Fire by Friction....One More Time

[crashdive123]

Oneraindog - I don't think anybody is saying they went to the lumber yard. Look at what Erunk posted. He found a good fire board on a beach in Miami and now carries it with him. I have seen that many that want to "go primative" bring their primative fire kit with them (some even buy them). I'm with Rick on this one. If I'm going to carry a fire kit into the wilds it's probably not going to be a bow drill. Like everybody said, with practice I'm sure it gets easier - just not on my to do list right now. For some of the primative techies it may be.

[crashdive123]

thanks crash, i still have some of that nice thick cane that you gave me. thats what i have been useing it for (to light fires) and it strips down to fine wires too that are very strong.great stuff .

If you want more let me know. I'll bring some to the next get together we have.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

dibs... cant wait

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i found a stand of cane a while back but the walls of it were very thin less than half of what crash posted above in his demo. not at all good for fire i had to triple up then notch it (and had difficulties with ample heat)

[oneraindog]

Oneraindog - I don't think anybody is saying they went to the lumber yard. Look at what Erunk posted. He found a good fire board on a beach in Miami and now carries it with him. I have seen that many that want to "go primative" bring their primative fire kit with them (some even buy them). I'm with Rick on this one. If I'm going to carry a fire kit into the wilds it's probably not going to be a bow drill. Like everybody said, with practice I'm sure it gets easier - just not on my to do list right now. For some of the primative techies it may be.

@ crash. my understanding was that, besides the who and what, rick was frustrated enough by the process he was beginning to believe it couldnt be done. i understand he may be dramatizing but i was just hoping to bolster him a little by showing him examples of people who have and have also greatly detailed their methods down to the materials and where they got them. ray mears with nothing but a piece of flint for ikes sake

[preachtheWORD]

Hey guys - my Dad and I have made friction fires many times.

Under good conditions, a Bow Drill can produce an ember in less than 30 seconds. Sometimes it is harder, especially if any part of your equipment or material is the tiniest bit damp. I'm not talking about being wet or even visibly damp - dampness in the atmosphere is enough.

Here is a video of my Dad making fire with a bow drill in the woods.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=59869096

It took much longer than usual to get fire on this particular day.

This is a clip of a much longer "adventure" film that I made.

The drill is yucca stalk, and the board is a doughdy (slightly decayed but dry) poplar plank.

[crashdive123]

Nice video PTW. I think it also demonstrates to an extent Rick's point. Obviously some of the materials used in this demonstration were prepared in advance and brought to the scene of the demonstration. Your dad clearly has the skills to create fire with friction, but how long would it take to gather the proper materials to do it, and for me - if I'm going to carry fire starting materials with me, they probably will not consist of a bow drill set up. I can see where some would want to though.

[crashdive123]

Another point - Last night I went into my back yard and grabbed a piece of bamboo. From start fo finish, I had fire in about fifteen minutes. However, when we talk about friction fires I usually state that I am not very good at it. Now, if I can find a bamboo stand in the woods - no problems. The thing is, where I hike it is not one of the prevalant materials. I do not currently have the experience that I need that would reliably produce fire in a woodland setting - maybe someday.

[Rick]

That's exactly where I am, Endurance. That's why I carry VS cotton balls and my flint steel as well. And a lighter and matches.

In my way of thinking (as demented as it might be) I've taken a tumble in the river and have lost every single thing on my person. When I came out of the water my pockets were inside out and everything attached to my belt was ripped off. I have nothing left but my clothes. I would be doomed to build a fire to get warm. And yet, these guys just pick up crap wood and in a few minutes have a raging inferno. This is one grasshopper that is going to have to study the master a lot more, I guess. Then again, I haven't heard anyone on here say they can do it (other than the old bamboo trick. But we know what a parlor game that is).

Thanks for the vids. I guess I'm back to the drawing board. I just hate it when I can't even master something so basic.

[preachtheWORD]

I saw this guy at First Landing State Park near Virginia Beach, VA.

His confidence ran perhaps a little to the side of cockiness, but he got a Hand Drill fire going faster than I have ever seen!

Wish I could remember his name. Although he looked the part, I am pretty sure he was not Native American. At least, he had blue eyes, so he is not likely to be fully Native American.

Hand Drill Video
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=59883097

The volume is weak, but if you crank up your pc's volume you can hear it.

I think the drill was Dogbane (a weed), and the fireboard was some kind of Cedar.

The big key to this friction fire method is the "floating" technique that warms the fireboard and drives out any atmospheric moisture. It is much harder than it looks, but it is doable.

[rebel]

While at home and to experiment with different woods to find the best combination in your area try using an electric or cordless drill. It saves your arm and speeds up the process.

[preachtheWORD]

While at home and to experiment with different woods to find the best combination in your area try using an electric or cordless drill. It saves your arm and speeds up the process.

I had never thought of using an electric drill! A great idea for testing materials! Of course, the size of the chuck would limit the size of the drill material.

[oneraindog]

...Obviously some of the materials used in this demonstration were prepared in advance and brought to the scene of the demonstration. ...but how long would it take to gather the proper materials to do it, ...

did you watch the vids i posted crash?

[Rick]

That's a darn good idea, Rebel. I never thought of that. Thanks. That should help a bit.

[crashdive123]

did you watch the vids i posted crash?

Yes I did. I was referring to the one that PTW posted with his dad doing the demonstration.

[preachtheWORD]

So far as materials go, both the drill and the fireboard need to be made of relatively soft materials. Hard wood (oak, cherry, etc) will make a pile of smoke, but no fire.

It seems that the drill needs to be slightly softer than the fireboard. The idea is to fill up the notch in the fireboard with the "dust" of the slowly disentigrating drill, which will spontaneously combust from the heat of the friction.

Therefore, you need a material that produces dust as it drills. Of all the materials we have tried, dry yucca stalk is by far the best. But, if you are going out in the wilderness and trying to make a friction fire, you are not likely to find a nice, convenient dry yucca stalk lying around, unless you live in the Southwest.

The Fireboard is not quite as important, but it should still be selected carefully. A slightly doughdy, but extremely dry piece of wood is best. By "doughdy" I mean a piece of wood that has been repeated rained on and dried out, and has just barely begun the process of decomposition. I do not mean rotten wood, or anything brittle or wormy. There is a lot of yellow poplar around my area, and that works well.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

thanks for the info preacher. yellow poplar is one of me sucess woods for fire also

[oneraindog]

Yes I did. I was referring to the one that PTW posted with his dad doing the demonstration.

i take back everything bad i ever said about you.

[crashdive123]

Don't take it ALL back. Some of it's probably true.

[snakeman]

I have been trying for months at the bowdrill, and I can get smoke within seconds and keep a heavy smoke with a lot of powder but every time there is no coal. It seems like I am doing every thing right, but no coal. The best and quickest smoke and dust though came from split eastern red cedar. From what i have heard and read, the wood being very dry is key.