A Walk In The Snow

With apologies to the movie producers. My conversation with Night Shade in the other thread got me to thinking about this, so here's another scenario for everyone or anyone (I know, oh great another scenario)

You decide to go out into the forest on a late January/early February afternoon. You leave your house around 1:00 pm and head out snowshoeing or x-country skiing. When you leave the house, it's around -15C (apologies to my Farenheit using neighbors) with a wind coming out of the northwest around 10 kilometers per hour and it's kind of cloudy. You're heading south and east. You travel a few kilometers through mostly coniferous evergreen forest, the trees are well spaced for easy access, you cross a small lake and head up the other bank. You can feel the wind increasing but it's behind your back so you don't pay it much attention. You left your general travel plan drawn out on a map back home (clever you) You're enjoying the day and moving at a pretty brisk pace. Here's what you've got going for you:

1) a couple of layers of medium weigh wool clothing with a windbreaker layer overtop, your jacket is pretty much weatherproof and downlined. Toasty.

2) You're wearing leather mitts with sheepskin lining.

3) Insulated and "weatherproof" boots, supposedly good to -40 and heavy weight wool socks.

4) A fixed blade knife, wooden matches, a couple litres of water and some snack food---bag of trail mix and some jerky, a couple of boiled eggs and your metal cup and a couple of tea bags. A good compass and one of those emergency whistles with a small thermometer on the back. (Coghlan's sells them, I don't know who else)

5) A wool hat
Around 4:00 you realize that it's getting late, the sun's getting pretty low on the horizon ,the wind at your back has increased dramatically and is starting to blow snow. Your little thermometer reads that the temperature is now -20 and the wind has increased to about 15-20 kilometers per hour. You decide to head back the way you came and when you turn around....all you can see is snow. You can't even see your own tracks, this is not a clearly defined trail remember, you've been making your way through the trees. The snow is drifting around tree bases, has blown over your tracks and is blowing in your face. What are you going to do? Please don't magically add in any equipment not listed.

Since I've been walking about three hours, and only have - what 1/2 to an hour of light left. With the snow blowing in my face and the light quickly fading, I stop - relax - gather materials to build a shelter. I gather/harvest as many pine boughs as I can for a debris shelter (opening to the southeast). Insulate the shelter with snow to keep the breeze from blowing through. Start a fire (gather dead lower branches, any dead limbs I can find). Make some tea - have a snack. Stay as warm as I can. In the morning I start heading back. Using the compass I head in a north westerly direction. The snow will also be drifting on the north west side of the trees.

Begin heading back, no panic.

You are traveling in and around close to home so you should have a pretty good idea of the lay of the land. Use your compass to help guide you.

From the start, I would have paid attention to where I was going using large markers like the lake and treeline, etc. I could make the three hour trip out in about half that time going back. So, 1 1/2-2 hours to get home. I'm going home immediately, using the compass if needed. i'd chow some food before heading home if I was hungry. This will add heat too.

I suppose if the snow was packable I could quickly build a snowfort/ windbreak and camp out for a few hoping the wind that will be in my face changes direction or calms. Usually around here the wind calms some before dark. Being that cold the snow probably isn't packable and it sounds like it might turn into a real blizzard, so hanging around too long is probably not a good idea. I'd rather walk back thru a foot of snow rather than two or three feet. Honestly, I would just head home ASAP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red lake

Begin heading back, no panic.

You are traveling in and around close to home so you should have a pretty good idea of the lay of the land. Use your compass to help guide you.

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thats what I'd do....you've only been out for three hours, its only four o'clock. we are on the upside of the solstice by that date, so I have another hour and half of light at my lat. So, I'd just scuttle on home, paying attention to my surroundings and making sure to pay attention to landmarks I recognize. Even once it gets totally dark, I'd still keep slowly moving on towards the house. The woods really light up at night when there is snow on the ground, no worries...I've lived out this scenario probably a hundred times. I'll still make it home for dinner.

for me 3 hours from home on snowshoes that is not too far,so i would turn around and head back, i do not live on flat land and have learned my area so that even in the dark i can make it back no problem, as jason points out it is amazing how much the snow illuminates the way

rwc1969- sorry bud but i must respectfully wholeheartedly disagree, the last thing that i would want to do as it cools off and wind picks up with blowing snow is rush home and trying to turn a 3 hour hike into 1.5 hr is not going to work, the sweat you build up could potentially be life threatening, the key is to relax enjoy the night trek.
this scenario might be different if i was 3 hours from camp in an area i was not familiar with but being that close to home thats how i would handle that situation.

