What if "WE" are ALL 100% WRONG in our preperations...????

[Sourdough]

There is something that haunts me about this entire "Survivalist" Mentality.

Problem: Encouraging people to buy stuff so as to be prepared is good, but not even 10% good enough.

Solutions: Don't eat anything for 3 days, nothing. Or, choose a three day weekend and throw the main Electric breaker on the house, and deal with no electric, the kids also have to deal with it, no going to Bobby's house for the weekend. Or any of the many practice drills we can come up with. Practice being uncomfortable, and maybe even miserable.

Kind of like an apprenticeship training, the Forum leaders would need to encourage it, and even practice it. I am saying we need to shift the mindset from, buy this stuff, and you will be prepared. Shift to a two step mindset, the second being to practice, to run drills.

Your not a carpenter just because you buy tools, you serve a 4 year apprenticeship, and then you have skills & tools. You don't give someone a plotter, flight plan, and weather forecast, and say now you have all the tools you need to be a Commercial Airline Pilot.

Going car camping one or twice per year is just that, a well thought out, same as everyday life just not in your home, but you have thought of every possable thing you might need so as to not be miserable. Well that ain't "Survival", that's luxury camping.

This is a leadership issue, if the leaders are not willing to shift mindset, it will not happen. We are negligent in our collective duty, if we seduce people into false security.

"What practice Drill did you run this month, this year, EVER".......????

I would like to see this thread debated passionately, and not politely swept under the carpet. Chris & Super moderator's it needs to start with you, and other forum leaders. I am requesting a true Paradigm shift.

[bulrush]

First, most of the general population would not do a practice run. They would be embarrassed by it. They would be AFRAID of what others would think of them. That leave the rest of us, here on the forum.

I think my son, age 13, might think it is fun to cook on an alcohol cooker on the front porch. But having no TV or video games, well he's done that too when he gets in trouble. The more trouble he gets in, the more books and magazines he reads. His discipline (no TV or anything with a screen) means we also spend more quality time together, going to the park, playing card games, etc.

In a nutshell, I think a practice run is a good idea. Sometimes I do have nights where I turn off all lights, no tv, and just use a candle and try to read, or play solitaire by myself. A deck of cards and a book of card games, goes a long way. Uno is also fun, as is Skipbo. Funky name, fun game.

[M-J de M.]

Good proposals, Hopeak. Will cogitate and act on them.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My recent move from my in town residence to my outta town residence was a start to an excercise in changing my families overall lifestyle. As for TV I decided we should go without TV or at least the expensive cable bill. We began by staying weekends at the new home with no electric or water. This was a learning experience. I found that I had more than enough camping equipment to easily go without. One rude awakening though was a small brushfire, Thank God for the 2 - 5 gallon pails of water I had to flush the toilet. We are now completely moved and still no cable. My 5 yr. old misses it some but it was truly junk she was watching and I am finding much more quality in the situation than before as for me and the wife we don't miss the boob tube one bit! We now spend evenings outdoors and do some things that are very much practice for the big what if. Good Post Hopeak!

[Rick]

I absolutely agree that plans need to be tested. Otherwise, it's only theory. We need to understand just how well prepared we are...or are not. I don't think anyone would disagree with you. The rub comes in as to how far you want to go to test it.

I don't think you have to set your house on fire to test your evacuation plan. However, you can certainly walk through the drill, even assume some exits are blocked in the exercise. You will never duplicate the adrenalin surge you will experience in a true fire but you will know what to do, where to meet, how to ensure everyone is out and what everyone's responsibilities are. You don't have to purchase anything, either.

I do disagree that everyone encourages people to buy stuff. It is certainly helpful to have some commercial items but you can make many of the things we discuss or simply substitute. I do think we encourage folks to buy quality if they are going to buy anything and we do have a lot of discussion on which items represent quality.

In the end, I think it's up to you and your family situation and, perhaps, location as to how far you take a test. If you want to go 3 days with no food, that's one thing but you certainly couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't ask you 4 year old child to do so. That would be endangering their health. If you want to turn the power off (and you safely know how to do so) for the week-end, then have at it. I agree that you will learn more than just walking through an exercise that spans a couple of hours.

The same is true if you want to evacuate and test your BOB. If you recall, I suggested just a few days ago that one of the members evacuate to a hotel and live out of their BOB. In that case, small children were involved so I wouldn't have suggested anything too dramatic. You could just as easily evacuate to the wilderness and test your supplies for a week-end, a week or however long you want.

In the end it has to remain a personal choice. There are just too many variables in individuals to assign a one size fits all. Children, disabilities, finances, location and I'm sure many other variables make testing the scope and depth of your plans a limited proposition for many.

I would be tickled to death if everyone had ANY written plans, any items in their BOB, and even tested them.

[M-J de M.]

Way to go, Cowboy Survival! Kids will adapt to not having tv even more quickly than adults, I reckon.

We cut the cable many moons ago, and don't miss it. I can see all the news videos I need on the internet, if I'm so inclined, and we have a collection of classic movies when we want to watch something. No commercials, no plugs for idiot shows--it's great!

