End the Misery

[mountain mama]

WonderMutt agrees Remy. He likes his bacon not too crispy and his steak medium-rare. He prefers Wendy's over Burger King and he sees no good reason why he should have to share a package of beef jerky with a human when we're out driving together. (although I have to do all the driving)

And just how gaseous does WonderMutt become after such a diet? I know the effects it has on my husband and it isn't pretty!

[trax]

And just how gaseous does WonderMutt become after such a diet? I know the effects it has on my husband and it isn't pretty!

Well if it comes to a throwdown between me and the dog, the dog backs down

[Alpine_Sapper]

Ah...kitas.
I understand the raw meat diet for your dogs then.
Got to keep them liking the taste of flesh eh ?

I was lucky to see my dog being born.
I was lucky to live in nature at the time (high desert)...and have the mother do all the raising.
She did hunt for her pups (she was pretty wild), but interestingly enough, she never brought back the full rabbit to them...instead she just brought back the head, and the pups would play with it.

As the dogs grew, we had 11 at the time...they would go and hunt on their own. Which in my opinion, is what most of our domesticated animals do not experience, and therefore are always stuck in a perpetual state of "childhood".
My dog never behaved like a puppy, always chewing stuff, barking uncontrollably etc...after she was able to fulfill certain instincts.
In fact, my dog only barks when we are sleeping, and something comes close to us.
She does not bark at the mailman.
She probably barked twice in the past 5 years.



I tried many different foods before settling with dry Eukanuba.
I don't give her treats.
About a year ago...she stopped eating her food.
We switched again but this time to wet.

So you see...i do not work for dry food companies.
Food, is just one component of a very complex amalgam of experiences the dog aligns with...or not.

There are many schools of thoughts when it comes to dogs...and i don't have all of the answers. I like to believe i know my dog pretty well...but again, she speaks more English than i do dog.
I think it depends on the nature of the dog. On its temperament, the way it was raised, the relationship you have with it, the intentions you have concerning its role in your life, its environment and so on...

All valid points. I'm not sure if I stated this or not, but essentially to back up your statements, a raw food diet is not right for EVERY dog. Some dogs thrive on kibble and some don't.

As for having to keep my Akita's liking the taste of flesh, *shrug* I don't fight my dogs, and they aren't "vicious". The breed itself is aggressive, but temperament is paramount when raising dogs like Akita's. A bad tempered dog is going to turn eventually no matter whether it gets the taste of raw flesh or not. Thankfully, most of the time Akita's are not the monsters the media makes them out to be. Just like American Staffordshire Terriers (pit bulls). A dog is a dog. yes, those breeds are powerful, but it's how the dog is raised that can make it a monster or a saint.

I respect your decision to feed kibble, wet food, raw food, or human food. It's your dog.

I am most certainly an advocate for a raw food diet as I have seen the changes in my dogs from switching them off kibble. I have also seen the science behind the switch, which is why I changed. And it's not like the guy that created this is just some average joe with an interest in dogs. The idea was created by a Veterinarian. Yeah, they sell the "BARF" diet commercially, but I'm not that wild about the cost of those products, so I get my raw food elsewhere.

This was originally presented because Ken was complaining of a gaseous dog, and kibble is a known culprit of that, as well as rawhide chews. I offered a solution that has worked for me. If you don't feel it will work for you, continue by all means. Especially if your dog is not having any health issues.

Interestingly enough...after this period of hunting, she has never been interested in killing. She chases rabbits and coyotes once in a while when we go camping...but she never goes for the kill...she just enjoys the chase.

A lot of that has to do with the breed. A lot of domestic dogs have the instinct to chase (anything, really. balls, cars, rabbits, coyotes) but not to finish it off if/when they catch it. It's because their instincts have been broken by humans trying to turn them into little fuzzy humans. But I guarantee you if your dog was alone and hungry, she would at least attempt (however successful she may be) to catch prey before resulting to gathering food. But conditioning is hard to break, so sure, if there are humans around she'll try to "gather" from them, but it's really just emulating a human bum and begging for a handout instead of having to go "work" for their food. If you can get substandard food for little to no work, or premium food for hard work, which do you think the dog or the bum is going to go for? As we've agreed on before, while a carnivorous predator it may be, canine is still an opportunistic scavenger. Doesn't mean what they are eating is good for them.

