Self-defense and security questions.....

**Ole WV Coot** · 03-01-2009, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by SARKY

Noone wins in a knife fight! As to birnging a knife to a gun fight.... depends on the distance between us and wether or not the gun is already drawn.
If it a choice between being good or lucky i'll choose lucky every time! You can be the best there is and the bad guy only has to get lucky once and then your done!

I had to add a little. I have used, seen used, seen results but I have never seen or been in a face to face knife fight. If I use one ever again you will have your back to me, facing me you won't see it. I will use anything against one. I never have just one. No way even at my age you will even get close to disarming me, been tried. I will get out of Dodge if I don't have distance and a decent firearm. Consider that every person you ever face is tougher, meaner and more dangerous than you are and you will be right more times than not. I burnt the T shirt but still remember the first two.

**canid** · 03-01-2009, 10:28 PM

well the answer would certainly depend on your proficiency with a bow, but first, i feel that the defensive edge you have is far better than the one you do not. e.g. it's better to injure a dangerous intruder at 10-20' than at 3', especially if they are not likely to be disarmed/incapacitated instantly.

i would personally rather face an armed home invader with a bow than with my hands, or a knife if those where my best choices and the situation demanded immediate action.

one benefit at least to defending yourself with a bow is that it is a weapon an attacker is less likely to use on you if he/she gets it away from you. imagine folding his kneecap back with a stomp kick while he's fumbling around trying to nock an arrow, a manuveure you may have practiced to the point of reflex.

**wildography** · 03-01-2009, 11:21 PM

aye, when it comes to self-defence, you use whatever you have. The BEST way to prepare for self-defence is forethought, practice, and training. Another thought - do not look at movies or tv for learning self-defense, its all choreographed and practiced.

Main thing to remember, for self-defence, is that there are no rules. Were I to use a knife in self-defense, some of my primary "targets" that I would focus on would be taking out the eyes, the throat (with a stab, then slash), the achilles' tendon, or the wrists. The stomach, chest, arms, groin are too easy to defend.

Same thing with other weapons... my "credo" is: if they can't stand, if they can't breath, if they can't see, then they can't fight. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule... so try to stick with my favorite Sun Tzu saying: "the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought". (that means: win the battle without having to fight)

**canid** · 03-01-2009, 11:32 PM

"the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought"

some of the best advice in this thread.

i'm ready to defend my home against intruders, but i don't forsee the problem arising, and moreover, keep myself away from conflict at almost all times.

**wildography** · 03-01-2009, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by chiangmaimav

I must disagree with the statement that a knife is fairly easy to go up against. Unless you are armed with a gun, it is far, far from easy. In 25 years working in prison I have been involved in altercations with knife-wielding inmates both when I was unarmed and when I had a baton. I am a well-trained person and have been a martial arts teacher as well as unarmed defensive tactics instructor and I always got cut and am lucky to be alive. I think it is a dangerous thing to tell people it is easy to defend yourself against a knife. it is not, and my best advice for anyone who is unarmed and must face someone with a knife is to run like hell if possible. I would. If you cannot run, then concentrate on not getting killed, because you will almost surely get hurt.

Good point, Chiangmaimav... I stand corrected; I should have clarified. ANY type of fighting, with any chance of winning requires training, practice, and forethought. With the use of any weapon, even a rock, you should be competent in its use before trying to use it for self-defence. So, if you are going up against a person that is trained/practiced in the use of weapons, the difficulty of prevailing is much harder. You can have a thousand dollar custom made combat, home-defense shotgun/knife/handgun/sword/bow, but if you are not competent in its use, it could be more dangerous to you or to other family members than it is to the "home invader". And, as Chiangmaiav said, in a fight in which someone is trying to hurt/kill you, you will likely get hurt/cut/etc... so be prepared mentally to survive however you can... even if that means running away or leaving the other person disabled for life... or dead.

**sh4d0wm4573ri7** · 03-01-2009, 11:48 PM

The bow is a formidable weapon and has been for hundreds if not thousands of years man or otherwise it will kill in experienced hands

**Ole WV Coot** · 03-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by wildography

aye, when it comes to self-defence, you use whatever you have. The BEST way to prepare for self-defence is forethought, practice, and training. Another thought - do not look at movies or tv for learning self-defense, its all choreographed and practiced.

Main thing to remember, for self-defence, is that there are no rules. Were I to use a knife in self-defense, some of my primary "targets" that I would focus on would be taking out the eyes, the throat (with a stab, then slash), the achilles' tendon, or the wrists. The stomach, chest, arms, groin are too easy to defend.

Same thing with other weapons... my "credo" is: if they can't stand, if they can't breath, if they can't see, then they can't fight. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule... so try to stick with my favorite Sun Tzu saying: "the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought". (that means: win the battle without having to fight)

That sounds awful good. You can talk the talk but have you ever walked the real walk? Just curious, most men on here just had a little government training, free of charge and don't hardly know how to salute.

I am kinda curious about if you have time to think or act on reflex.

**canid** · 03-02-2009, 12:13 AM

i react better by reflex. i'm otherwise an overthinker by nature.

**Mike00006** · 03-02-2009, 12:22 AM

Well, my input is that use whatever you are good with. A relatively silent weapon is better than a gunshot when there are multiple targets in the house. If you are a good shot with it, then use it, but just do not miss. It is easy to say that you will hit your target, but when the andrenaline is flowing and all that its not as easy as you think. Thats why most people use shotguns for self defense, I personally have a M1911 loaded with HPs ready, but I use it because I am proficient with it.