[Ole WV Coot]

Lots of us got to "practice" for several days, some up to a week or more this past winter. My place is all electric and "someone" made the mistake of thinking it would be only a few hours at the most so I didn't bother with the generator. Lasted a little longer and enough ice to limit my travel from the house to the woodpile. We made it fine, didn't speak to each other much after the first day but opening the doors on the Buck insert, placing the screen in and candles, stove & stored food plus reading kept us warm. I had trouble sleeping after the dog food ran out and my attack beagle was looking at me funny, otherwise we could have gone a lot longer without any real problems except I need to add more dog food.

[Rick]

Coot - I wouldn't worry too much. But if you go through something like that again and the Beretta shows up suddenly, you might want to cut the attack beagle an equal share of the food reserves. Just sayin'.

[crashdive123]

Actually I agree with a lot of your post Hopeak. The reliance on the latest gizmo may be useful, but without practice is pretty much useless. The ability to make it through a tough spot without the latest gizmo is even better. So practice? You bet. The crew of a submarine did not get as proficient as they were by sitting around and talking about it. A typical day involved six hours of various drills and an hour or two of training. Where I disagree with your post is that this needs to start with the forum leaderes. Chris has provided the venue for all of us to do exactly what you describe. The mods just heard cats more or less and keep away the evil doers. We are participants in the forum just as you are. The fact that there is the title of moderator beneath my avatar should carry no extra weight in a discussion about issues. I know that some see it that way, but they shouldn't. I can't hold a candle to your experience as a big game hunter and bush pilot when those topics are discussed. While I have lived in colder climates and have hiked and camped in them it does not compare to your experience of remote living in Alaska. The forum will follow the direction of the members. I start threads that I feel may be of interest to others as I assume others do as well. By starting this thread you bring important points to the discussion. I don't think that the mods can "dictate" the direction of discussions (note the earlier comment about hearding cats).

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Way to go, Cowboy Survival! Kids will adapt to not having tv even more quickly than adults, I reckon.

We cut the cable many moons ago, and don't miss it. I can see all the news videos I need on the internet, if I'm so inclined, and we have a collection of classic movies when we want to watch something. No commercials, no plugs for idiot shows--it's great! Getting rid of cable tv is the best thing for control-freaks like us, who refuse to let our minds be polluted.

One of these days, the power-grids and internet may go too, but 'til then, I will learn what I can from it.

Thanks M-J,

I think she is benefitting greatly from my decision. Dad found crawfish in the irrigation ditch, she now has an adult male and female for pets in an aquarium. It looked like we saw them breeding yesterday maybe she'll have little ones soon. Point being we do alot more similar to the above instead of TV. The horses out back and crawfish tank are much more relaxing to watch than the crap on TV.

[DOGMAN]

I get myself into situations that most people would find uncomfortable at least once a week- sometimes even more. then while i'm walking upteen miles home and cussing myself, the snowmbile, four-wheeler, dog-team, etc...

i start thinking...i wish i was better prepared.

being uncomfortable is a state of mind. I am uncomfortable at the Mall, or at a party. Alone with no electricity at my house or out in the woods is far from uncomfortable to me

[Ken]

In the end, I think it's up to you and your family situation and, perhaps, location as to how far you take a test. ........I would be tickled to death if everyone had ANY written plans, any items in their BOB, and even tested them.

Hopeak, this kinda' sums it up for me. In the last couple of years, I've rarely gotten the time to take a vacation - maybe one or two weekends away each year - that's it. Our schedules - mine, the Sweeties and the kids and the extended family and the friends - just don't lend themselves to this type of a test. Rarely an hour goes by between 6:00 am and midnight without a crisis call from a client. I like to answer those calls, because those people put food on my table.

For the next several months, I'll be booked solid with my law practice and with relocating/reassembling/rebuilding all of my survival preparations at my new home. Generators, fuel storage, storage pantry, firearms room and safe, commercial two-radio radio system with a "suitcase" repeater, - the list goes on and on. Yep, everything will be tested and re-tested and tested again from time to time. I've had so much experience and practice using the things I'd need to "bug-in" (my first option given my new location - which was carefully selected based on a number of factors) that I'm satisfied everything will work reasonably well if need be. During my transition from one place to another, well there will be a few loose ends for a short while.

I've got the written plans, tons of tools, sufficient equipment (multi-redundant) that I know how to use, and long-term supplies. We have fully stocked BOBs, 2 bug-out vehicles, and communications plans for family - including a self supporting medium-range (75 mile) redundant radio system for all relatives and friends in the area, that will only fail if the sun goes haywire or we get hit with EMP. If need be, I can repair the most likely problems that may arise with my radios and stay in business for at least two years.

My sons, brother's (only one lives close by) and close friends - "the team" - can keep everything going just fine if something happens to me. All of our plans include taking care of each other if necessary.