Whatever I do.. 1 thing remains important... Don't over exert myself to the point of sweating!

Close to home... I'd head back on a direct route using the compass if I was starting to get cold... If not cold I'd just kinda wander back.. I love being out in the snow at night!

Woods I don't know... Different story!! I'd probably hunker down like Crash said and hike out in a.m. With light and using compass... The whole while cursing my own stupidity for getting myself into such an easily avoidable predicament!

I'm going to find a place to spend the night with a little shelter from the wind, get all the dry wood i can find and build a fire, settle down,eat half my food, save some for morning.
I'm assuming that the folks at home know that i know what i'm doing without calling the rescue squad.

There's what I think is a kind of important piece of equipment that I left out on purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trax

There's what I think is a kind of important piece of equipment that I left out on purpose.

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there is no mention of pants....
so, are we out hiking around with boots and jacket on, but showing our butts to the wind?

Also, there is no mention of a pack, so are we walking around pantless, carrying in our arms..."A fixed blade knife, wooden matches, a couple litres of water and some snack food---bag of trail mix and some jerky, a couple of boiled eggs and your metal cup and a couple of tea bags. A good compass and one of those emergency whistles with a small thermometer on the back"

Ah ha....there lies the danger, the fixed blade knife doesn't have a sheath, so we are walking around in a snow storm with no pants on, and carrying a big ol' Rambo knife...I guess if we slipped on the ice during the lake crossing, things could get pretty intersting!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jason_Montana

there is no mention of pants....
so, are we out hiking around with boots and jacket on, but showing our butts to the wind?

Also, there is no mention of a pack, so are we walking around pantless, carrying in our arms..."A fixed blade knife, wooden matches, a couple litres of water and some snack food---bag of trail mix and some jerky, a couple of boiled eggs and your metal cup and a couple of tea bags. A good compass and one of those emergency whistles with a small thermometer on the back"

Ah ha....there lies the danger, the fixed blade knife doesn't have a sheath, so we are walking around in a snow storm with no pants on, and carrying a big ol' Rambo knife...I guess if we slipped on the ice during the lake crossing, things could get pretty intersting!

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Jason,don't be silly,use yer brain fer sumthin' besides a hatrack for crying out loud!

Jason is absolutely right! No, I gave you all the benefit of the doubt on pants and a pack.

Goggles or sunglasses.

All you guys that are heading back home in those conditions: you're approximately 3 hours out, you don't have 3 hours of daylight left to get home. If you think you walked a straight line, good luck. I'll tell you the mining exploration industry pays good money to anyone who can follow a straight line all day on snowshoes, they're called linecutters. If you think the snow is going to illuminate your path,well maybe on a clear or semi-clear night, but it's blowing snow in your face, it's all going to look alike. Know what else happened? The minute you turned around and realized you couldn't see your path, you got scared. All those spruce trees just started to look alike. The temperature drop and wind increase has put you in almost -30c conditions, no goggles or glasses, your eyelashes are going to start freezing shut walking into that snowstorm and ( a very insightful comment on his part) in regard to what NightShade said...you've already started sweating. If you are an experienced woodsman and in an area you know, you'll probably get home ok. You're not that far away, after all. Of course, there were these fisherman who got shipwrecked in Labrador and froze to death beside their fire so.....close doesn't always help.:cold:

If you're building a shelter and hunkering down, I'd advise taking advantage of all that snow and push it up against the outsides of your shelter for extrainsulation and to help with a windbreak. It's the most common resource out there and everyone overlooks it. You also want to make sure you've gathered plenty of dry material before you start striking matches, because they're going to go out pretty easy in that breeze. Again, experience helps, but of the responses I've seen so far, for a person without experience, I'd go with crash's.

In all honesty....I'd say building a fire is going to be tough...it can be done, but you don't have any fire starter- you've got the bag that the trail mix was in...but that isnt very much to get a fire going in 15-20 mph winds. Your basically in a "to build a fire" kind of predictament in these conditions with just some wooden matches

Also, there really isnt much time to build a very good shelter, for most people building a fire and creating a good shelter in this weather isnt going to be a reality...so< i'd keep traveling home. Staying out in a marginal shelter with no fire is going to make something that wasnt necessarily a survival situation become one.. I say keep moving.

