Fixed Blades Vs. Folders.

[Sarge47]

A question was raised regarding Swiss Army Knives & Leatherman as a knife choice for "Newbies." Without going "off-topic" anymore than I already had I failed to answer the question as I felt it was important enough to deserve it's own thread. 1st, just let me say that I'm a big fan of Victorinox. I own 5 various models of their Swiss Army Knives, 1 pair of their sunglasses with side shields, 1 of their compasses, & their Multi-Tool as opposed to Leatherman. Not that I find anything wrong with Leatherman, both my wife & youngest son have one, so if I felt the need for that brand I'd simply borrow theirs; I just really like Victorinox.

However, I'd never use or recommend a folder of any kind as a PRIMARY knife for the following reason:

A fixed blade with a full tang is a lot strudier. A folder has a weak spot at the pivot point. Many Survival experts state this fact in their books.
Mors Kochanski; "Bushcraft", pgs. 109-110 recommends any one of 3 knives: Mora (Sweden), Soligan (Germany), or Sheffield (England). The chapter on "Knifecraft" (Pgs 109-134) is extremely interesting. In his booklet: "Tools of Survival & Survival Training"; pg. 14: he writes: "A STURDY, SHARP KNIFE: A survival knife should be difficult to break, yet delicate enough to carve a wooden netting needle and be sharpened in such a way that one can produce wooden shavings with it. it should stand up to the use of a baton. A folding knife fails due to the weak blade pivot."

Also, Cody Lundin, in his book: "98.6 Degrees The Art Of Keeping Your A*s Alive" recommends the Mora on pgs. 172-178. He also has this to say about folders (PG. 175) "Fixed, full-tang blade: this eliminates folding knives,which are held together by the mercy of a small metal pin that anchors the blade to the handle. This blade is the Achilles heel of all folders, and I've watched more than one blow up in the field when subjected to heavy use."

this from John D. McCann: "Build the Perfect Survival Kit.": (pg. 77) For all but the smallest kits, my preference is a fixed blade knife.

Dispite anybody's opinions to the contrary here, I prefer to listen to the experts.

[sgtdraino]

You'll get no argument from me.

However, I do have a question: The SOG Revolver. As far as sturdiness goes, closer to a fixed blade? Or closer to a folder?

[crashdive123]

You'll get no argument from me.

However, I do have a question: The SOG Revolver. As far as sturdiness goes, closer to a fixed blade? Or closer to a folder?

While the strength and sturdiness of folders will vary (I don't own the SOG Revolver) it is still a folder, albeit from all reviews that I have read one of very good quality and strength.

By the way, the SOG Seal Revolver was invented by one of our members - Robbie Roberson.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

I believe a folder has its usefulness and own several but as far as an all around survival knife ,, stick to a good quality fixed blade.

[MatthewnOK]

Not only is it weaker, but a folding knife can be dangerous when it breaks. I had an old schrade liner lock with a 2 inch blade. Well, one day I put to much pressure on it, and the little piece of metal that holds the blade open flew out with enough force to cut my hand. Not to say I usually carry a folder. I always have a non-locking folder, locking folder everyday, and my seal pup elite when I go hiking. If I'm going to be there a while I'll throw in my Estwing hatchet for firewood and defense (It makes heckah shillelagh)

[mcfd45]

I would have no problem going into the woods with a folder. And it isn't just a knife, its a knife, can opener, saw, fish scaler, magnifying glass, USB card, 20 speed blender, ar15, whatever model you have. It is a personal preference nothing more. They occupy less space, are legal to carry in more circumstances (what good is your knife if it is back home), can be made to withstand chore work. Don't get me wrong I have a few fixed blade myself. but when I choose one to get me to and from work and as a daily carry i choose a folding gerber tanto. If I plan on going deep into the woods I will carry my fixed blade knife. I also have in my kits a swiss army knife. Its personal preference. If you are gonna say this is the best knife you can use then you should put in a disclaimer saying this might not work in every situation.
when field and stream's David petzal found what he believed to be the 20 best knifes ever made the mora was not on it. was the swiss army knife, yes. was the leatherman, yes.

