urban/suburban garden resources

so i spend a lot of time walking [no good riding around too much without plates].

i come across a lot of trash in alleys, particualrly in poorer neighborhoods.

i also come across a lot of creative use of alleys and roadsides. for example, it is illegal to develop alley space for gardening, but i notice in many of the dirtiest neighborhoods around town, i see vegetable gardens spilling onto city propery.

personally, i love this. people around here grow spineless Opuntia ficus-indica everywhere. where it grows along fences, pads even break off and take root on roadsides. during the summer, i often collect fruit from these.

today, while passing by a couple of areas such as these, i collected some plant material for my garden and landscape. young yuccas, which are both useful and beautiful [there's nothing like tropical plants to make a hot, dry, blazing summer look lush and inviting. it can only improve the yard].

chayote squash which where climbing down the public side of a residential fence and dropped to the ground, to sprout and to eat.

prickly pear pads with fresh buds for landscaping and food.

after all this, i've seen broken automotive parts which can easily be reused, old fencing material that would come handy when it's time to build the raised beds [i built all of my last raised beds from junked board lumber already on site and going to waste].

i'm rambling, but i'm sure you get my point. these resources are everywhere, and i'm not ashamed to make some extra use of them.

Nor should you be ashamed. Recycling non-plant materials and taking advantage of plant (edible) materials is really what we should be about. My family discards very little in the form of trash. Most gets recycled or composted. Even broken items either find a new life in some other gizmo (I call it my organ donor program) or is stripped down for usable parts. There really isn't a need for us to be such a wasteful society and taking advantage of those material items as well as the edible ones shows you to be a lot smarter than the folks that tossed them out only to become an eye sore.

This kind of fits with what sjj was talking about with scavenging. There are many benefits from participating in the renewal/reusing of materials. It certainly helps the environment. For those that participate it saves money. Often the thing that intrigues me the most is wondering about the history of an item.

My mom has a lot of junk with flowers planted in it and it actually looks real good.

We recycle here too and it's amazing how little trash we have when you take out the good plastics, metals and paper products.

I feel guilty when i go to other people's houses and see them throw out a can or cardboard box now. There are not too many communities around here that have a curbside recycling program. Maybe 50/50!

I use anything I can find that has been tossed out for trash. You'll find me checkin out barns and storage sheds for old junk that has been hanging around unused for decades and I'll ask if the owner will part with them. If it's edible stuff, that usually means it's "wild weeds" and they could care less (nobody wants to eat "poor man's veggies").
I found a lady cleaning out her flower beds and she whacked down a pile of yuccas. I didn't bother explaining the value of the plants and roots. I just asked if I could get some and she was more than happy for me to haul them away for her.

aren't scavenging and recycling (for our purposes) pretty much the same thing?

Old tractor tyres are great! In my old garden, I used them to grow the pumpkins/squashes in. You can really pile in the compost and manure and get fantastic fruits. I've also used those big, blue plastic barrels cut in half for fruit that maybe has special soil requirements that your garden doesn't have.

I'm all for scavenging. I'm the guy who's truck sometimes weighs out heavier at the dump than when it came in (before they got adamant about the no-picking rules).

The thing you have to watch for though is when using re-claimed materials in your garden that you aren't introducing toxic chemicals. Old painted wood is especially suspect. I was just today scoping the net looking at how to raise container potatoes and several were against using tires due to the chemicals used in the rubber. Potatoes are a soil contact root crop though.

I'm always careful about plants growing 'on the side of the road.' Especially if they are on a fence, public side or not. Around here, fences are set back 1-3 feet from property lines. I'd get pretty bent if someone was harvesting off my fence so I don't do it. But it's usually a good conversation that develops if the person is out and about and you ask them about the plants and the fruits you want. I also don't harvest or transplant wild plants but take cuttings or make note of where they are and collect seed instead. I'm not in a survival situation and can afford not to decimate a wild stand (wouldn't do that IN a survival situation either) and I have the space to set out new starts.

Another thing you can do is check out properties that are being developed and go in before the bulldozers. Around here that's a good way to get high and low bush blueberry plants and many other good wild things. Especially if the property used to be a larger estate or former farm.

Yep, Scavenger here too. I grabbed a folding table the other day that a lady was throwing out and I plan on making it my foldable welding table. Just need to take off the old beat up wooden top and weld on some expanded metal. Nothing fancy and better than spending money on a new one.