After walking for a few hours if you decide that you are lost, and want make it home, make an impromtu burrowed out snow hole somewhere to get out of the wind

In all honesty here, this just doesnt seem like a survival situation to me. I am not too far from my house in all reality. I truly believe stopping and building a shelter and spending the night out in these conditions is going to "create a survival situation" out of a predictment that at most was a "late for dinner" kind of situation.

I have honestly been in this situation probably a hundred times- and have never stopped and built a shelter. To me, being essentially in my own backyard- I woudn't be scared or lost.

Also, I question that "my eyelashes will be freezing shut" I am out running dogs at 10- 15mph all the time in these temps into headwinds, and i've never had my eyes freeze shut.

I would not be happy crossing the lake if the wind is kicking up and the temp is dropping. I might start to head back along my reverse bearing and depending on the weather and how late it is (do I have a light?) build a shelter, start a fire, have a cuppa, and hunker down for the night.

So, is it -40 C or F? .....just kidding. :smash:

I know what I wouldn't do.

I would try and not fall into any water.
I would try and not light a fire under branches with snow on them.
I would try and not freeze to death with my dog watching.
Got to love Jack London.

Well, I would be x-c skiing. So, I would have prepared track to go home. I would remove the middle layer of clothing, turn around and pick up pace. I'd be home in two hours. Three if the weather was really bad.

Goggles are important!.. A blizzard walk necessity in my opinion.. I always wear 'em when out in snow.. Windblown snow in your face is blinding regardless of temp. I'm disappointed in myself for not seeing what now seems like a glaringly obvious problem in the making.... Without goggles (which I don't go out in snow without!.. But I ll play along) I would probably hunker down regardless where I am... Guess I was kinda takin for granted that I ve been in that situation before... Didn't really even cross my mind the lack ofgoggles till u mentioned.... In the scenario u describe that is truly a big difference maker!

Good post!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NCO

Well, I would be x-c skiing. So, I would have prepared track to go home. I would remove the middle layer of clothing, turn around and pick up pace. I'd be home in two hours. Three if the weather was really bad.

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No you wouldn't. You don't have cross country skis with you. They're not on the list. That would have been the part where Trax said:

Quote:

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Please don't magically add in any equipment not listed.

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Crash.. He said u had either snowshoes or xc skis

Oooops - my bad. Must be snow blindness.

I wouldn't be sweatin or rushin WE. i walk slower going out than I do going back home. :)

That's a normal time frame for me. I usually make it back twice as fast because i'm done enjoying the scenery and wanting to get home by then.

For much of the winter I go out duck hunting almost every weekend. We are routinely hunting in temperatures of -25*C (-13*F). I have never worn goggles and neither my eyes nor my eyelashes have ever frozen up. (I'm not sure but, I imagine this may be because of the almost total lack of humidity in the air in my area.) I don't think I even own a pair of goggles. I would think they would be powerfully uncomfortable worn over my eyeglasses. (Yes, I know trax said "no goggles or glasses," but I can't see 3 feet in front of me without my eyeglasses so; there's absolutely no chance I would have gone out of my bedroom, let alone out into the woods without them.)

Aside from that one quibble, I think trax is on the right track (no pun intended) when he describes the disorientation that might occur. I don't think I would get scared in his scenario, nor would I trudge off in any particular hurry so; I certainly wouldn't be sweating. However, many people every year find themselves lost quite literally in their own back yards when the snow begins to fly. All of a sudden the landmarks one may have used and taken for granted for a lifetime are no longer visible and without a clear track to follow back, they find they have no idea which way to turn or where to go. Hunkering down into a shelter may just be the best option in such circumstances.

So, accepting the scenario's premise that I am truly lost (at least for the moment) and cannot readily just walk back out the way I came...

If I built a shelter first, I can then use it as a windbreak to make starting my fire a little easier. I have at least two hours of usable light to get the main portion of the shelter and a fires started, after which I can do detail work by the light of the fire if necessary. I can't see that as any problem, though I can't imagine why I would be carrying wood matches as I strongly prefer a bic lighter and a firesteel. So too, my flashlight is always on my belt so; I must be having some kind of breakdown to have left it behind.

The windbreaking and insulating properties of the shelter and the radiant heat of the fire coupled with my wool clothing, ensures I have plenty of insulation to get me through the night.

