Pot, your thoughts?

[Ken]

A few observations for whatever they're worth:

1. Yep, weed should probably be legalized. Too many resources wasted fighting this "crime." (Mass just de-criminalized possession of one ounce or less.)

2. Weed isn't exactly an alternative to alcohol. Most people who drink ain't intent on getting buzzed from it.

3. Weed or alcohol. DON'T DRIVE!

4. I know people who are just screwed up (waste most of their lives and really aren't productive) because of weed AND alcohol. Many are clients.

5. As long as you aren't hurting anyone (by driving wasted, not working or supporting your family, or simply abusing any substance to the level where it's hurting others) I don't care WHAT you do.

[Riverrat]

The one big problem I have with weed is it is a starter drug..try this see how good you feel, after while try acid, the heroin, the meth....I have seen it happen to to many people both in my work and in my family. Pot may be, as some say harmless, but the rest are not. Try to talk to a mother who has just lost a kid to an overdose, or a MVA because of drugs.....

[BicycleRider]

I would say that we scared him off, but he's probably too baked to remember to check his email.
Sheesh - and I didn't even get into my opinions on da ganja. . .

Sorry I don't sit here clicking refresh all day. You need to learn to relax a little bit.

I'm sorry I brought this topic up.

[BicycleRider]

Bike Rider: We've asked nicely for you to tell us a bit about yourself in the Introduction section. You have not. Kinda like coming into my house, helping yourself to the food and not so much as saying hello.
Farking Rude.

So: here's what I can guess from your wild-*** posts.
You are a pot head looking for someone to tell you it's OK
You think you have a life because you are in a trade school.
You have the maturity of an opinionated child that thinks you can ask for opinions, then insult those that don't agree with you.
You seek to align yourself with the 100,000 "nice people" of Thunder Bay, and we are just supposed to believe you?
You think it's OK to break laws because it "Clears your head." I'm a professional musician. I've worked with guys who smoke pot/drink/shoot up/snort. They say it clears their head and they think they sound great - and they do in their own mind.
Some of those who post here have had their lives in the hands of others and have stated clearly FROM EXPERIENCE how stoners come across to those around them, yet you still want us to pat you on the back and say "Cool, Dude!"
My advice is to take your pipe, shove it in deeply, and smoke your own crap rather than asking a bunch of internet strangers to coddle your poorly thought out and misguided opinions.

It was either school or sitting on the street corner playing my flute.

[Rick]

In the end your choice is what you choose to do, and I from personal experince I would much rather hang out with the kid on pot, mushrooms, acid, or anything, who would rather listen to the forest than sit in Macdonalds and eat a big mac.

I'd much rather have the avionics on my next flight designed by an electrical engineer eating a Big Mac than one that is on acid, mushrooms or weed.

[Chris]

The one big problem I have with weed is it is a starter drug..try this see how good you feel, after while try acid, the heroin, the meth....I have seen it happen to to many people both in my work and in my family. Pot may be, as some say harmless, but the rest are not. Try to talk to a mother who has just lost a kid to an overdose, or a MVA because of drugs.....

Only because it is illegal, forcing otherwise reasonable people to go to a drug dealer to buy it, and the drug dealer isn't going to not push more expensive stuff on you and go for the upsell.

You know why cigarettes, the active ingredient being far more addictive and dangerous, are NOT a gateway drug? Because you don't buy them from drug dealers.

In the end the most compelling reason to legalize it is economic. If California legalized it, just with sales tax, and not with any additional tax, it'd balance their budget.

It is kinda like gambling or the lottery. The government has sanctioned the activity and they get revenue from it to support schools, meanwhile less people are visiting illegal gambling locations that benefit organized crime and lead to violence.

[RangerXanatos]

Cannabis is fine for material such as hemp rope.

But as far as recreational drugs, I have no respect for people that use it. Any person that uses any mind altering drug for recreation is a low life in my eyes. That being said, alcohol is only mind altering after so much has been drunk. And people that are constantly getting drunk are low lifes also. I have no pity for these people as long as they are on these drugs or habbits. People that come clean are ok in my book. But otherwise, they can lose their all of their possesions, cut their leg off (as stated before), pick anything which seems terrible. I don't care, you will not get anything from me. Only the innocent ones deserve and will get my pity.

I've people to say that it wouldn't be here if we weren't supposed to use it. My reply is to go and try smoking a rolled leaf of poison ivy, or go eat destroying angel...

But seeing as this was your first post, it says to me that you only crave attention. Therefore, I have nothing more to say to you since you should be able to discen how I feel about you. oop:

[MatthewnOK]

I'm going to speak from personal experience here. My brother started out smoking pot, and then went to heavier stuff. Him and a buddy got caught brewing meth and got a nice ride with the red and blue light people. We had to take out a loan to bail him out. Now he's had two wives, several children he never visits or talks to, and several warrents out for his arrest. I believe pot is only a stepping stone to heavier stuff. It's a terrible thing to see someone's life ruined. Pot also shortens your life span, gives you breathing problems. Because of a breathing problem i can only breathe about half what a normal person can. Trust me, it's not a nice feeling to be so out of breathe you wanna collapse after you've barely walked a half mile. Make the smart choice man, don't do drugs.

