What if "WE" are ALL 100% WRONG in our preperations...????

[Ken]

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.

Hopeak, thanks! I am laughing my a$$ off!

[Ken]

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.

Hopeak, I'm gonna' copy this thread, ESPECIALLY YOUR LAST POST, and share it with some of my lawyer and judge friends. It's fun to watch those guys p*ss themselves.

[Sourdough]

There is a movie called: "My dinner with Andre", and a large part of the movie deals with this subject. Andre Gregory, builds this logic case for how an electric blanket, deprives one of the experience of being alive, he talks for 15 minutes about this, and then the other person Wallace Shawn Say's, "But I like my electric blanket, it keeps me warm, I don't want to be cold and miserable, there is enough hardship in my life".

[Rick]

@ Hopeak - I get your point, too, and I don't disagree with it. It's a very valid point. Just not for me.

@ Pal - Arguing is for sissies. Gentlemen should be able to cordially disagree, respecting each other's opinion. (Then go raid the loser's root cellar when he leaves )

[Pal334]

@ Hopeak - I get your point, too, and I don't disagree with it. It's a very valid point. Just not for me.

@ Pal - Arguing is for sissies. Gentlemen should be able to cordially disagree, respecting each other's opinion. (Then go raid the loser's root cellar when he leaves )

Agreed, but forgive me if I totaly reject any idea of raiding Hopes cellar (and I am not inferring winning or losing). I have decided from reading his posts, he would most certainly take such an incursion very personally and would not react in a very pleasant manner.

[Rick]

Oh, sure. Leave us hanging. Now how are we supposed to be fulfilled? And whose throne are we striving for?

[DOGMAN]

That was very good reading Remy, its why Siddhartha left the aesthetics. I fully understand what your saying.

But, although sef-denial may not lead to self-realization or enlightenment, it can still show you parts of yourself your were unaware of. And, for me awareness, is integral to intentional living.

[DOGMAN]

I agree it is hard to be objective when you are looking at yourself.
But, thats what this thread is all about- doing things that are hard-
self-examination ain't easy work

[DOGMAN]

Parts of yourself...yes...but what parts ?

well, when I am examining myself, there is usually a flurry of activity around one certain part.

But, in regards to my previous post, and the kind of activity that Hopeak is talking about, it can make you realize your weaknesses. Normally, we are all aware of our weakness, they linger in the back of our mind and eat away at us as insecurities, and we don't want to admit to them, because we are not sure of the truth. Thats why I say TEST THE SYSTEM. Eliminate any doubt, find the weakness, then work on it. Intentional living

[DOGMAN]

That is what the occupant of the throne wants you to believe yes.
And so we think that "hard work" is a must.
It is not.

I agree, if you go back and read my initial posts in this thread, I say, "being uncomfortable is a state of mind". Hard work is a relative phrase. following the words of Robert Frost, if you align your avocation and occupation you'll never work a day in your life...

But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.

But, once again I will state self-examination is an integral part of intentional living.

[Sourdough]

Very hard to be objective, when the witness is already a part of this "self".

The "Witness" is not part of the "self", the witness is not "PART" of any thing. The witness is. The witness just is.
As in what is, is. And what is not is, is also is.

Black only exist in relativeness to not black, therefore black is black, but black is also not black. As is can not exist absent of that which is not it's self.

[DOGMAN]

Essentially, the type of activity we are talking about leads to really knowing yourself.

Pushing your own limits, mentally and physically is a voyage of self-discovery. The results of that voyage are to me ineffable, and so I can't eloquently argue this any further. Its just to hard to explain, and according to you nothing would be gained by the activity....just mental masterbation

[DOGMAN]

What i called mental masturbation is the misuse of the body to work out tensions pertaining to our mental realm.

I reread your post, and see what your saying, in regards to misuse of the body to workout mental tensions.

However, testing yourself physically to better understand yourself physically, in my eyes is a rewarding experiece, and quite often leads to identifying situations in the mental realm that one may want to further examine as well.

[Ken]

Thank you, Remy, for yet another amusing bit of psychobabble!.

