HELP w/Bugging In in NYC

Depending on what specific SHTF I'll most likely need
to stay put because I don't have a car & have nowhere to go really.
Fighting the crowds on foot on the way off the island
wouldn't be too wise--I've been around during 9/11 and that's
merely a taste of what could be in store if anything more serious
was to take place.
(The movie "I Am Legend" depicts the bugging out madness pretty well)

No matter how well prepared I am I'll need to band together with
like minded people if there's a prayer of survival and defending
against the criminal element.

I haven't seen any posts or even articles anywhere about
this particular predicament (staying put in a huge city)
beyond suggestions of getting out.

Any thoughts/suggestions from anyone? Seriously.

There are a multitude of threads on the questions you have raised. Use the "Search Function" -- make sure to put your search terms in quotes. And if you don't mind, how about telling us a bit about yourself? http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

BENESSE - there have been a few discussions on this. Basically preparing to shelter in place will involve having the supplies to do so and the means to keep it. Remy has done a bit on this, as he's in a large city as well. Do you have specific questions? What sort of scenario do you envision that would have all the folks around you in turmoil (the scenario in I Am Legend is not too likely to occur)?

You can certainly do a SWOT to determine your options. If you are not familiar with it, SWOT stands for Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. Sit down with paper and pencil and start writing them out. Think about it over the course of a couple of days. I assure you new items will pop into your mind. Try to envision all of the items. Friends, family, like minded folks, proximity to good/bad parts of the city, items in your house/apartment, etc. etc. Try to document as much as you can.

Once you have identified those four (4) elements you should begin to see a picture emerge that will help you determine where additional planning may be needed. You don't have to spend a lot of money to gain a lot of security. And you don't have to be drawn into web sites that offer you a complete package for a year either.

If you can answer Crash's questions then we can start to help you.

Welcome, by the way. An Introduction, as Ken suggested, will help us understand your skills, knowledge, etc.

remember the movie "The Birds" it'll probably be like that..... No serious! evacuating a city will be something I choose not to be even close to. Good luck with that one....

Bugging in is an excellent option as long as you have thought it through and understand your risks. If some cases, the risks can be quite small.

Hello.



Here is a book for you:
Ragnar's urban survival (by Ragnar Benson)
(a hard time guide to staying alive in the city)

I don't know how that sticky thing works, but this seems like a good subject for a sticky."BIG CITY SURVIVAL PERPS".

Well done Remy, You have sure put a massive amount of thought into this city survival preps. And your first-aid supplies are top shelf, well done.

No argument with that. Consider it stuck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

No argument with that. Consider it stuck.

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Can you find the thread where Remy, shows his supplies, and move it over here....???

Remy has removed the pics but I will post the link. There is still a lot of good info and Crash and some others posted some pics.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=preparations

Nice write up, Remy. We are seeing more and more greening of cities. Roof top gardens not only provide "soft" space and edible benefits, they also reduce the reflected radiation and reduce the "island effect" found in cities.

Your information pertains to urbanites as well. Knowing your surroundings, which buildings are potentially valuable and which to avoid, etc. is great info for us, as well.

Thanks Remy, I couldn't agree more on ALL points!
And thank you Rick.

I've lived in Manhattan for over 20 years but only since 9/11
have I really, seriously, started thinking & preparing for "what if".
I don't work or move in circles where that's broached much
beyond the basic Red Cross preparedness.
If anyone's concerned about it they're not bringing it up
over brunch.
Everyone I know has cars and places outside the city
and I'm sure that's where they plan to go if evacuation
becomes necessary.
So coming across people on the same wavelength when it comes to
TEOTWAWKI is tough.
And that's one of my disadvantages.
The other is getting proficient in firearms.
(Does anyone know about or has gone to the Front Sight FTI?)

Hopefully there's time to get there even though one can never
be truly prepared. We've seen enough of that here and all over
the world. And some have experienced it first hand.

It's a balancing act of PREPARING to survive and actually LIVING.
I hope for the wisdom to know the difference.

Hey Benesse,
Are you ever going to introduce yourself? It will be alot easier for us to help you out if we know a bit about you ie age, experience, where you live(appartment, condo home etc), what preperations you have already made. Even if you owned a firearm, NYC has one of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Sorry, where are my manners!

Here are few photos as promised.

-3 first aid kits.
a) Main first aid.
b) Rx water and light proof Hard box.
c) EDC first aid.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000092.jpg


-Here is the EDC first aid.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000093.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000094.jpg

-Rx box

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000095.jpg

-Main first aid

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000096.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000097.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000098.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000099.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000100.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000101.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000102.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000103.jpg



-EDC

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000104.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000105.jpg

Nice job Remy, I'll trade ya that first aid kit for...hmmm...I dunno...some French Marine MRE's?

Boy Remy, it doesn't get any clearer than that!
Thank you.
I have 80% of the stuff but not as well organized.
(What does EDC stand for)

I started collecting 7 years ago and it's still evolving.
As am I.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000108.jpg


http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000110.jpg


http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000111.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000112.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000113.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000114.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000115.jpg

Thanks Remy!