I also grab the wood pallets from work and take them home and cut up into pieces for campfire wood. Sawzall and hour of work I get a whole bunch of dried hot fast burning wood.

I do have to stop dragging stuff home though I am starting to run out of room in the garage!:wacko:

i think i need to start dragging even more stuff home.

sadly, scrap steel pieces are often too heavy.

btw: my prickly pear are doing great. chayote haven't quite sprouted yet.

Prickly pear does great anywhere. In the Midwest, during winter, it shrivels up and you would think it was dead. But come spring it fills out and it's just as good as ever. I kept it for about 10-11 years and finally got tired of picking the tiny hair needles out of hand so I got rid of them. Those things hurt like crazy.

they are quite a pain, but i don't get 'em stuck often. usually they get just lightly embedded at the tips, just enough to itch, but be easily pulled or brushed off.

i hate the glochids on the fruit worst. this variety has almost naked pads.

I don't know what variety I had but they had thousands of tiny hair like needles and you would get 20 or so stuck in you just by touching the plant. And they were harder than heck to get out. Almost like they had a barb on the end. I got stuck once too many times.

Garbage truck driving away.
Wife: "Where's the cactus?"
Me: "What cactus?"

haha! nice.

the [nearly] spinless varieties are the cultivated forms from mexico, where they have long been grown for food. they are more common in my area than the decorative/landscaping cultivars.

went out and weeded the garden a bit this morning, and started a new row.

the garden is being overrun by chickweed. i suppose i shouldn't complain too much.

since i live in wine country, and have been rooting grape cuttings [which are easily found even in neglected and accidental locations all over my area] already, i decided to try to take some root stock from out local wild grape and graft them.

I don't worry too much about weeding this time of year. Most of my plants are what most people call weeds so ... since I've been learning about wild edibles over the last year has taught me that those can be just as yummy as the plants I labor over.
During the summer season, I worry about weeds mainly because they harbor bugs that think I grew the plants just for them.
This spring I will be planting a more experimental "permaculture" garden, Which I'm learning about through the book I won in the plant contest, "Gaia's Garden". Hopefully it will keep the bugs in check and will make for less weeding.

i have to worry about weeding, my spinach, dill and lettuce are getting inundated.

i don't nix all the weeds, but dandelion, sow thistle and chickweed are plentiful enough in the rest of the yard as it is.

the chickweed doesn't seem to root too deeply, and would make a good cover crop when the other crops are larger. i'm mostly leaving it in place amongst the garlic, mustard, etc. since they are already several times taller.

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Originally Posted by YCC

since I've been learning about wild edibles over the last year has taught me that those can be just as yummy as the plants I labor over.

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It's actually pretty easy to cultivate weeds into your garden. Since they are acclimated to your area they are generally very hardy. For example, I allow Purslane and Wild Onion to grow in my garden. They add to my yield and I enjoy eating them.

another resource sometimes overlooked is the grocery or supermarket.

let's try to put together a list of supermarket commodities that can furnish garden crops. for a start:

root-crops

potatoes: these sometimes sprout on their own in the pantry. those which show an inclination to sprout already are often the best for seed pieces. they can be cut up into pieces containing at least one eye and planted into the garden. in the right climate, sweet potatoes can be propagated this way as well.

yams: if you live in a tropical or semitropical area, you likely know the difference between sweet potatoes and yams. yam tubers can be planted in the garden in these regions as well.

garlic: garlic cloves can be divided and planted. shallots and bunching leeks can be as well.

yuca/cassava/manioc: this root crop can be cultivated by cuttings of rootstock in tropical to semitropical regions.

ginger: ginger can be propagated by dividing lobes from roots sold in groceries.

jerusalem artichoke: growing in popularity with many, they can be found in many healthfood stores, and can be grown from the tubers sold.

chinese artichoke, or chorogi: if you live in an area where this is plant is eaten, tubers from the market can be planted.

non-tree fruits

chilies: chilies of a great many varieties are sold in a state where the seeds are mature, and can often be found with viable seed.

tomato: i have seldom gotten seed from grocery store tomato to germinate, but with enough trying, you can find some.

squash: winter squash in particular are harvested mature enough to have viable, fully developed seed.

chayote: this mexican squash is excellent, though not familiar to many. the squash can often be coaxed to sprout if left in the fridge too long, and can be better persuaded by packing them in damp potting mix and keeping them in a cool place. the seed will not germinate outside the fruit, so the whole fruit must be sprouted.

okra: like chilies, okra can be found mature enough for have viable seed.

spices

many seeds are used as spices, and if not parched before sale, can be sprouted. among these are dill, cellery, dried chilies [such as crushed red pepper], fennel, caraway, corriander.

if any of you think of any more examples, feel free to chime in.

