Tracking Whitetail in the fresh snow.

[FVR]

I am of the same belief, if I am not going to eat it, not going to kill it.

I use to import african critter parts, hence the co. name, A Lion Ate My Sister. After about 5 years, started just not feeling right about it. Then I read about how many of these critter parts were being taken. Just did not want to do it anymore.

The prof. hunters who feel that the size of the antlers and horns are an extension of their penis', are hurting hunting more than any of the anti's can. Makes me a little sick, but then look at hunting today.

Lease land.

Plant deer enhancing food.

Attract deer to land.

Set up stand.

Opening day, pick one of many deer that come to eat.

Shoot the biggest one.

Got your trophy.

Brag on how "hard" it was.

It's not hunting, it's harvesting game that you attract, grow, and kill on your property. But hey, to each his own.

Like to see how these guys would do in the real woods, hunting land that is not planted for them. Having to do leg work to find bedding areas, food areas, travel areas, and funnels.

Oh yeh, they can't. They make a living going from guide to guide. Guides do all the work and the guy with the money gets his name in the mags.

You can see where my passions are directed.

[Stealth]

im game for hunting people... err.. the bad ones at least

[owl_girl]

No, really Chris, how do you feel about it? LOL

I agree 100% plus, like the guys who use snowmobiles to chase wolves almost to death and then shoot them when they're too exhausted to run anymore. They make me sick. I'd love to start a thread on how someone should open up a season on those guys (I bet I know a couple of guys here who'd join me) Don't have to kill them, just post a picture of the pants they crapped in when I had them in site where you'd normally hang a pair of antlers....but that's probably the wrong way to think.

It might be a wrong idea but it’s not a bad idea .

[LadyTrapper]

Like to see how these guys would do in the real woods, hunting land that is not planted for them. Having to do leg work to find bedding areas, food areas, travel areas, and funnels.

Oh yeh, they can't. They make a living going from guide to guide. Guides do all the work and the guy with the money gets his name in the mags.

Amen to that!

[Beo]

They (so called professional hunters) are pitiful wannabees in my book, as with hunting exotic animals I detest the way bears are hunted if it baiting over barrels, to throw a bunch of junk foods (jelly donuts, syrup, or whatever) into a 55gl. drum and then sit in tree stand and shoot the bear when he's sticking half way out is not hunting and turns my stomach as do the hunters of lions, tigers, elephants, rhino's, and other exotics. I don't disagree with bear hunting just baiting, even hate the hunters who run deer with dogs, not a good hunter there in my opinion.
And Trax I'd be there with ya bro, to hunt those wolf hunters, just I'd have to pull the trigger on one to make a point on the rest as to how the pack felt when they did that to the wolves.
Just a bunch'a sad sacks to me... aghhhh makes me furious just to talk about it.

[trax]

And Trax I'd be there with ya bro, to hunt those wolf hunters, just I'd have to pull the trigger on one to make a point on the rest as to how the pack felt when they did that to the wolves.

I'd be happy to just turn one or two of them loose on a frozen lake and then chase them down with snowmobiles so when their blood pressure is about to make their hearts and heads explode and they're panting for breath, they'll know just how the wolf felt, then maybe just point the rifle and "click" then snap a photo of the...you know...LOL

[FVR]

Wolves are soon to be off the endangered species list. That means that the states will have full control of the packs and a few states have already started talking of hunting seasons for wolves.

This is such a touchy subject, especially if you are a cattleman. Free ranging wolves, fenced cattle, some have talked about shooting everyone on site. They say that the reimbursement for the wolf kills does not cover the full cost of a dead cow.

Personally, can't see hunting wolves. I had a very interesting phone conversation with a gent years ago, selfbows and their construction, deer hunting, primitive skills, you get the drift. After about an hour, he invited me to hunt cow elk on his property, I believe it was Montana or Oregon, been awhile. Well, he asked me what would I do if I saw one of many wolves on his property, I told him that being a fan of wolves, I'd just enjoy the moment. He asked why I would not shoot it, I repsonded, "why shoot a wolf?"

He then became very motivated on getting me out to his land as he was of the Blackfoot Indian tribe and like many Native Americans, honored the wolf.

FVR hunting wolve. Just not gonna happen.

[Beo]

The wolves were here before the cattle and the rancher, fuc*em let them move. Far as I'm concerned the wolf should always stay on the endangered species list.