I've been wondering whether it's safe to cook indoors
(if gas & electricity are out) without any ventilation--
in case you have to seal the windows etc.
What about stocking RMEs for 6 months?
Or a boatload of hi cal. Datrex bars?

Benesse - You have some preparations already although you may not know you have them. If you live in an apartment, you probably have a 40 gallon hot water heater. If in a home, perhaps a 50 gallon water heater. That's also a fresh water storage tank. Learn where your water shut off is so you can turn the water off to your dwelling if you have to. That way you can ensure your water supply is not contaminated. You will also need to turn the power off to your hot water heater. So you need to know how to do that.

Your hot water heater should have a drain plug on the bottom of it. You can use it to extract the water just like an outside faucet.

The tanks on the back of your toilet can also serve as a water supply assuming you don't put those water treatment thingies in it. It's fresh water coming in.

The rule for bathroom usage is:

If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.

Kinda grose but gets the point across.

If you look around your home I'll bet you can find all kinds of things you can use if something bad happened.

Have a yardstick? You have a splint. Think multi-use.

I totally agree about water.
That part is and has always been non-negotiable for us.
I haven't brought it up because I assumed everyone else felt the same way.
When it comes to food I can exist and function quite well on what most
would consider third world survival.

My biggest concern is unrest and violence.
If you take that away everything else becomes a bit easier to tackle.
Barring of course the obvious. (nuclear, germ, chemical)

i think in a big city you should look down as a means to get out.. :)

By the way, Remy. Nice post on the pics!

Graffixx808, it really depends on the circumstances.
In my case it would be the last resort when staying in would without a doubt guarantee
misery & death.
I intend to be prepared for either contingency to the best of my ability but some of the more extreme measures as described in the book "Patriot" (which I loved and learned a lot from) are just not realistic for me. My path would have to be different and hopefully just as successful.

I'm guessing that storage space is at a premium for you. Have you considered purchasing a few collapsable water storage bags, which could be filled quickly and otherwise kept collapsed and stored out of sight? Just consider the load bearing capacity of your floors if you choose this option for water storage. Here's one of several sites that offer similar products:

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbags.html

Ken, this is a grand idea!
Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

Ken, this is a grand idea!
Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?

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If your unopened water containers are stored in a cool, dry place they will last for a long time. I rotate my water supply periodically out of an abundance of caution. Ken had a good idea. If you have time, you can fill the stored containers. Of course, having advanced notice is the key. Here's a picture of another type of collapsible container (5 gallon) that is readily available in a variety of stores.

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/p...arrier_350.jpg

You can also keep purification equipment on hand. That could range from bleach to purification tablets, to purification straws or backpacker filters. Lot's of options in this category. It will allow you to convert questionable water into drinking water. None of them will remove heavy metals or salt water but you could use fountains, ponds, bird baths or swimming pools as a fresh water source.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000117.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000116.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000118.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000119.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000120.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000121.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000122.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/P1000123.jpg

Benesse,
Also check out the Camelbak squad pack, it holds 26 liters of water and is designed to be carried as a backpack. If you have to travel to get water or if you have to bug out with as much water as you can carry this is a plus. Camelbak also offers a wide range of hydration backpacks from which you can build your BOB.

Huge help everyone!!! LOVE the pics.
Can't thank you enough.
I'll be ordering and testing some options soon.
In a way it's a good thing that we're surrounded
by water. (as long as we don't have to cross it)

P.S. I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.

Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benesse

I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.

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That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trax

Nice job Remy, I'll trade ya that first aid kit for...hmmm...I dunno...some French Marine MRE's?

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Are those the ones with the wine ration in them???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.

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That's definitely on my "to do" list--broaching the subject with the Super & the Bldg. Board. Figuring out exactly how as to not scare them into denial is a job in itself.

I am involved in a neighborhood organization and brought up once the idea of shelters
(do we have them, where are they, are the neighbors aware, etc...) and neighborhood preparedness in case of apt. evacuation. They had Red Cross give a talk at a poorly attended meeting, but the idea of community shelters (not the old govt. fallout shelters) was not broached.
The mindset in NYC is just not the same as say in Utah, and in this case, I wish it was.
We need it more than most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SARKY

Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.

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I'm on the Upper East.
There are several options of getting out but my problem is that I haven't
figured out my ultimate destination.
Without an end game plan, the idea of just wandering around aimlessly
seems more dangerous (for me personally) than staying put.
My wilderness survival skills are extremely limited and haven't been put to the test.
Urban survival skills have, to some extent.
So at the moment, I have to be intellectually honest about my ability to handle different scenarios. The plans will evolve as my skills do.

BENESSE - I was going to suggest that you form some sort of neighborhood watch or coalition in your building. It sounds as though you may have done something like that already. In the event of an emergency, knowing your neighbors and having worked on preparedness plans together will make sheltering in place so much easier than trying to go it alone. Additionally, if it comes to a situation where you must leave, doing so in a small group may give you the added security and resources that might be difficult on your own.

Is anyone familiar with or has actually tried Survival Tabs?
http://www.campingsurvival.com/surtabnewcon.html

Their nutritional content and a shelf life of 10+ years
make them a potentially decent addition to MREs, etc.

Is there anything to it or is it just another gimmick?
You guys have been around the block in these matters
a lot longer than I so I trust your opinion.