[Ken]

(although I have to do all the driving)

And THERE lies the problem. If you made him do his share of the driving, he just might become distracted long enough for you to get a piece of that jerky.

[trax]

And THERE lies the problem. If you made him do his share of the driving, he just might become distracted long enough for you to get a piece of that jerky.

He keeps trying but his legs are just too short to push the clutch all the way in, so I can't have him damaging my clutch right? Plus the no thumbs thing makes the wheel kind of difficult for him. He does a good job navigating for me though. 1 bark for north 2 for south, wag his tail up and down for west, back and forth for east. If he suddenly dives off the seat and hits the floor it's a pretty sure bet I'm headed for the ditch.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i had this white pit named sandie, she would come up to my friends wagin 'er stump and she would put her head between your legs and nip, if you moved even slightly she would growl dareing you to try it. well she never realy bit anybody but when i had my first daughter i sent sandie to mich. to live with my aunt on her farm. that dog made me nervous. she was well treated and kept, i think she was jealous of me having company over to the house.

[mountain mama]

trax, it sounds like you just haven't tried the appropriate vehicle for WonderMutt...
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[trax]

Yep, that right there, people. That's the helpful kind of suggestion I keep coming back here for. Only possible downside is sometimes WonderMutt tends to get a little more bent out of shape than I do, but I think he's going into some kind of program for that. Thanks Mountain Mama.

[mountain mama]

No problem, Trax Just let me know if you are able to get any of that jerky when WonderMutt's head is turned

[Alpine_Sapper]

I had 2 pits...they were the sweetest dogs.

Yeah farting...i just don't think that one can be avoided.
Reduced maybe...but i sure ain't giving yogurt to my dog ?!?

My dog has been on the same diet for years and years...no variations, no treats...and some weeks she does not fart...and then some weeks it's just the making of a new biological weapon.

rofl. yup yup. My dog likes yogurt leathers, though. (dont' ask...)

[Alpine_Sapper]

Those of you that feed kibble might find this interesting. Instructions for calculating the grade if your food is not in the list are towards the bottom.

> AKC Grades Dog Food
>
>
> AKC GRADES DOG FOODS:
> Alpo Prime Cuts / Score 81 C
> Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score 114 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked Less Active / Score 93 B
> Beowulf Back to Basics / Score 101 A+
> Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F
> Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice / Score 83 C
> Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score 106 A+
> Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score 107 A+
> Canidae / Score 112 A+
> Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+
> Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F
> Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B
> Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A
> Diamond Performance / Score 85 C
> Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
> Dick Va n Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score
> 106 A+
> Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+
> EaglePack Holistic / Score 102 A+
> Eukanuba Adult / Score 81 C
> Eukanuba Puppy / Score 79 C
> Flint River Senior / Score 101 A+
> Foundations / Score 106 A+
> Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B
> Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D
> Innova Dog / Score 114 A+
> Innova Evo / Score 114 A+
> Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score 122 A+
> Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+
> Member's Mark Chicken and Rice / Score 84 C
> Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score 127 A+
> Nature's Recipe / Score 100 A
> Nature's Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score 116 A+
> Nature's Variety Raw Instinct / Score 122 A+
> Nutra Nuggets Super Premium Lamb Meal and Rice / Score 81 C
> Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Pupp y / Score 101 A+
> Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B
> Nutro Max Adult / Score 93 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score 98 A
> Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Wheat Free / Score 86 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score 95 A
> Nutro Ultra Adult / Score 104 A+
> Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F
> Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score 109 A+
> Pro Nature Puppy / Score 80 C
> Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score 94 A
> Purina Ben ful / Score 17 F
> Purina Dog / Score 62 F
> Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F
> Purina One Large Breed Puppy / Score 62 F
> Royal Canin Boxer / Score 103 A+
> Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+
> Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+
> Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F
> Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F
> Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A
> Solid Gold / Score 99 A
> Summit / Score 99 A
> Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score 120 A+
> Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+
> Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A
>
> Start with a grade of 100:
> 1) For every listing of "by-product" , subtract 10 points
> 2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat,
> meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points
> 3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points
> 4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,
> subtract 5 points
> 5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the
> first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice",
> "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points
> 6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than
> 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points
> 7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points
> 8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points
> 9) I f corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points
> 10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil,
> subtract 2 points
> 11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is
> allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points
> 12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points
> 13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't
> allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points
> 14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't
> allergic to beef), subtract 1 point
> 15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point
>
> Extra Credit:
> 1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points
> 2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or
> nutritionist, add 5 points
> 3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points
> 4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points
> 5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points
> 6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add
> 3 points
> 7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add
> 2 points
> 8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points
> 9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2
> points
> 10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point
> 11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point
> 12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than
> the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one
> protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1
> point
> 13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point
> 14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are
> pesticide-free, add 1 point
>
> A = 94-100
> B= 86-93
> C = 78-85
> D= 70-77
> F= 70 or l