Sadly, your posts above were merely a thinly masked restatement of Darwin. Nothing really original there. But still, I'm proud of you - you really were able to control yourself. You also wanted to restate Freud when you began talking about Maria’s genitals, didn’t you? Refraining from doing so must have killed you.

Well, I believe that we all understand that the human body has evolved and that we have instinctive survival skills. Correct? Like “fight or flight” – that funny reaction we have when we start pumping out adrenalin?

Of course, you once again seized upon a post, this time it was Hopeak’s, to practice your psychoanalytic “talents.” That’s why you’re here, right?

Well, I’m sorry, but I’m no psychologist. (Are you?) However, I don’t see Hopeak’s thread nor the questions he raised as “intellectual masturbation.” IMHO, you have the market cornered on that type of activity.

No, it wasn’t about Hopeak. It was a legitimate question. Allow me to rephrase it:

“Do the members here believe that it would be a good idea to test their equipment, skills, and stamina under conditions which would be more realistic than those encountered while posting on the Forum?”

There. Is THAT “intellectual masturbation”?

Of course, none of your posts would be complete without raising the question of someone’s “insecurities.” Here’s my take on the subject: Again, IMHO, I believe that there is nobody here who would have fewer emotional “insecurities” in a survival situation than Hopeak. You, however, would probably have to call your therapist before you grabbed your BOB and headed out the door.

To quote you, Remy, "I hope this was passionate enough."

[DOGMAN]

Again, I still see what your saying, back to Siddhartha. But, I am not talking about achieving "oneness" through hardship- because we are already one...that is the easy part. All we have to do is wake-up and look around to know that- its a given.

I am talking about exploring beyond the dialogue and finding the primal- not mentally knowing it is possible to be one, but feeling the connection.

Before words...there was something.
Before words there were rhythms , the inner sounds of your lungs inhailing and exhaling in a polyrhythm with your heart beat. The same rhythms that elk, wolves and all the other animals feel, the same rhythms that many of us haven't heard in a long, long time.

Physical exhertion can allow us easy access to those rhythms, physical hardships, tests of endurance and such can crack open this inner ampitheatre so we can once again here the music of the universe that was there all along.

But, these exercises can do more than that- they can make us realize that surviving isn't enough. Surviving is what we are doing as we play trite mental games in our comfortable chairs at our cozy keyboards, quoting poets, eastern-religion and other nonsensical psycho-babble. Thriving is what we are doing when we are out-there dancing to the beat.

Your right there is more to Hopeak. He is Peter Pan, the pied piper and a Wilderness Sage all rolled up into the personage of a gun-toting, sourdough curmedgeon, and basically this thread was a veiled attempt at getting people to get off their butts, off the computer and into the woods in the name of survival preparedness.

And, on that note, I am logging off. The Gallatin River and several miles of big water continuous Class IV are calling my name. Its staying light until 9:30 now, and an after work kayak session is just what Dr Hope ordered!

[Ken]

...and i acknowledge the fact that you take great interest in what i write...even though you read poorly.

Actually, my reading comprehension is quite good. It's an occupational necessity. But please understand - it's not that I read poorly, it's that you write poorly.

[Ken]

lolll...a little regression there maybe ?
Well...it's not that i write poorly, it's that your daddy was blind. And your mommy is so fat, that she is really fat.


Ok...i am going for a walk now.
Silly you later Ken.

This is exactly the type of intelligent response I'd expect from you, Remy.

[crashdive123]

OK now. Hopeak has probably not gotten all the information that he wanted yet. In an effort to prevent him from asking the question again in another thread after this one gets closed ----- let's just scale it back a notch or two. Thanks.

[Sarge47]

Here are some funny quotes from Einstein...

"A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character."
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"People love chopping wood. In this activity one immediately sees results."

Great quotes, here are some more:

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

"God is subtle but he is not malicious."

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

"God does not care about our mathematical difficulties. He integrates empirically."

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."


I find this all interesting.

[Sarge47]

lolll...a little regression there maybe ?
Well...it's not that i write poorly, it's that your daddy was blind. And your mommy is so fat, that she is really fat.


Ok...i am going for a walk now.
Silly you later Ken.

Are we going to do "Yo Mama!" cracks now? Can I play?