[LadyTrapper]

They (so called professional hunters) are pitiful wannabees in my book, as with hunting exotic animals I detest the way bears are hunted if it baiting over barrels, to throw a bunch of junk foods (jelly donuts, syrup, or whatever) into a 55gl. drum and then sit in tree stand and shoot the bear when he's sticking half way out is not hunting and turns my stomach i

This should be good for a go...we hunt bears over bait. We run an outfitters business that allows its clients to hunt over bait. 90% being Americans, some disabled hunters. THis is the way it has always been done. It provides the best opportunity for good shot placement on this animal. In our province, you can only legally hunt over registered bait sites as our bear season is prior to deer rifle season. You may only carry your rifle to and from these sites and no where off that direct route. This reduces poaching of the deer by some unethical hunters during the bear season. When deer season opens we may spot and stalk the bear, but that is the end of October and if they are not already in the dens, they are heading there shortly. You can not track and hunt bear here as you are confined to the registered bait site. Registered sites help the DNR keep a handle on where rifle hunters will be and they can check you at anytime. Do these restrictions put on us by the laws of the land make us unethical hunters??? I think not.
It is not as easy as you portray...Months of scouting and reading sign, moving to natural funnels, trails and water sources, months of tending sites, and hours on stand playing the wind direction,moon phases, weather patterens and temperature for the best chances of foolin the bear's instinct and nose which is the keenest of all forest dwellers. They learn to pattern "YOU"...and will sometimes turn the table and track you as they follow the smell on your boots back to your vehicle sometimes with you still in them!!!. They become territorial over any food source they have decided to lay claim to. Did I mention you are not permitted to carry a firearm in the one month of the 'baiting only' season before the huntin season? Not for the faint of heart. Others are educated on man smell and presence and will make their visits by this information often lurking in the shadows huffing until the hunter climbs out of the blind to leave at dusk. Is hunting over a cornfield unethical, is hunting under a wild apple tree wrong... does hunting a hardwood ridge where acorns lie on the ground for the animals to feed turn your stomach as well?
I have no desire to change anyone's opinion as everyone is entitled to one thankfully and I dont intend to make excuses for my legal hunt... just showing you the other side of the fence.

and .... go....

[FVR]

LadyTrapper,

You speak of one of the touchiest subjects about hunting. It can literally separate best hunting buddies with the anger and passions.

The bait issue, wow. You make excellant points when referring to baiting, both naturally and not naturally. I've always felt that natural baiting and finding critter food sources are very acceptable.

Yes, there was a time that I was one of the "anti bear baiting" crew. Not so much anymore, as further research showed it is very regulated. With bears, most would never see a bear if they were not hunting over bait. Now, would I hunt over bait? No. First off it's just not for me, second, I have no need to kill a bear. Don't like the meat, killing for the skin just doesn't do it for me, and my ego does not need a bear. Now if I had the opportunity to hunt grizzly bear, without a backup, I'm on it, (as soon as my kids turn 18). LOL.

What is the diff. between me going out of state, hiring a guide to do all my work, and putting me on a deer, or when I take a guy back up in the mountains, tell him what to bring, position him in one of "my" stands and then tell him to pay attention? Nothing really, except I'm not getting paid and if shoots it he's going to drag it out, I'll gut it for him if he wants.

I've always wanted to be a guide, but after alot of research, I realized that it's not all hunting and glory. Not only do you have to find the critters, you have to deal with so called hunters who; have money egos, come to camp not knowing how to shoot, come to camp completely unprepared both physically and mentally, and you sometimes have to deal with complete as sholes.

My hats off to you and the fact that you make a living at it is awsome.

Now hunting deer with dogs, what is wrong with that? It's tradition for one, you use dogs on rabbits, pheasants, ducks, grouse, quail, raccoons, mountain lions, so why should deer be any different?

Would I hunt deer behind dogs? No. I'll hunt rabbits behind them, ducks, and a majority of other critters also.

Except mountain lions. I put mountain lions in the same category as wolves. If they leave me alone, I leave them alone, if they attack, I will take the appropriate action.

[LadyTrapper]

Thank you for your honesty...
I was alittle nervous as I thought my reply had stopped all posts on this thread. I have had this debate many times in the past and you are correct in saying it is very passionate. We are new to the guiding business and have guided aquaintances from afar and friends of those friends. Very careful on our clients, doing much background research. Any nonsense in our camps... and you go home. We dont make much of a living at it, but it keeps us in the outdoors, the outdoors that is now supporting an abundant black bear population. You may have heard me talk of bears in my yard, these are not the bears we target. We are in the back country tracking bears unaccustomed to man. And our local bears will be safe from at least our harvesting.
However I do understand the views of those opposing...it may seem an unfair chase to those lookin from the outside in, but if we thought it was unethical we would not be doing it. Your ratio of success depends souly on the wariness of the bear and ones stealth..thats why its hunting, not shopping I guess.
We love bear meat and use the hides for many things, such as selling to fur auctions and making drum heads. Our native drum maker has always stated to me that the bears will speak again through the beating of his drums.
I respect all views and see them as traits of ones individual personality and ethics. I dont see them as wrong, only as different....and that's ok!

