carrying a firearm illegaly in a state park

**Beo** · 11-08-2007, 04:14 PM

"I want to carry a firearm for protection."

Firearm advocates have used this statement excessively as justification for carrying firearms in national park activities. The reality of daily life, however, is that crime incidents in state and national parks in the United States generally, are extremely low. Additionally, when serious and violent crimes have been recorded, most incidents are directed at park employees, namely maintenance staff and peace officers, and not park patrons.
Crimes indexed by the Park Officials Incidence Based Reporting (IBR) data reveals that the most frequently occurring crimes within State and National parks tend to be drug possession, petit or grand larcenies, and miscellaneous misdemeanors, usually in the camping areas. Rarely do these categories include violent crimes and/or assaults. The argument promulgated for self-protection by firearm proponents is not supported by available data collected thus far within the State and National Parks. All of this data is readily available to the public, and accordingly, the assertion that it is necessary to carry weapons on public property is effectively rendered moot, since data that has been collected by federal and state park law enforcement does not support a need for self-protection on state lands whatsoever.
There does exist, however, information which links together two very important observations:

The aggregate rate of injuries and accidents increases when persons other then law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms and
The aggregate rate of crime increases when persons other than law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms.
Statistics collected by park law enforcement and social organizations and scientists around the nation suggests that the higher prevalence of weapons result in higher accident and injury rates, both to the owner-operator of the firearm, and to bystanders.

Just some food for thought.
Beo,

**Beo** · 11-08-2007, 04:19 PM

One of the people who ruined the carrying of a weapon (firearm or bow) into State and National Parks was famed big game hunter Chuck Adams who was arrested for poaching his so called big game in Yellowstone National Park and other state parks around the nation.
Some big game hunter (Chuck Adams famous bow hunter).

**MCBushbaby** · 11-08-2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

If you carry into a city park, township park, state park, or federal park, I don't care if your carrying a .22 or toting a frig'n howitzer your getting taken to the staton and the gun confiscated, a fine of no less than $2500 and up to 5 years in prison (out in two for good behavior), Federal Law states it is illegal to cary a firearm, or dangerous instrument that produces a projectile. The above mentioned places can add to but not take away from the statute.
Beo,

What about a potato cannon? Ping pong ball shooter? I'm not mocking your post, it's just I have those and if it's legal I'd like to launch a few spuds in town square

**Beo** · 11-08-2007, 07:56 PM

Anything can be obtained (even a firearm or bow) in a state or federal park if you get permission, always ask first and do the necessary paperwork and if that don't work grease enough palms and you'll get what you want

A potato cannon and ping pong ball shooter are not a firearm. Also a state can have determined that during specific times or under specific conditions a person is allowed to carry (bow or gun, or spud cannon in Mitch's case) on specific dates (i.e. open hunting season or as specified by state game warden) or for specific reasons, there are always loop holes in the law.

**HOP** · 11-08-2007, 08:06 PM

It boils down to some people who can go armed legally don't want others to go armed legally and will use any excuse to make it happen and send the perpitrator to jail for a long while monsters serve minimum time for horiable crimes. where is the survivalability in this equasion? 25 or 30 years ago a guy named Claude Dallas murdered 2 game wardens by first shooting them down and then geting close and putting a couple of shots in their head and today he is a free man he was a poacher and on federal land and would have shot you or me down as well unless we protect ourselfs we can choose not to go there which may be the right choice.

**Beo** · 11-08-2007, 08:20 PM

I don't make the laws I just do my job and if called for a crime like that I have to do what my job requires, doesn't mean I gotta like it just gotta do it.
Psst... listen in 1988 while serving in the army at Ft. Campbell Ky, in the 101st Airborne, I was leaving out the back gate, gate 6 if ya know the post. There was a huge deer grazing in a field and I pulled over to look at it, monster buck no shi*'n, somehow my .30-06 got into my hands and I blasted the buck at about 150yards. Damn if the post game warden (provost marshal) didn't walk outta the woods behind me and take me in for poaching on a military reservation (I was young back then) and it cost me (actually my pops paid it) $1800 dollars and I was promoted to corporal from sergeant with a bonus of 45 days restriction to barracks and 45 days extra duty. No sheeeit true story, also lost my rifle.

**HOP** · 11-08-2007, 08:35 PM

I don't have a problem as long as they can quoate the aplicable statute i don't need people inforcing their feeling and not the law.
You couldn't get on post any more with a firearm except thru a cetian gate and only registered firearms for a specific purpose I have had my bulets coubted both ways.

**Beo** · 11-08-2007, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by HOP

You couldn't get on post any more with a firearm except thru a cetian gate and only registered firearms for a specific purpose I have had my bulets coubted both ways.

You mean now or then? Now I believe... then I was married and living in on-post housing, they didn't search a thing only looked at your post sticker (car pass on windshield, and one on plate) and waved you through.

**HOP** · 11-09-2007, 06:34 AM

I lived near Ft. Hood after I retired and drove thru it every day to work and while they didn't search every car the search some and did it well they got mazes and popup bariers at every gate . I good to Ft. Belvoir to se my son and it is the same.

**MedicineWolf** · 11-09-2007, 09:48 AM

Won't say a thing about a soldier bringing a weapon onto post as long as its checked by the unit armorer.

