to prove **** to anyone but myself

I was taking your remarks into account, my friend and i had decided were going to bring more food, some medical supplies, and stronger cording...just like u guys suggested

if you want people to listen to your advice dont be a ****ing dick when you give it...you might know about the wilderness but you ****ing redneck scum dont know **** about anything else...simple psycology...if you want someone to listen to you dont be an asshole

[toasta]

i dont think they are trying to be dicks but watch for thier saftey as well as yours and others, I also think that there may be some over reacting on both sides. Its up to you on what you take. We cant stop you. It's your choice. I think every one is more concerned than trying to shoot you down or be d*cks
Please try and take what I just said into account because I would really hate to find you dead in the paper along with probly everyone here.

[trax]

Throughout history and pre-history for that matter, people have been exactly as tough as their environments required of them. Be that as it may, think of how much the average life span has increased even in the last 100 years. The human race never went extinct because each generation raised their offspring to deal with the environment they lived in and tried to improve upon the environment for future generations. If you think you're as tough as those generations thousands or hundreds of years ago, by all means head off and test yourself accordingly. The reality is, none of us are prepared for that because we've been pampered too much. That's why people with the experience here offer what we do in terms of advice.

The other reality is, if people in here hurt your little feelings with the way they talk to you, in my books it speaks to a lack of character. Suck it up, nature's going to be a lot tougher on you than we were.

I'm glad you and your partner have decided to take some of our advice and I hope your journey goes very well for you. Common sense and a calm demeanour are the two greatest survival tools you can take with you. It's up to you to develop those, none of us can teach it to you and you can't buy it down at the mil-surp store. Good luck, stay in touch between now and your departure and let us know how your planning progresses and by all means how the trip works out. Pouting and swearing don't work well for me, it's too hard to translate all those asterisks in your message.

[carcajou garou]

gengrecko:

you are absolutely right in saying:

"but if it was that ****ing hard the human race would be extinct...simple as that"

some did die....in the 1,000's....s**t happens

the difference between us today and them is that they were born to it from the get go, never had any failsafe to come to their aid, never was part of their expectations that help would, could, should come...
you mention a radio.. who would be listening? would they be listening?? can you garantee contact if not then you are on your own, a real lonely prospect if you are not up to it.
Some people are really trying to help you realize this, they see people well intentioned, motivated as you are, say the same litany then disappear or as the "bare wilderness duo" come drastically short after argueing disparagingly on several forums that they were all that ready and we were just holding them back.
To many here have come accross peoples in the bush on their last legs just waiting to be a statistic, you screw up in the bush, humanity will survive, you may not... have you come face to face with your own mortality?? Many here have.
take some time and practicle training, carry a balanced kit, expand that training and you will get there yourself you'll see.. by then you will appreciate the tidbits given here.
look up my signature maybe it will make sense, be well

[gengrecko]

ok listen, im sorry about lashing out like that...i over reacted. but another thing i noticed is NONE of you gave me any real advice on what to do differently AT ALL. All that any of you did is point out flaws in my plan, which is fine but if your going to point out flaws maybe try and offer a solution to that flaw. Thats what I was asking for when i came here...advice...the only advice ive gotten is to read 98.6 degrees, which i havent read but dan is currently reading it because I asked him to, as per your request, because im to wrapped up in my finals right now to do so.

I HAVE been taking your advice, though none of you think i have been i have...its just that you havent given me much advice to take...maybe tell me a few more supplies i can consider taking along with me...not just total criticism thats not going to help anything...all thats going to do is make the person more determined to do it their own way...beleive me i know...psycology is my area of expertise...

anyway...yeah the whole 3 day hike to the car thing seems unlikley because of the simple fact that we are going to plan exactly where to go based on where there will be an adequate sourse of food and water and park as close to that spot as possible.

again sorry for that outburst it was uncalled for...but so was that other thread "taking a trip 2"

oh and yes i have come face to face with my own mortality...i was considered medically dead on 2 occasions but thank god they were able to save me...on one of those occasions i was completly paralyzed from the neck down after a car accident and it was thought that i would be forever...again thank god that wasnt the case...I dont fear death, i figure im gunna die when im gunna die and i cant change that no sence worrying about something i can do nothing about.

[carcajou garou]

Take short duration controlled trips, with supplies. As you get better and more experienced expand those trips into longer trips with less. Aquire a level of competence that realisticly you are comfortable with. as far as supplies and kit many here do with much less than the norm as they have a greater experince factor working for them. They didn't get that experience over night on a single trip in a single temperature climate.


An old saying: act in haste repent at leisure (sometimes)

[nell67]

Try reading through this post for some very good ideas as to what you need to carry,not all of it for sure but there is a lot of gear in this thread that you should consider,but you need to know how to use any of it before it will do you any good.
There are numerous threads on here about different types of gear,read through them.
Good Luck.





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