winter survival in the noth woods

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ62FoAUQE4

this is a survival discussion in the woods, of massacheucetts

[Ken]

Gene, let me get this straight. You weren't going to build a fire for heat because the temperatures were only going to go down to the 20's?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Gene, let me get this straight. You weren't going to build a fire for heat because the temperatures were only going to go down to the 20's?

yep thats right. my clothes did that job for me that nite, i use hot rocks also< a small fire for light is all you need to empower your hot rocks.

i try to depend on my clothes to keep me warm, and i consider that a fire may not be possible to build.

when i can plan for my needs, i bring lard to burn as fuel for my stoves and heaters.

[Ken]

Okay, Gene.

20 Degrees, huh? I'd survive, all right. BUT, I'd be wearing about 12 layers of clothing. In fact, I'd be so constricted that I'd barely be able to move as I added another 10 logs to my fire. If it was me, my fire would be observed by satellites in outer space.

When I think of wilderness survival, my first thought is always of COLD WEATHER SURVIVAL. Warm weather survival is almost a walk in the park. But no fire in 20 degree weather?

Well, I've read your posts, and without any reservations I believe 100% of what you have said. My hat's off to you. Your skills and endurance have clearly evolved to a level far beyond mine.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I dont wear cotton in winter.

this is how i dress,

i wear size 12 snow boots (my foot size is 10) so there is an air space inside, my socks fit loosly and are kept dry
1 wear 4 layers,
thermal under clothes(wool)
sweat shirt and pants
insulated cover alls (full suit)
and a feather down coat and snow moblie chaps

thats not too much clothes

the key is to have air space inbetween the layers

and the hot rocks do a great job with little effort to maintain. choices of insulates is important, cotton "thermal" clothes only insulate when completely dry even body sweat can make cotton dissapate heat (making you cold).

[Ken]

Gene, I do dress in proper layers. I'm pretty adept at survival in New England environments, and I've spent many a winter night outdoors in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. But, again, you take it to a higher level.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

But, again, you take it to a higher level.

i also make use of sedges and other natural insulates for my shelters, like a pile of hay get it thick enough (1 or 2inches) and its water proof and warm as fiberglass,

there is a lot of ways to warm without fire!

[red lake]

Gene,

That is too much clothes for any activity in temperature that warm. That is too much for temperatures below 0 with any sort of activity.

Walking in the snow, which I must assume there is, is very strenuous and generate alot of body heat.

You description of clothing would be good for being stationary but would be a ***** to cart around with you until it is time to remain stationary.

The big thing about the north of mass. (not north by my standards) is the dampness. Chills you right to the bone

[Ken]

i also make use of sedges and other natural insulates for my shelters, like a pile of hay get it thick enough (9inches) and its water proof and warm as fiberglass,

there is a lot of was to warm without fire!

I've also used natural materials as insulation several times. Just understand that you're talking to a guy who was born to live in the Caribbean. My ancestors forgot to take a left when their ship approached North America.

From September to April, I sleep with my electric blanket on high.

[doren]

From September to April, I sleep with my electric blanket on high.

My girlfriend is like that. I don't think about turning the heat on until the house temp is 50 degrees. But on the other hand It's 69 degrees right now where I live. To me it's about as warm as I like.

I see where he's coming from not using a fire in 20 degree weather. During my last trip in the winter my fire was too far away to help keep my shelter warm. (terrain could not support it) One night it got down to 10 below. Sure I was cold, but I have been through worse. I had more trouble adjusting to the 80 degree house after being in the woods for three nights.

However I'm trying to make moments like that easier for me by making small fire tins to keep in shelter for multiple nights.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

we climatize to the weather to a certain point. red lake pointed out that the clothing would be"over dressing" and the point is that we wear whats comfortable so that we dont sweat when sleeping in cold temperatures the additional clothing is enough to reudce the need for a "bon fire" so over dressing in loose layers and useing a couple hot rocks heated in a small fire does the same thing as a big fire and you ont have to use up all of your energy gathering and breaking up wood.

i didnt say never build a big heating fire, just for sleeping on the go the effort you save helps you to travel on the next day,

[wareagle69]

well i don't know about you guys, fire in 20 degrees? thats a heat wave, if you recall my thread called "my night out in -40" that was no fire no shelter, just what i was wearing, now thats stimulating, feet was cold a ...... but was a great time expeimenting.
I am of the school of thought that if you learn what to wear and get used to just being dressed proper then every thing else is just comfort, as eugene says what if you can't get the fire started for whatever reason(yes i know your all from the great fire clan) but still why not train for 12 rounds and only have to fight 3 at least then you know what you are made of.

[crashdive123]

Well that's all true and I don't disagree but as I recall, you only made it a couple of hours - fire might have been helpful.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

the smallest possible fire for the least effort. the "bamboo mason" jar and burl wood seed grinder is also an exelent way to streatch your resources,
by roasting and grinding some of those woody winter foods that are otherwise inedible

[welderguy]

My hats of to anyone braving 20 degrees without a fire, as for me I would have to have a fire.

[Ken]

Frigid Cold without Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. = HYPOTHERMIA. Then again, I guess "Frigid Cold" is a relative term.

[crashdive123]

I've camped in -25*F with no fire. I was in a small four season tent with a candle lantern and stayed plenty warm.

[trax]

There's a lot of bad advice being thrown out here.Why not continue to train making fire? Isn't that akin to training for 12 rounds even if you only have to go 3? It's a matter of what training you do.

Everyone knows multiple layers of clothes are best, everyone should know what materials are best to wear, if you don't use the search button. If you're too warm, you can take some off and keep them nearby for if you start to get cold again. Duuhhh, you can't put on extra clothes that you didn't bring.

If you can make a fire, make one. End of story. There isn't going to be some little alarm clock that goes off in your head that makes you say "oh gee, hypothermia's starting now, I better warm up". What will happen is you'll start to get forgetful and clumsy and tired. Not good conditions for splitting kindling, unless you've always thought you didn't need that extra thumb anyway.

1. Wear layers
2. Make shelter
3. Make fire

In that order, because if you really can't make fire--great fire clan membership notwithstanding--- you still have the clothes and shelter to protect you.

[crashdive123]

What will happen is you'll start to get forgetful and clumsy and tired

Man, I'd be building a lot of fires. That's a normal state of affairs for me.

[Rick]

What will happen is you'll start to get forgetful and clumsy and tired.

And all this time I thought it was old age. Maybe I had better go find a coat.