I have more than enough food and water to last for numerous days, let alone one night, so again, no worries. I would throw away the tea bags however, as I can't drink the stuff. Plain water will do for me.

The compass and thermometer are, at least for the moment, essentially useless. So too the whistle, unless I have some thought that there might be others hiking in the same area that I could contact, or if I were to hear or see some sign of a rescue party that might be sent out when I don't arrive home as scheduled.

All in all, the scenario presented is not much of a "survival" situation at all. The real survival situation will occur when I arrive home the next morning to an irate wife who would have spent the night up worrying. And truthfully, I don't know how I would get through that one...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lucznik

The real survival situation will occur when I arrive home the next morning to an irate wife who would have spent the night up worrying. And truthfully, I don't know how I would get through that one...

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Ain't that the truth.

Here is a question for you....how many of you have ever spent the night out in these conditions- with only the clothes on your back, in a shelter you built?

I have, more than once. And, believe me...walking home is a much more attractive option to me.

If your traveling through a cedar forest- most likely not all your tracks are covered. Maybe where your standing they are, but retreat back into the trees a little, and I'd almost guarnatee you you can find some hint of your tracks. Cedars can create quite a canopy, and shelter. Also, most likely once you get into the trees, and find a hint of your tracks, you'll be out of the wind to a good degree.

All my lifes experiece is telling me, that in this situation- stopping for the night is a mistake, keeping going back towards the house- for me, is the only option in this scenario

Jason - I have not. I have spent time in the mountains and snow, but not as you describe, and not for quite some time. When I looked at the scenario, I felt that I would not have been familiar with the area (I know it said you left home, etc,). I also figured that I had about an hour of light left. My thought process was - I'm in unfamiliar territory, the driving snow would be limiting my vision, the approaching nightfall would further restrict my vision. While it is much lighter in snow with any light from above, the conditions described would not have been sufficient for me to comfortably navigate my way back. While I was quite comfortable in cold and snowy conditions, it has been about twenty years since I have had the pleasure of prolonged stays in it. Maybe I could make it back, maybe I couldn't. Two things I know for sure - while I may be uncomfortable during the night, I know I can survive in the conditions described. The second thing I know for sure that for me, building a shelter with light still available is preferable. If I had the experience that you possess, I might view it differently.

Crash,
When, I said:

"All my lifes experiece is telling me, that in this situation- stopping for the night is a mistake, keeping going back towards the house- for me, is the only option in this scenario "

I defienlty didn't mean to imply, setting up a shelter wasn't a good choice for some in this situation....I meant...for me, it wasnt an option.

However, I will add, that alot of people don't have the skills to truly build a sufficient shelter for this situatation, and burning up daylight trying to light a fire and bulid a shelter just might jeopardize them more than heading home

I completely understood what you were saying. As I said, with your experience I may well have chosen a different option. My biggest concern for the option I chose is that since in this scenario I did leave an itinerary, I might trigger a SAR event. Wouldn't want that to happen unless it was needed.

That's why I mentioned what I did about starting the fire, too, Jason, it isn't going to be easy. I've spent the night out in those conditions too and I've seen times when a person could walk past a house within a hundred yards of it in those conditions and not see it.

Here's my thinking in setting up the scenario (and I have been in similar conditions where there's enough snow blowing that it will start to freeze your eyelashes. They don't freeze shut but the water in your eyes doesn't improve your vision any, but once again I digress):

Either option has advantages and potential disadvantages. I've noticed that the people opting for walking home are all pretty seasoned outdoorsmen with experience in those conditions. How about those with less experience? If you're thinking about it on here.....you've got a better idea of what you might be confronting out there.

Less experience? I'd still walk home. The only way I'd stay put is if I were much further away, truly lost and adept at building shelter and staying warm.

The worst weather I've ever been in was -60F with the wind chill. I had just got back from 1 month in Brazil doing service and repair work. I think that's the coldest it ever got here in MI. You could pee and it woud freeze solid before it hit the ground. I'm not exaggerating! I would not want to walk 1-3 hours with the wind in my face at those temps.