[woodsman86]

OK here comes my 2 cent comments.

From an Army NCO's view...it is not acceptable at all
The Army has a strict Zero Tolerance Policy with drugs

Every Soldier I have dealt with that has decided to endulge in a toke has been reduced to lowest possible rank and dishonorably discharged. They usually end up drying my truck off at the car wash because no one else will hire them.

To defend against the comments about "if they don't do it at work than whats it matter" That only works until they smoke some bad s**t and go crazy on their chain of command, taking away from our fighting force.

Yes in my younger days prior to the Army I endulged in more than my fair share of illegal drugs and see it as a bad decision that could have had a very negative impact on my future.

Remember if your going to do the crime, be prepared to do the time.

[DOGMAN]

I hear the arguments for legalization, and I have no problem with that. Legalize it and tax it...I am all for it. But, my argument is still the same as earlier. Obsessing/Craving/Jonesing for anything... be it booze, weed, or the nectar of the gods known as Red Bull is all a sign of weakness. these things arent necessites and if your mind or lifestyle have you desiring these things on a regular basis your setting yourself up for an added struggle in a survival situation. Its all about SELF RELIANCE and LIVING FREE in all situations, and if your craving mind/body altering substances than your not free or truly self-reliant

[Riverrat]

Sorry Chris I don't agree, cigarettes don't make you high, they do not impair your driving, or other motor skills. I have seen to many kids and adults with their lives ruined by drugs, be it pot or meth, all the same to me. I have seen a car upside down in a ditch, a tree 10" round cut off, and two very dead teens around it. They were smoking pot before they went to a movie, the girl who was driving lived, she is now in a home because of the mental anguish of having killed her friends. She was a beautiful you lady, real sweet girl, friends with my oldest daughter, and now sits and stares at walls. She is 25 now, 17 at the time of the accident.

The other two who died were a young lad 16 and a 16 year old girl who died in my arms....sorry I don't agree, and I also don't agree with this topic being allowed on a Wilderness Survival Forum....to may young minds on here.

[Pal334]

After my initial comments on this issue, I sat back and “watched” the forum, fully cognizant of the fact that we all have a right to our own opinions. However I have to agree with Riverrat when he says that he does not agree with this topic being on this forum. There are many younger folks here and I am concerned that these pathetic (my opinion) rationalizations seem to be trivializing (hope there is such a word) the fact that pot is illegal, does effect ones motor skills and judgment (as does usage of alcohol). If an individual is in a position of trust, public service, police, military, teaching, Scout Master, having a government security clearance, etc , you can not avoid the fact that you are and always will be held to a standard different than the “average Joe”. Woodsman rightly mentions the U.S. Military “zero tolerance policy” for drugs There is a good reason for that , it is disruptive to good order and discipline (as is overuse of alcohol). And the contention that the only reason that pot is a “starter drug” is because it is illegal is plain silliness, look at other countries where it is legal, it is a “starter drug” in those places. Call me a hater if you will, I will proudly wear the title, and if you work for me, be prepared to bounce on your posterior on the way out the door if you use pot, other drugs or misuse alcohol.

[Sarge47]

Woulda, Coulda, shoulda. Here's the skinny. Marijauna IS illeagal & can be detected in the human body up to 30 days after the person uses it. I got pulled off of my bus a while back for a "random" drug test. Of course I was clean, but if I hadn't been I'd have been terminated immediately! Don't need no "pot-heads" driving buses, I guess. They can even test from a hair focible. Anymore companies are demanding a "drug & alcohol free" work place. With that said I leave you with these words from Brewer & Shipley:

"One toke over the line sweet Jesus, one toke over the line.
Sittin' downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
waitin' for the train to take me home sweet Mary
hopin' that the train is on time.
Sittin' downtown in a railway station, one toke over the line."

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Then got so stoned I lost the T-shirt.
Ya all do what you want, but there's a lot of other things I'd rather spend my money on. Like a Ka-Bar/Becker BK7!

[Stairman]

Ill take a swipe at this one.I smoked pot off and on for 30 years.Never got hooked,never stole to buy pot,was outspoken then about it and am still the blacksheep of the family because of it.In my experience with it,a few hits does you better than a whole joint.Having a buzz was stimulating and opened your senses up tenfold!It would get me off the couch not on it.The creativity gained was emense.I could play guitar not better but as good and wouldnt tire of it as fast.It gave me patience and made me nicer and more mello.Lifting weights[exercise]became less boring and workouts were alot more productive.On the other hand smoking the whole joint was totally different.All those positives or most are gone.You eat too much and are content on the couch watching Mr Rogers with his trolley and strange puppets.Moderation was the key.Now at 46 I dont want legal trouble over it and have kind of a been there done that attitude.As stated any smoke inhaled in the lungs longterm is not good for you and Im living the rest of my life as healthy as I can .As for my advice to you,keep only misdemeaner amounts,dont drive and smoke it,and use it in moderation.