[R.Spencer]

all folders are weaker than a full tang fixed blade. Having said that my frame lock Striders are about as strong as you can get for a folder. My primary cary right noe is a Strider SnG tanto tip and a Busse Meaner street, and a good utility tool

[RobertRogers]

I believe a folder has its usefulness and own several but as far as an all around survival knife ,, stick to a good quality fixed blade.

I agree, a fixed blade is typically the way to go and is my choice too.

[chiye tanka]

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

Does deputy sheriff fall in there?

[Sarge47]

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

You talked to everyone involved; every Park Ranger? Every Swat team member? Etc.?
You trust Smokey the Bear? And you expect anybody to take you serious?
Oh, & by the way, this thread is basically about "Fixed Blades, not JUST the Mora, vs the Folder!

[Sarge47]

I would have no problem going into the woods with a folder. And it isn't just a knife, its a knife, can opener, saw, fish scaler, magnifying glass, USB card, 20 speed blender, ar15, whatever model you have. It is a personal preference nothing more. They occupy less space, are legal to carry in more circumstances (what good is your knife if it is back home), can be made to withstand chore work. Don't get me wrong I have a few fixed blade myself. but when I choose one to get me to and from work and as a daily carry i choose a folding gerber tanto. If I plan on going deep into the woods I will carry my fixed blade knife. I also have in my kits a swiss army knife. Its personal preference. If you are gonna say this is the best knife you can use then you should put in a disclaimer saying this might not work in every situation.
when field and stream's David petzal found what he believed to be the 20 best knifes ever made the mora was not on it. was the swiss army knife, yes. was the leatherman, yes.

Never heard of David P.; but hey, don't let me stop you, it's your choice, knock yourself out.

[hoosierarcher]

I have a large Cold Steel Twistmaster it's a folder that has basically a seriously beefed up Opinel style locking mechanism. I've used it with baton to split wood, hacked through approximately 2" thick mulberry saplings, all sorts of rough work. I'd say that it is a folder that is 99.99% as strong as a fixed blade when in the locked position.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i carry a small folder, its a "disposable blade" it gets the toughest grungy jobs .(if it breaks oh well> my good knife was spared the abuse,so i dont mind haveing a breakable.

[Sarge47]

Quite some time back we had a member come on here that had a custom-made folder that ran him 1500 bucks! I'm just betting that his folder at that price would hold up as well as a fixed blade. But I ain't shellin' out that much cash on any kind of a knife just to find out! I also have a Buck folder & Buck multi-tool as well. However the tip of the blade on the multi-tool snapped off under minimal use awhile back so I'll be sending it in to Buck for repair or replacement. I also have a Buck "General" that I bought from Cabela's with a 7 inch blade; fixed of course. It would take a lot to damage that one! However ya all go along with whatever you like, I made my statement with the 1st post of this thread. That's my story & I'm sticking to it!

[aflineman]

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

I have carried my Mora on many a deployment, and to may parts of the world. So, at least for Military, I would not say that "none of them" has (or carries) a Mora. (I can also name a few other troops who carry one).

[laughingbeetle]

I have my Buck knife - fixed blade. I recently picked up a SpiderCo serrated folder. The tip is broken, but since I bought the blade at a garage sale for a buck, I am not complaining. It will serve well as a pocket blade/saw. My brother took off with/borrowed my folding camp saw...so the spider will serve as a temporary replacement. I really prefer fixed blades though. If the pin breaks on a folder, major pain in the butt!!

[mcfd45]

I would be willing to bet that when you break the tip off of a knife (folder or fixed) you were using it for a task it was not intended for.