My only experience camping in the proposed temps and winds is in a 4 man dome tent on the lake ice thru one day, night and following morning. The day started sunny and mild. In the afternoon it became ever more windy, cold and snowy. The wind and such was so bad that taking down the tent would have been cold and difficult. It was easier to wait out the weather. I had ice fishing gear, propane lantern, Kars "sweet and salty trail mix" and a Mexican blanket. I was real comfy and turned the lantern off before I went to bed. I caught zero fish till the next morning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trax

I've noticed that the people opting for walking home are all pretty seasoned outdoorsmen with experience in those conditions.

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I'm not sure I would agree with that assessment. The "consensus" seems to be rather split to me. I think the difference has less to do with the experience of the individual and more to do with the way that each is picturing the scenario in their minds. Some of the variables that seem to be at play include the ways that we are each imagining such things as:

1. The degree of familiarity with the area in which we are taking our walk
2. The amount of snow, both on the ground and in the air
3. The level of visibility available
4. The amount of light left to work with
5. How much ambient light might be available once darkness sets in

That's the challenge with scenarios. No matter how much detail you provide, we all still imagine the scene differently. In the end, I don't think it matters much which way one suggests as far as the scenario is concerned. What's important is that it was thought about and considered. That way, should a similar yet actual circumstance ever present itself, a useful and logical solution will likely prove more forthcoming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lucznik

.... In the end, I don't think it matters much which way one suggests as far as the scenario is concerned. What's important is that it was thought about and considered. That way, should a similar yet actual circumstance ever present itself, a useful and logical solution will likely prove more forthcoming.

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Nicely stated and that's what I was aiming for. One variable that I don't think any of us discussed was how far might a person walk on snowshoes or skis in the time frame and conditions described> It might be a big influence on one's decision.

I would guess I would start heading back, north and west.
You noted the direction you started in, also noted a good compass, so I would reverse the direction.

Knowing you are dressed for the weather, or were to start with, and did carry provisions, it would/should be a no panic return trip.

You always have the option of stopping and building a wind break, and fire if necessary.
SAR operations might be called out if you didn't return, depending on if you make a habit of this, and who's waiting for you. (LOL, this has also be noted, as a legitimate concern)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jason_Montana

Here is a question for you....how many of you have ever spent the night out in these conditions- with only the clothes on your back, in a shelter you built?

I have, more than once. And, believe me...walking home is a much more attractive option to me.

If your traveling through a cedar forest- most likely not all your tracks are covered. Maybe where your standing they are, but retreat back into the trees a little, and I'd almost guarnatee you you can find some hint of your tracks. Cedars can create quite a canopy, and shelter. Also, most likely once you get into the trees, and find a hint of your tracks, you'll be out of the wind to a good degree.

All my lifes experiece is telling me, that in this situation- stopping for the night is a mistake, keeping going back towards the house- for me, is the only option in this scenario

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Dogman, That is how I would Play it also. I have siwashed, three times, and once near died. None of the three were fun, even though one was a planned siwash.

Well since I have been moving forward by dead reckoning I'll head back by dead reckoning the exact opposite way I have come. If the snow starts to come down too hard to make good headway I'd find a wind break of some kind, probably a big pine tree, clear any snow from under it and around it making a wall with it around the pine tree as close to the lowest branches as possible. Then in the immediate area I'd look for dead branches on the trees around and start gathering fire wood. In all this I'd be careful not to work up a sweat. I'd set up a reflector on the opposite side of the fire from the base of the pine tree. I'd unwrap my blanket/tarp/wool rug from the bottom of my pack. Set the tarp down in an L shape half on the ground covered with pine needles and half up the trunk of the tree just to hold it in place, then the rug on the tarp on the ground then sit on the carpet, wrap up in the blanket and drape the upper half of the tarp over to keep dry from anything that falls down from the pine branches. lean back against the trunk of the tree, make a cup of tea and then some soup or oatmeal. I'd have the fire wood stacked where I could reach it easily. I'd keep the fire small but constant. With the snow walls around me and the pine branches above me and the reflector on the other side of the fire and the trees trunk behind me I should be reasonably warm until morning. I'd keep my canteen cup with water in it off to the side of the fire but close enough to keep it hot but not boiling all night so another cup of tea or hot food could be made asap when needed.
As I have said I grew up in Michigan so it wouldn't be my first overnight alone in the Winter Woods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trax

Nicely stated and that's what I was aiming for. One variable that I don't think any of us discussed was how far might a person walk on snowshoes or skis in the time frame and conditions described> It might be a big influence on one's decision.

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I guess if you factor that in, I could just walk the 97 feet back to my house.

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