[FVR]

Fairchase laws are a funny thing. Many that I know, detest any kind of hunt that is held within a fenced area. But then don't specify how big of a fenced area. The whole US is fenced, if you are hunting on private land like many do, they have fences.

Then there are the hunting preserves that have fences. Oh, how wrong I've heard and the preaching never stops. But, what about the handicap hunter who wants to take an animal but honestly there is no way they will be able to make it to the animals habitat. Again, there was a time that I was against the "fenced in hunting areas," but I've grown a little wiser in my old age. What is good for me, may not be good for someone else. Okay, I won't hunt in a certain fenced in area kind of hunt, but if it's legal, then you can go for it.

Now canned hunts are another story. When I hear stories of so called hunters killing farm raised animals, and pretending they are free range critters, just makes me sick. But then I know some hunters who go to preserves and shoot food hogs. These are hogs that are basically pen raised and let out. You pay to shoot the hog, and then have it butchered. They say that this is cheaper than buying mass qty of pork. I don't know.

Some say they want fairchase, but is that steak your eating, was it fair chase. How bout that lamb chop, or that tasty turkey we'll all be eating Thursday? I can tell you one thing, that store bought turkey tastes alot better than those nasty wild ones.

[Beo]

LT listen, I don't think any less of you for the job (bear hunting) hope I didn't come off that way, in fact I think that being a guide is great as we need to regulate some of the people going into the forest as they do and the fact that you do it is not only really cool (now I know a guide and owner) but a testament to your outdoor abilities. I think what you do is great. I personally don't like hunting bears over barrels, just my thing so if I came off making you or anyone else thinking I think it should stop I didn't mean it to come out that way. My rant was kinda influenced by my rough day at work so I... oh my God here I go... I apoligize for that. I consider what you do as really great, I'm just not a bear hunter and didn't mean to upset ya and in the end its to each his own.
And FVR I'll take the wild turkey (food and drink) over store bought,
Beo,
P.S. I do think we need to talk about these topics as we need people such as Lady Trapper to enlighten us on them as she did me, yes I did learn alot from her posting.

[FVR]

Well, I guess if I drink enough Wild Turkey, then maybe I can eat Wild Turkey. Ahhh........you can have the bird, I'll keep the bottle.

[MedicineWolf]

Personally I don't believe in baiting bears either, but that doesn't make it wrong. While I won't hunt over bait doesn't mean you shouldn't hunt over bait. Sitting in a tree stand and hunting over an apple or salt lick for whitetail or mule deer is the same thing. Now I know the great white hunter Beo only stalk hunts his deer and coyote, but he does hide in the rushes, cattails, and reeds of the river when duck hunting. yeah bro, i told on ya. Hmmm, kinda like baiting when ya throw decoys out there aint it. Noe running deer with dogs is another topic and I don't like it... but that won't be talked about here.

[marberry]

Wow ur lucky thats alot of snow , still less then 1 cm here. nice buck and i dont think itl offend anyone here , i mean it is a survival forum after all. and im not opposed to people making trophies out of the heads of what they kill as long as they eat the meat.

hunting within 500 Meters of food placed specifically for game is illegal in canada and if ur caught the guys will take your vehicle , guns , and licience. game wardens are very touchy about bait hunting in canada. i say black bear hunting should only be legal with a bow , as should all predator hunting. i mean give the poor things a chance. but whitetales down (WAY DOWN) by sprague are an actual safety issue because at any given time theres about 100-200 on the roads. and down by winnipeg you can donate game meat and hides to the food bank so thoes hunt-to-kill 'ers actually do some good down there.

i went wolf hunting with bows on foot once. didnt see a thing and we gave up after about 10 hours of looking for tracks. saw upwords of 20 coyotes though. i cant stand people who drive around and stop to shoot. thats not evn hunting. if i see anyone chasing down wolves on a snowmobile i think i just might put a few rounds in the machine and let em walk for a change. (legally what i said was completially fictitious and i would never evn contemplate doing that. it was said puerly for entertainment value) i think theres evn a law that says you arnt allowed to shoot untill youv been out of ur vehicle for 20 minutes, but i might be wrong.