[Sarge47]

I have my Buck knife - fixed blade. I recently picked up a SpiderCo serrated folder. The tip is broken, but since I bought the blade at a garage sale for a buck, I am not complaining. It will serve well as a pocket blade/saw. My brother took off with/borrowed my folding camp saw...so the spider will serve as a temporary replacement. I really prefer fixed blades though. If the pin breaks on a folder, major pain in the butt!!

You can't go wrong for only a buck! I've noticed a trend on some of the top-name knife manufacturers; they're starting to skimp on steel towards the tip of the blade, at least that's my impression. Which Buck knife do you have?

[Chris]

I figure I have two pockets. I might as well carry both.

A multitool like a leatherman is extremely useful, but it can't do everything. A nice fixed blade knife of reasonable length can do a lot more, such as cutting down a small tree (hammer the back of the blade with a rock until the tree falls) small folders without a wide back side wouldn't work well for that. You could also fashion it into a spear, or more easily and safely clean game. A fixed blade knife has a safer, easier to hold, and all around better grip, thats a big deal. Try gripping a 20 function swiss army knife, it is not ergonomic, your hand will be more prone to slipping. But there are lots of things your 20 function swiss army knife can do that the fixed blade cannot. Of course, also, your fixed blade could have a hollowed out handle good for storing a small survival kit... or even a small swiss army knife! a knife within a knife!

Maybe a third knife took, something with a skinning hook on it.

I suppose if I only had one pocket in my pants it might be a hard decision for a survival knife (note, this would be a knife for wilderness survival, not for going on a police patrol, or rushing into a fire, or storming a hostage situation. Remy's comment about police and swat etc would seem irrelevant to me). I would probably go with a fixed blade knife with a hollow handle like this

http://www.4discountknives.com/ultim...with-p-62.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/bushm...nife-p-37.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/rambo...nife-p-55.html

But really... what I'd most likely do is simply buy a new pair of pants, one with multiple pockets. I believe they're called "cargo pants" and you can also buy "cargo vests". I would feel no need to limit myself to one tool.

[Sarge47]

I figure I have two pockets. I might as well carry both.

A multitool like a leatherman is extremely useful, but it can't do everything. A nice fixed blade knife of reasonable length can do a lot more, such as cutting down a small tree (hammer the back of the blade with a rock until the tree falls) small folders without a wide back side wouldn't work well for that. You could also fashion it into a spear, or more easily and safely clean game. A fixed blade knife has a safer, easier to hold, and all around better grip, thats a big deal. Try gripping a 20 function swiss army knife, it is not ergonomic, your hand will be more prone to slipping. But there are lots of things your 20 function swiss army knife can do that the fixed blade cannot. Of course, also, your fixed blade could have a hollowed out handle good for storing a small survival kit... or even a small swiss army knife! a knife within a knife!

Maybe a third knife took, something with a skinning hook on it.

I suppose if I only had one pocket in my pants it might be a hard decision for a survival knife (note, this would be a knife for wilderness survival, not for going on a police patrol, or rushing into a fire, or storming a hostage situation. Remy's comment about police and swat etc would seem irrelevant to me). I would probably go with a fixed blade knife with a hollow handle like this

http://www.4discountknives.com/ultim...with-p-62.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/bushm...nife-p-37.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/rambo...nife-p-55.html

But really... what I'd most likely do is simply buy a new pair of pants, one with multiple pockets. I believe they're called "cargo pants" and you can also buy "cargo vests". I would feel no need to limit myself to one tool.

I enjoyed reading this & agree with you about including both folder & multi-tool with a fixed blade; however, as I posted earlier, I would not knowingly have ONLY a folder &/or a multi-tool as my PRIMARY knife.

I also agree with your last statement about "Cargo" pants. I use military BDUs just for that reason. And, like you, I also viewed Remy's post, not just irrelevant, but downright silly when he included "Smokey The Bear(?)"
However, all that being said I do not agree with your choice of "Survival Knife" because of both the fact that they lack structural integrity &, if you lose your knife, you lose your survival kit!