**HOP** · 11-10-2007, 11:29 AM

All post entrys are manned by civilian security types and while there are 2 or 3 gates you can bring a personnal firearm in it must be registered with PMO and only for the purpose to use the sportsman range or go to the rod and gun for the orginized deer hunt any thing else will get you in some troble my son was with CID and they investigated a lot of weapons thru the wrong gate stuff. I know of people carying thru the wrong gate but is is just a mater of time.
As for the subject of this post I usually don't go where a firearm is not allowed by whim or law. I would like to know if there are laws in Alaska about guns in parks.

**Nativedude** · 11-10-2007, 07:29 PM

This is the best thing said on this topic. Way to go FVR! I completely agree!!

Originally Posted by FVR

Best defense is your brain. I work in some real bad areas but I always keep my witts about me. I notice everything and always have a smile and good greating. I treat all with respect and have never felt threatened.

**flandersander** · 11-11-2007, 03:12 PM

Honestly i would carry a .45 and my brain. my brain tells me when to shoot and the shot stops the persuer.

**MedicineWolf** · 11-12-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by HOP

All post entrys are manned by civilian security types and while there are 2 or 3 gates you can bring a personnal firearm in it must be registered with PMO and only for the purpose to use the sportsman range or go to the rod and gun for the orginized deer hunt any thing else will get you in some troble my son was with CID and they investigated a lot of weapons thru the wrong gate stuff. I know of people carying thru the wrong gate but is is just a mater of time.
As for the subject of this post I usually don't go where a firearm is not allowed by whim or law. I would like to know if there are laws in Alaska about guns in parks.

Sorry dude, on Fort Campbell, Ft. Bragg, Ft Benning, Ft. Lewis, Ft. Hood, there are no civillian security personal maning the gates, the 2nd Mp company is the garrison mp unit and they man all the gates at Fort Campbell, I did six years at Ft. Campbell and travelled these other posts and return there and visit my friends at least twice a year and there is always an MP working the gate.
And Wright Patterson Air Force Base is manned by Air Force Security Police, not civillian security, I was there not two weeks ago hanging with a friend in the PJs and every gate we went out had AFSP at it. Now Marine Camps I don't know about, or Naval Yards, but Army and most Air Force I can tell you matter of factly they are manned by military personal. I can't see the corp or Navy slacking either.
P.S. Most Army Forts have designated hunting areas, Campbell has several and there big, civillians can even place there names in the pools but GIs have precedence.

**Rick** · 11-24-2007, 11:04 AM

I never carry in a state or federal park. At the least I don't want banned and at the worst I don't want a felony that will prevent me from carrying anywhere. If you have to pull a gun then you've failed at the best defense, which is avoidance. Animals know what the other is thinking and the same is true with man. It's called efferent cues or body language. They can't conceal it. It's in the eyes, the way they stand, their overall demeanor. It's that "hair standing on the back of the neck" feeling you get with some folks. That's you interpreting their efferent cues. Listen to what they DO not what they SAY. Your gut sometimes knows more than your brain. Listen to it.

I generally carry weapons on me. My walking staff, straight knife, etc and if I had to I would use them, not against a gun, of course. But I've spent a lot of time out there and while I've run into some goofy characters, I've never had anyone threaten me. Most are good folks that just try to let others be.

I pack in the wild but not in a park. Just my thoughts on the subject.

**Rifleman** · 11-26-2007, 09:55 PM

The simple solution would be to allow ccw in parks. If someone has jumped through all the hoops to get thier ccw then you can pretty much bet they are not a trouble maker.
I could see them not allowing long guns if they were afraid of people poaching.

Also, has anyone ever noticed that most shootings seem to happen in "gun free" zones. I guess the criminal just didnt see the sign, or just maybe the sign told them that there would be no resistance there.

Every state will be different on how severe they punish you on something like that. Here in Oklahoma I once got to walk through the courthouse with my ak47 under my arm. I had let one of my friends borrow it, and he proceeded to go spotlighting for deer down the dirtroads(poaching). A highway patrol happened to be going down one of the dirtroads and saw the spotlight beam. They got pulled over, and all that happened was the HP officer took the gun.
The next day I went down to the courthouse and said that I had a gun confiscated from one of my friends. The sheriff goes in the back and comes out carrying my AK, and asked if this was it. I said that it was, and he handed it back, the ammo was even taped to the side of the magazine.

When I was leaving the courthouse there were quite a few people waiting in the hallway, I got some funny looks with that under my arm. After leaving I still had a ways to walk to my truck, and had a street to cross also.

I'd rather that not have happened, but how often do you get to walk through a courthouse with a AK47?

**Ole WV Coot** · 11-28-2007, 10:19 PM

I carry legally, a Beretta 45 Cougar. Also a SOG Flash II. I have carried for 40yrs and never let anyone know I had it on me. I have never played "don't mess with me" and pulled either the pistol or a knife. I avoid any place I ain't legal. I was taken to a hospital in an ambulance and the guard at the hospital was decent enough to lock the handgun up for a week until I was released and it was handed back to me. Most people are decent, if you are also. I made my choice and am willing to take to keep my hide in one piece. If the gun is ever pulled it will go bang and I will face whatever it brings. It's my choice and I made it many years ago.

**Rick** · 01-14-2008, 08:42 PM

I thought I'd give an update on CCW in parks. I checked with the National Forest folks here in Indiana as well as the State DNR. Both said is was okay to carry concealed if you had your license on you. We do have a few Corps of Engineer lakes and they say no.

**MMonette** · 04-20-2008, 05:55 PM

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