hunting big game with dogs is illegal in manitoba too. it is traditional but there are a lot of traditional things you really wouldnt want people doing anyway. because we did it before doesnt give us the right or excuse to do it again.

i love wild turkey far more then store bought ones and i take the down from any bird i kill to make pillows. far better then store bought ones. once im 18 ill get my guide license (alredy taken the courses) and join a guiding service so if i start blasting them now id be one helluva hypocrite lol. if people want to raise the animals then prop em up and shoot em thats there buisness and i wont judge them. but when they lure the wild animals i hunt to a clearing and shoot them from inside a blind from 20 feet i draw the line. and i had a friend in terrace BC , he lost an arm in Vietnam and he still went out grizzly hunting in the bush alone with his revolver so if he can do that im fairly sure someone whos in a chair can wheel themselves into the bust and wait for a deer. the fact that they are disabled doesnt give them the right to use unethical hunting methods. i die a little inside every time i see someone set up a blind and smear honey on a tree in the rockies and wait for the game to come. and back in terrace we had bears in our backyard all the time (evn had a grizzly once) but we left em alone till they started doing property damage. i dont think shooting a black bear thats ripping up the apple trees you spent time growing from the roof is unethical. but leaving a bucket a raw meat out in the wilderness and waiting from safety with a gun is. atleast thats my oppinnion.

[Beo]

i went wolf hunting with bows on foot once. didnt see a thing and we gave up after about 10 hours of looking for tracks. saw upwords of 20 coyotes though. i cant stand people who drive around and stop to shoot. thats not evn hunting.

That's because wolfs are better hunters than you, me and all of us, just like bigfoot they don't exsist, well i mean we know they're there cause we've seen the tracks but not the wolves (and bigfoots r fake wolves aren't). And I agree about the people driving around on and stop shooting, makes me sick and you are right its not even hunting, cept I'd shoot them and then drive off, hey Lady Trapper can you arrange a hunt where I can hunt the poachers now that would be a challenge (not really) give'em a thirty minute headstart in the rugged north of the Canadian winter.

[Sarge47]

Thank you for your honesty...
I was alittle nervous as I thought my reply had stopped all posts on this thread. I have had this debate many times in the past and you are correct in saying it is very passionate. We are new to the guiding business and have guided aquaintances from afar and friends of those friends. Very careful on our clients, doing much background research. Any nonsense in our camps... and you go home. We dont make much of a living at it, but it keeps us in the outdoors, the outdoors that is now supporting an abundant black bear population. You may have heard me talk of bears in my yard, these are not the bears we target. We are in the back country tracking bears unaccustomed to man. And our local bears will be safe from at least our harvesting.
However I do understand the views of those opposing...it may seem an unfair chase to those lookin from the outside in, but if we thought it was unethical we would not be doing it. Your ratio of success depends souly on thwariness of the bear and ones stealth..thats why its hunting, not shopping I guess.
We love bear meat and use the hides for many things, such as selling to fur auctions and making drum heads. Our native drum maker has always stated to me that the bears will speak again through the beating of his drums.
I respect all views and see them as traits of ones individual personality and ethics. I dont see them as wrong, only as different....and that's ok!

...do you bait a bear anyway? Say something nasty about it's Mama? Yo Bear! Nyay, nyay, na nyay nyay. Your mother's a cow! Your dad's name was Yogi! Hmmm, don't think it'll work. So that's it for me, I'm not hunting any bears!

[marberry]

depends on where in canada , i lived up in Cambridge bay for a whyle and thoes fatso's with there 4X4's and .50 rifles wouldnt last the 30 min up there specially not in the winter. it takes a real tracker to hunt wolves. i say there should be no shooting within 600 yards of a road so they cant just drive around without mufflers and scare the animals out.

[LadyTrapper]

Thanks for all for your honest opinions. Beo, you are a true gentlemen, but really there was no need for apologies for your views. I's a big girl, I can run with the big dogs or I'll hafta stay on the porch LMAO! I wish I could have you set up with a hunt for poachers, they are a big problem here. Someones' Belgian horse was mistaken for a DEER(imagine!) just the other night down the road and jacked right outta his fenced field. Shame a big loss to the farmer....and infuriating!!!!
Marcraft... baiting may be illegal in your province, but here in ours it is hunting over registered bear bait until the deer season opens one month later and it is legal to bait deer as well. The one in this post however was tracked over 600 yrd in the snow. We like this hunt as much. I hunted this evening over a trail leading to a wild apple orchard. I wonder if that would be considered the same? So many "ifs' LOL Didnt see hide nor hair, but I cant wait to get out there again and show hubby up (that would be sweet)