There are disadvantages with every weapon known to man in a CQB situation, so the best thing I can tell you is to choose what you know how to use, be it a bow, shotgun, pistol, or knife.

**wildography** · 03-02-2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

That sounds awful good. You can talk the talk but have you ever walked the real walk? Just curious, most men on here just had a little government training, free of charge and don't hardly know how to salute.

I am kinda curious about if you have time to think or act on reflex.

LOL... yah... security specialist in the U.S.A.F for 4 years; about 6 more years of security employment with more training; plus have known a few guys over the years that have taught me some things... plus, I read, and think, alot.

I first realized how much training that I have had when I worked security at a shopping mall. I was trying to get four gang members (ages 18-22) to leave the mall because they were raising hell. At about the same time that my brain told me that one of the guys (in front of me) was swinging at me, I saw a fist come flying up out of the corner of my eye.

That fist (that I saw out of the corner of my eye) was my left hand coming up to hit the guy with a back-fist, while my right hand was coming up to back-fist another guy charging at me. Two of the guys ended up hitting the ground and the other two guys changed their mind. And, yup... they all went to jail that night.

But I've never forgotten about how I didn't "realize" I was in a fight until my fist was already on its way to hitting a guy.

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

One of my "things" is that I try to learn from anyone about anything.

**catfish10101** · 03-02-2009, 02:04 AM

They say that an attacker at 21 feet away with a knife is a threat to your life. You would be surprised how fast a person can cover 21 feet. If he's already running, you better be be fast at whatever decision you make!! You will not have time to change your mind either, so be ready to go through with whatever you decide to do.

**Ole WV Coot** · 03-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by wildography

LOL... yah... security specialist in the U.S.A.F for 4 years; about 6 more years of security employment with more training; plus have known a few guys over the years that have taught me some things... plus, I read, and think, alot.

I first realized how much training that I have had when I worked security at a shopping mall. I was trying to get four gang members (ages 18-22) to leave the mall because they were raising hell. At about the same time that my brain told me that one of the guys (in front of me) was swinging at me, I saw a fist come flying up out of the corner of my eye.

That fist (that I saw out of the corner of my eye) was my left hand coming up to hit the guy with a back-fist, while my right hand was coming up to back-fist another guy charging at me. Two of the guys ended up hitting the ground and the other two guys changed their mind. And, yup... they all went to jail that night.

But I've never forgotten about how I didn't "realize" I was in a fight until my fist was already on its way to hitting a guy.

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

One of my "things" is that I try to learn from anyone about anything.

Glad you verified that. You would be surprised at the number of "mall masters" that would hurt themselves. Welcome aboard and that was the right attitude and answer I wanted to hear. Absolutely no insult intended I have just heard enough war stories that didn't ring true.

**Rick** · 03-02-2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Canid

I react better by reflex. i'm otherwise an overthinker by nature.

I'll have to think about that.

Wildlife- I'll never forget the time I saw two feet flying through the air. It took a minute to realize they were mine and even then I didn't understand how quickly I could react when I stepped on those icy steps. Laying flat of my back at the bottom of the stairs I realized just how pitifully slow I am.

Catfish - I'll bet FVR would never cover those 21 feet. His knife might but he won't! Yikes......

**Alpine_Sapper** · 03-02-2009, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

I have just heard enough war stories that didn't ring true.

lol. haven't we all...

**trax** · 03-02-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by wildography

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

HA! Polite? You been readin the other threads around here brother? What makes you special?? PO-LITE..hmmph

actually folks, maybe this wildography guy is on to something...polite huh??

**Alpine_Sapper** · 03-02-2009, 04:29 PM

pfffffffttt... polite is for pansies and pussies. I don't have petals or a furry tail.

**GuyInSD** · 03-02-2009, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by catfish10101

They say that an attacker at 21 feet away with a knife is a threat to your life. You would be surprised how fast a person can cover 21 feet.

Amen to that! 21 feet has also been used by courts in self-defense cases (including guns in homes) to determine if someone should have been considered a real threat.

Using a bow can kill a man, but so can a .22 -- it's all in where it hits. Others have already covered the issue of "use what you have" and "practice what you have" but do remember to be realistic in your practice. Get used to shooting with your fingers (sounds silly perhaps but many shooters use a release), for example.

Also, it's not clear if you were talking recurve or compound (perhaps I missed it). The latter has huge advantage of compactness and power. And, while I've never heard about a "self-defense" arrow tip, there is no question a compound bow launched broadhead will penetrate a man -- seen them go through large deer at greater than 40 yards. Probably won't have any trouble following the blood trail either!

Jericho, great to hear you thinking about taking care of those around you! Way to man up -- just be wise about it and you'll keep everyone safe.

**Cleankill47** · 03-02-2009, 08:28 PM

Don't forget the cheaper things you can get that are readily made into weapons, like a good machete or hatchet you can get at a good hardware store. Since you make flint arrowheads, you might want to try a flint knife; they can be made sharper than razors if you shave off thin enough flakes.

Don't discount anything you have as a weapon if you need it to be. I've seen some people get pretty messed up by one guy with a 22oz framing hammer. Just check out what's available, I have a feeling you'll do good with whatever you get ahold of if you have to.

**canid** · 03-02-2009, 08:50 PM

when i dropped my bike in san francisco, i had no clear idea i was going down until i was picking myself up off the ground. i've never had anything on foot happen to me as fast as an auto accident.