[Dennis K.]

Hey Chris - from our thread starter here in his intro:

LOL, good to see theirs actually some humour in this forum. And I can honestly say i've never rode my bike stoned, thats just straight up dangerous. And yes I love the bush aswell as smoking the bush, lol.

I guess a motor vehicle would be more safe?

OK - my personal feelings about pot. If you are an informed, mature adult, with no children to be responsible for, with a job that does not require you to be responsible for the health and safety of others, then go ahead. It's your life, your money.
For medicinal uses, under the care of a physician, I have no problems with it.

BUT

Pot is illegal in most states. It will get you fired from many jobs. IF you are a kid and use it and get arrested, you MIGHT be able to pass it off as a crime of youth when you apply for a job - that doesn't work to well if you are in your mid-30's or 40's or 50's. Contrary to popular and misguided belief, you are NOT safe to operate a motor vehicle while on this stuff.

Pot-advocates like to say "do you feel the same about alcohol or caffeine or nicotine, or Diet Coke?"
Well, No.
None of those are illegal, nor do they carry the same social stigma as illegal drugs. I don't drink alcohol and drive. Same with certain prescription medications.

Pot-advocates like to tout the "health benefits." I think some of the firefighters here can accurately describe the effects of smoke inhalation. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of the lungs and airways. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

ehhh.... rather than quote a bunch of stuff, here's a link:
http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/f...-marijuana.htm

found this one rather interesting:
Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.

[Riverrat]

Very well put Dennis, and you did not use one word that had to be edited out....

[Pal334]

Alpine, this is the beauty of a democracy, you do not have to agree with me, nor I with you.

[trax]

Natives have used cannabis, peyote, "magic" mushrooms, and other plants that I'm not even going to discuss here (but call me and we can arrange something ) ceremonially in different areas. All of them have been misused and abused by natives and non-natives alike throughout the ages.

Let's recall that there was a time when opium dens were quite fashionable to the gentlemen of London, wow..the times they are a-changin!

I was just reading a piece of JJ Astor, reputed to be America's first millionaire, started the American Fur Company which led all those trappers and traders that we all admire here so much tramping off into the west in search of wealth and glory. Well, it turns out that ol' JJ did OK in the fur trade, but made his real money as an opium dealer. Looks like it's a grand old tradition, of sorts.

[Dennis K.]

OK, so your argument is:
Nicotine is bad for you and legal, so let's make pot legal.
hmmm....

And since you're only argument

I presented several - including a gateway argument, a health argument, and an impairment argument.

As far as me being closed minded, hypocritical, judgemental and uptight because I never tried it....
hmmm - let's think about this for a minute.
Miranda vs. Arizone (Supreme Court) - "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"
So, perhaps I would not want to admit on a public forum that everyone can see, that I might have broken an established law?

Also, why is it that pot-advocates always offer up this appeal to emotion that it is all about money and the big guy oppressing the poor little guys that just want to get baked - heck we ain't hurtin' nobody

Offer up some sound, peer-reviewed science and I will be open to it. Note, that does not mean MORMAL propaganda, nor would it include MADD propaganda.

[Chris]

Sorry Chris I don't agree, cigarettes don't make you high, they do not impair your driving, or other motor skills. I have seen to many kids and adults with their lives ruined by drugs, be it pot or meth, all the same to me. I have seen a car upside down in a ditch, a tree 10" round cut off, and two very dead teens around it. They were smoking pot before they went to a movie, the girl who was driving lived, she is now in a home because of the mental anguish of having killed her friends. She was a beautiful you lady, real sweet girl, friends with my oldest daughter, and now sits and stares at walls. She is 25 now, 17 at the time of the accident.

The other two who died were a young lad 16 and a 16 year old girl who died in my arms....sorry I don't agree, and I also don't agree with this topic being allowed on a Wilderness Survival Forum....to may young minds on here.

It must be so convenient for the anti-marijuana crowd to link it to things like say, meth, heroine, cocaine, etc. Those drugs can actually kill you, can actually cause a chemical addiction.

Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. And many of you are making the logical fallacy of cum hoc also known as, correlation != causation.

Because some person is a violent criminal and also does dangerous drugs (meth, whatever) does not mean that that behavior was caused by pot use.

You might have an anecdotal example of a teen who got high and crashed a car. Well, that is sad, but what about the teen who was tired because they were up studying and crashed a car? Or the teen that was drinking and crashed a car? I don't think anyone things pot should be legal for 16 year olds, or that there shouldn't still be a driving under the influence statute.

If anything that could possibly be a factor in a car accident needs to be outlawed, where do we stop? Put everyone on a curfew, mandate x hours of sleep, outlaw cell phones, outlaw alcohol, cough syrup, prescription medications, cigarettes (it might not make you high, but if you smoke while driving you're distracted and only using one hand), fast food drive throughs?

Or should we, perhaps, only pass laws relegating the behavior of drivers, and not perse the behaviors of people sitting in their backyards?