[Ken]

Sapper, I looked up the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium food. The website http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog...ned_Ultra.html suggests that I feed my lab 6 to 7 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY and my beagles 3 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY!

These guys will be obese in a week!

[Beo]

AKC dog foods, hmmm, personally if it doesn't earn its keep it ain't living in my house. My dogs are an alarm system and defense system (try coming in if they don't know you and you'll get the hint) but I feed them whatever I am having at the time, regular excerise is the key, I play with them, (used to) jog with them, and take them on Trekks and Hunting, and they stayed in good shape. They usually eat any animal they can catch, Tater ate a robin the other day after sneaking up on it and catching it off guard. So that's their diet. Dog food is dry, when they get it, but its Science Diet.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Sapper, I looked up the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium food. The website http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog...ned_Ultra.html suggests that I feed my lab 6 to 7 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY and my beagles 3 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY!

These guys will be obese in a week!

lol. I feel ya bro. Mine too. I've never heard of that food. That is redonkulous.

I just figured the info would be useful so you can see how the AKC is rating kibble and see how yours stacks up, and why since we were talking about it recently.

I feed the Nutro Ultra Holistic when I do give kibble. It was scored a104, and run's about $45-50 / 35lbs. Recommended large breed adult dosage about 4 -6 cups. lasts one dog ~ a month.

if it doesn't earn its keep it ain't living in my house. My dogs are an alarm system and defense system... regular excerise is the key, I play with them, (used to) jog with them, and take them on Trekks and Hunting, and they stayed in good shape. They usually eat any animal they can catch, Tater ate a robin the other day after sneaking up on it and catching it off guard. So that's their diet

---^ That's it in a nutshell. the dog can thrive on anything if it's getting exercise. That's one of the things on the raw diet. Pulling the meat off the bone and eating the bones is a type of exercise...eating exercise. Something dogs miss out on most of the time, unless they get to hunt, and then it's still rare.

[Rick]

Pulling The Meat Off The Bone And Eating The Bones Is A Type Of Exercise

Hey, Honey! Come Look. Alpine Says Eating Is An Exercise. I Told You!!!!!

[Ole WV Coot]

Personally I found corncobs as ideal dog food. They kinda turn their nose up, but after three or four days they seem to enjoy them and they are cheap.

[Ken]

Clyde is killing me from the other room at this very moment. He's been smelling up the place for the past few days.

So I thought I'd give this post a bump.

[crashdive123]

You're just jealous that Clyde can eat what he wants.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My beagle Mack has moved outside. I couldn't smell mine over his!

[welderguy]

You know whats really bad , when your dogs a bigger S. A. than you are rips a nasty one then walks away leaving you holding the bag, My ol healer used to do that to me all the time and always at the wrong moment, usually when guests were over.