Unfortunately, my lifestyle is such that I simply can't take the time, nor expect everyone else to take the time, out of already hectic schedules to test the entire scenario. It just isn't practical for us. However, given that being prepared is ingrained in our regular lifestyle, I have a high degree of confidence that things will work out as well as possible - considering the ever present Mr. Murphy - should the need arise.

I chuckled when I read the other posts about living without television. The only TV I believe I've watched this year was that Alaska Survival episode that aired two weeks ago. Now, you don't want me to give up the internet, do ya'?

[rat31465]

It would be impossible to test a real life scenario without going through a real life scenario.
How are you going to test mass panic buying where stores are running out of food, batteries, Lamp Oil etc...?
The Big Ice Storm of 2007 here in SW Missouri taught me a thing or two about what one can expect when natural disasters happen.
Fortunantly my wife and I faired quite well since we were better prepared than most in our neighborhood. I had three gallons of lamp oil stock piled, Kerosene, batteries, 30 gallons of drinking water and enough food to last the two of us for a month. And it was a good thing that I did. Wal-Mart and every other buisness around ran out of batteries within the first day after the storm...no lamp oil, flashlights or lamps/lanterns were on the shelfs. You couldn't find lamp mantels, kerosene lamp wicks or even candles of a decent size and don't even think about trying to fill a propane tank. The camping department looked like a small hurricane had hit it.
We went without electricity for 17 days and only in the last 4 of these did I end up borrowing a generator from a friend.
Boredom became one of our worst problems so we busied ourselfs playing cards and back gammon and watching the news and only a few select programs on our emergency television powered by two deep cycle gel batteries that I have.
We heated the house using the gas cook stove and I circulated the heat from the one room with two small 12V fans from an old computer that I had kept for parts.
Our biggest challenge was keeping the food in the ice chest from spoiling. We packed everything carefully in the chest and covered it with layers of ice and newspaper.
Ice was another commodity that became hard to obtain.(Kind of ironic that we couldn't get ice in the middle of an ice storm huh?)
We kept shallow pans and bowls full of water out on the back deck constantly so they would freeze through the night to make ice by morning.
If nothing else...this experience was an eye opener to make sure and stock those items which invaribly will fly off the shelf first.

[DOGMAN]

Our biggest challenge was keeping the food in the ice chest from spoiling. We packed everything carefully in the chest and covered it with layers of ice and newspaper.
Ice was another commodity that became hard to obtain.(Kind of ironic that we couldn't get ice in the middle of an ice storm huh?)
We kept shallow pans and bowls full of water out on the back deck constantly so they would freeze through the night to make ice by morning.

just curious....if it was that cold, why did you need ice? Why not just put the ice chest outside and let nature keep the stuff cold. I have two big chest freezers that I leave outside in the winter, filled with meat and there not even plugged in.

[rat31465]

just curious....if it was that cold, why did you need ice? Why not just put the ice chest outside and let nature keep the stuff cold. I have two big chest freezers that I leave outside in the winter, filled with meat and there not even plugged in.

We tried but it didn't keep things frozen soild for long term.
We did have one ice chest outside that we kept milk, eggs and lunch meat in and other things that needed to be kept cold but not frozen.

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

[Ken]

But not the kinda' stray dog you think it was.....

[Rick]

(making note. Stop by Jason's late at night for snack).

EDIT: Ooops. erasing Rat's address from book.

[Ken]

(making note. Stop by Jason's late at night for snack).

See? What did I just say?

[Sourdough]

Actually I agree with a lot of your post Hopeak. The reliance on the latest gizmo may be useful, but without practice is pretty much useless. The ability to make it through a tough spot without the latest gizmo is even better. So practice? You bet. The crew of a submarine did not get as proficient as they were by sitting around and talking about it. A typical day involved six hours of various drills and an hour or two of training. Where I disagree with your post is that this needs to start with the forum leaderes. Chris has provided the venue for all of us to do exactly what you describe. The mods just heard cats more or less and keep away the evil doers. We are participants in the forum just as you are. The fact that there is the title of moderator beneath my avatar should carry no extra weight in a discussion about issues. I know that some see it that way, but they shouldn't. I can't hold a candle to your experience as a big game hunter and bush pilot when those topics are discussed. While I have lived in colder climates and have hiked and camped in them it does not compare to your experience of remote living in Alaska. The forum will follow the direction of the members. I start threads that I feel may be of interest to others as I assume others do as well. By starting this thread you bring important points to the discussion. I don't think that the mods can "dictate" the direction of discussions (note the earlier comment about hearding cats).

OK, that's fair. We need to lead by example. We need to "DO IT" and talk about it, the good, the bad, and the ugly, of it. No one wants to be Cold, Wet, Miserable, Hungry, Fatigued, Sore, Inconvenience. We want the safe, easy, Dry, secure, plentiful, good life.

We do not all have to be Wareagles, and practice 30 days survival drills in the wilderness with just the clothes on our back. But, we need to do more, or at least support and encourage others to do more. The "DOING'NESS" needs to be an equal part of the conversation.

Not just for the survival community. But all Americans, all humans everywhere.

[Sourdough]

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.