This will work a long as it is not a hybrid item,otherwise it works great!

Thanks canid for the reminder, dried beans will grow and produce.

there is a lot of confusion about hybrids and speciation in fruits and vegetables.

strictly speaking, hybrids are only crosses between those cultivars which are separate species, and two cultivars are only separate species if they are never capable of producing reproducrively viable offspring.

our systematic classification of species is not always sound, and many plants considered to be separate species in the literature are perfectly capable of producing viable offspring, either always, or under some circumstances.

this can be observed when breeding Brassicas.

interestingly; some of these so called hybrids can even be bred only several generations and then begin to degenerate. some can be germinated and grown for vegetables but will not themselves produce viable seed.

to further complicate matters; many fruits and vegetables are called hybrids but are really only crosses of cultivars within the same species.

for both of these reasons, not everything labled hybrid is infertile or non-viable.

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Originally Posted by canid

for both of these reasons, not everything labled hybrid is infertile or non-viable.

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Oh crap! You mean that some of those little cars, might reproduce?:innocent: LOL

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Oh crap! You mean that some of those little cars, might reproduce?:innocent: LOL

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Nope, as a general rule, they are as infertile as their drivers!:)

yup.

btw: i just planted potatoes, those chayote and two varieties of winter squash [acorn and spaghetti].

If non-hybrid:
Oranges
Lemmons
Limes
Pumpkins

I think you covered most of the ones that I would grow here in the sun-belt canid except maybe onions. They are easy to root just like potatoes. of course I have some wild ones so we mostly use those. This has turned into a good thread :D

If my camera worked, I'd take pictures of the peanut fields (hundreds of acres) that are not being used right now and are full of wild mustards and other greens. I don't think I'll worry about many greens next year when they grow all by themselves of their own free will lol. everybody around here calls em "weeds" but I think it is really disrespectful.

uhm, mustard greens.

mine are coming along, but not nearly ready, and i'm still eating the stuff i dried last year. naturalized mustards are very common around here, i don't know why i haven't gone out and picked any lately.

I'm slowly migrating my garden and plantings around the house to wild edibles and fruits. I don't know what the neighbors are going to say once the "weeds" start taking over but I'll cross that bridge then.

Funny you should mention that Rick. There are 'communities' around here that don't allow what they consider to be unsightly yards. There was something in the paper recently about one of these communities taking some woman to court for having a Kitchen Garden for a whole front yard instead of a manicured lawn. It "broke the rules of the property covenant", was unsightly, messy and a "haven for rodents" according to the trustees. It's gotten so you have to ask before you buy.

I live in a lake community. They don't care about what you grow in your yard. They don't care if you fertilize your manicured lawn with nitrates that may run off. But you can't have chickens or ducks or large livestock because it may pollute the lake water. We won't mention the beavers, ducks and Canada geese in the lake already.

When growing seeds of hybrids you are never sure what you are going to get for offspring. Chances are 50% of your crop will either not germinate (think Mule) or will be some sort of throwback to either parent of the hybrid. With hybrids you lose some of the reproductive vigor of the parents too. With F1 hybrid seed (the first generation cross) you get what they call Hybrid vigor in the first growing cycle but that fades in subsequent generations.

Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store. Other produce is waxed or radiation treated to increase shelf life. That's one reason why Organic produce has to be kept physically separated on store shelves either bagged or in a totally separated case, so these chemical contaminants don't touch them. And some grocery stores aren't so careful about following Organic separation rules.

Other produce you can try are any of the root stocks. The trick is to get them to go to seed to grow more. Radishes, beets, possibly carrots and turnips... But...store produce is also homogenized. All virtually the same variety. All the carrots look the same because they are the same. There is no genetic diversity. You want diversity in your garden. While using store produce may seem economical, you get far more bang for your buck if you invest in Heirloom open-pollinated seeds.

We won't mention the Terminator genes they are attempting to introduce into plants so only the main crop grows but all seeds are sterile. There is also a form of potato out there that will not grow unless treated with a specific chemical that you have to buy from the manufacturer. You can grow all the potatoes you want if you buy the seed stock and the chemical activator, but the tubers themselves cannot be replanted. This, to keep them from sprouting on the shelves. So they say.

Yucca grows anywhere I think. I'm in zone 5 and it grows here. Very well.

Whups, sorry for the book ^:o

No problem. It was a good post. We have an association here as well. They are pretty straight laced about yards. I can see the good and bad and don't mind. It's one of the things that has helped keep property values high around here.

I have winter squash growing on the curb last summer and no one said anything but I sure had a lot of folks stopping to look. You'd have thought I had a velociraptor tied up out there.

I also have a lot of natives plants that aren't seen that often. Things like Fire Pinks. Native to this area but almost gone now.

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Originally Posted by LowKey

Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store. Other produce is waxed or radiation treated to increase shelf life. That's one reason why Organic produce has to be kept physically separated on store shelves either bagged or in a totally separated case, so these chemical contaminants don't touch them. And some grocery stores aren't so careful about following Organic separation rules.

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The potatoes we grew last year were eyes off potatoes we let sprout right from the bag. sliced them up, limed them, popped them in the dirt.
They grew fine. Irish, new, and Idaho

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Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store.

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i wish to god people would learn the difference between sometimes and usually.

e.g.

most potatoes can be easily sprouted, and will tend to sprout on their own if forgotten in a pantry. it is a relatively rare find for me, whatever the brand, to get a bag i have any trouble sprouting.

having never bought seed potatoes for reds or russets, all my seed pieces come from grocery stores.

rick: i think squash plants are quite attractive. i'm putting some in the front this season.

I live in the nanny northeast with all the yuppies and x-geners. They wouldn't buy an apple with a spot on it. I've tried the store potatoes here. If they sprout rather than rot, they sprout the weirdest looking stems you've ever seen and never really leaf out or grow properly. Certainly not healthy. I don't think it's a 'sometimes' thing here.

I'm sure other areas of the country are different. Especially if you are near the grower's market. Sorry for the inadvertent all-encompassing statement.

my potatoes always sprout out all funky if they do it in the cupboard. i get them in the soil and they are slow to emerge, but grow out just fine.

i got to go grocery shopping today, and i bought a bunch of produce. dinner was a pizza, so i collected seed from quite mature roma tomatoes, which are now in a jar with water at room temperature to ferment for a few days. i next collected seed from yellow chilies used, and the smaller cloves from a bulb of garlic.

the next time i use a tomato [probably salsa tomorrow] i will try removing the seeds, drying them part of the way, so that the gel coating can be removed easily, then simply rinsing them well. i think it is possible that they will still germinate with that procedure, but i have the jar fermenting the old fashioned way anyway.

i also bought some pasillas, and i will be test germinating seed from those as well.

on the next trip to winco, i will be picking up some of their caraway, fennel and coriander seeds, and do a test run for those as well.

my jalapenos are looking happy, as are the sugar pie pumpkin, acorn and spaghetti squash [i don't need pure seed from them, and they would make tasty enough crosses anyway]

You probably won't get as many of the dried tomato seeds to germinate as you will the fermented ones but, let's face it, that's exactly how nature does it. That's why you have those volunteers pop up. Folks under estimate the resilience of the tiny seed. Ma Nature has been tossing them on the ground in the fall and leaving them their all winter for eons. All we're trying to do is up the success rate. Good luck!!

yeah. i figured that the purpose of fermentation is to inactivate [metabolize] the germination suppressant compounds in the gel coating on the seed, so i want to find out how well mechanically removing it and then rinsing will work.

What you'll loose, I think, is the ability to tell which seeds are viable. While fermenting, some will sink and some will swim (I know you know that), and that's the part you won't be able tell. Otherwise, I think it will work just fine. I would plant three seeds together and then thin to the strongest just to ensure you have plants in each planter.

that is basically the plan. it's going to be a test run, in addition to the plenty of plants i plan to start anyway. worst case scenario is that i end up with no extra plants. as it stands i need to find room for about 24 chili plants in addition to the tomatoes.

i plan to give some away to a friend who did not get a garden together this year and has a pretty tight grocery budget too.