Oxygen tanks in vehicle first aid kit

At work we are looking to add a oxygen tank to our responder bag in our security vehicle. Traditionally we have not had one stored inside the vehicle, pulling it instead from the nearest building as needed.

Obviously we want to increase our response time in providing first aid, but are wary of any danger's of storing a 02 tank inside a vehicle.

The vehicle is not garaged, so will be subject to temperature extreme's. This is our primary concern. Any thoughts on this please?

(Any other thoughts on the subject are welcome)

Talk to your supplier. I'm sure they can give you all the info you need. It's carried in ambulances so I'd think it would be okay. But I'd touch base with your supplier just to be certain.

My brother in law carries them around all the time and has never had a problem. i have one in my BLS bag but it doesn't stay in my truck .

BK.... as a EMT/P I carry a "jump kit" in my vehicle all the time, I carry O2 among other things including a cardio defib unit. The thing you need to remember is that you don't want to expose your tanks to long term high temps. Not so much as an explosion danger but it is not good for the O2. I have been told that extreme temp changes can cause the O2 to go "stale" quicker therefore loosing it's effectiveness. So you may consider putting it in a gear bag and taking it inside between "shifts" to help keep it from temp changes.

I spent 8 years working for medical oxygen companies and one thing that was drilled into our heads was to Never, never carry O2 in any type of bag. There is a very real danger of O2 saturating the bag and becoming a fire hazard. Only carry the O2 in a well ventilated manner and I wouldn't worry about the O2 losing its effectiveness or going stale as the shelf life of tank O2 is five years.
Also remember to keep O2 away from any type of Petroleum based produsts such as Oil, Grease, Vasoline, Mentholateum etc... Spontaneous combustion is a very real danger.

I would think a tank sitting in a hot car would be pretty tough sucking on. I mean if the O2 inside the tank is sitting at 110F, let's say, wouldn't that be the temp of the O2 the patient is sucking in? I suppose there would be some cooling during conversion back to a gas but still.

Actually, with the pressure change (high to low) there is a significant amount of cooling. Just like with a scuba tank or an air bottle on a scba, if the gas (air) release is allowed to flow unrestricted you will get an ice build up. You won't get ice with the slower release into a regularor, but it will still cool. Going from low pressure to high pressure will generate heat.

Ive never heard that about storing a O bottle in a bag, when I was in SAR the O2 kit I bought came in a cordura bag It came from FERNO that way. I was told never to put any type of oil in the gauges or to let the gauge or regulator get damaged due to possible damage or breech.

The hazard associated with oil or any petroleum product and the oxygen bottles (or high pressure air) isn't the proximity between the two, but rather if the petroleum product is introduced "inside" the components of the bottled system. The results could be explosive.

Welderguy.... I have always carried my O2 in a bag. I bought my set-up in a carry bag. It is made for the tank, has a storage area for tubing.masks,etc. The "neck" of the tank is exposed for easy hook-up never had any problems but what rat says makes sense if the valve wasn't tightened or sprang a leak, that could be a problem.

Didn't we have the oil in a regulator talk in a welding /cutting torch thread

I don't remember that one, dad, but we're all ears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welderguy

Didn't we have the oil in a regulator talk in a welding /cutting torch thread

---

Don't know about that one, but I remember somebody cautioning others to not use petroleum jelly on an oxygen mask. (and IMO an inaccurate warning)

oldsolider,
Sounds like our bags are similar, Except mine is fully enclosed however there are vents in the sides front and back. maybe thats why. I also have space for a infant, adolescent and adult ambu-bag

Can you just buy O2 and add it to your kit? No Rx or anything? Seems like when dad was getting cancer treatments he couldn't get O2 until his sats dropped below a certain level. 96 maybe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Don't know about that one, but I remember somebody cautioning others to not use petroleum jelly on an oxygen mask. (and IMO an inaccurate warning)

---

Thats right , sorry was thinking something else. :blushing:

Rick - not sure if you need an Rx to buy bottled O2 or not. I read a while back where "canned" oxygen was becoming all the rage in some areas. If I remember correctly it looked like spray paint or hair spray cans with compressed O2. (don't get them mixed up)

I don't know I bought mine thru my Dept. but i can get it refiled at any home health store with no problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

Can you just buy O2 and add it to your kit? No Rx or anything? Seems like when dad was getting cancer treatments he couldn't get O2 until his sats dropped below a certain level. 96 maybe?

---

I called my Brother in law, he said to his knowledge no RX is needed. so he called the medical director and he said A doctor does have to give a referal.

That's what I thought. It's been a few years but it seems like dad's O2 hovered just above the magic number for several weeks. If it was 96 then he as like 96.5 or something like that. He had to hit that particular number before the doctor would order the O2 and we couldn't just pick it up. Again, it's been a while but I think the doctor wrote out an RX for it.

Thanks for checking on it.

I have personally witnessed an experiment where 99.9% pure Oxygen was blown directly upon a small amount of grease at a rate of 2 lpm. Within a few minutes there was signs of smoke and spontaneous combustion follwed within 5 minutes. I have had oxygen patients who complained of having bad nose bleeds continiously after being set up on home oxygen...further investigation found them using Vicks Vapor Rub and mentholateum inside their nose trying to open the sinuses. The symptoms cleared up within days once they switched to a water based formula. Oxygen and petroleum based products do not mix and can spontaneously combust....

Read the information at this link please.

http://www.oxygengasplant.net/safety.htm

Another link to MSDS Sheet...check out page 7....
http://www.madamedical.com/pdf/MSDS_Oxygen.pdf

Interesting the things you can learn. According to a site I was just reading, USP o2 is considered a regulated drug. Aviators breathing oxygen (also referred to as ABO, apparently) is not regulated. ABO is supposed to be purer and contain less moisture.

Rick check out the web site www.allthingsfirstaid.com they carry all the stuff you need to set up an O2 kit including the tank. I get my tank refilled every 6 months if I don't use it sooner. My local medical supply Co. does it I've never needed an Rx to do it. YET!!

It depends alot on what insurance the patient has...for instance an overnight Pulse Oximetry is given to determine if the patient is falling below a certain level during the nights sleep. If the O2 level drops below 89% even for five seconds Medicare, Medicaid and most Private Insurances will pay for O2. If they fall below 95% for a minimum of 30 minutes total for a 8 hour sleep cycle then they qualify under most plans as well.

Then we do what is called a walking pulse ox or Sats with Ambulation...Pulse Ox probe goes on the finger and we walk them around the house for a couple of minutes to see if they drop with the strain of everyday activity...This is how we would qualify someone for portable O2. And yes you are correct...Medical Grade Oxygen aka USP grade..requires a prescription from a Doctor as it is considered a controlled substance.

Too much O2 will knock out your Hypoxic drive (aka you ability to breath on your own) just like someone who has been on a Ventilator for to long.
The build up of Co2 in the lungs is what triggers the body to take a breath and too much O2 blows this Co2 off and causes the bodies breathing response to deteriate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

That's what I thought. It's been a few years but it seems like dad's O2 hovered just above the magic number for several weeks. If it was 96 then he as like 96.5 or something like that. He had to hit that particular number before the doctor would order the O2 and we couldn't just pick it up. Again, it's been a while but I think the doctor wrote out an RX for it.

Thanks for checking on it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crashdive123

Rick - not sure if you need an Rx to buy bottled O2 or not. I read a while back where "canned" oxygen was becoming all the rage in some areas. If I remember correctly it looked like spray paint or hair spray cans with compressed O2. (don't get them mixed up)

---

You can buy this over the counter because the actual O2 % is so low that it isn't regulated as a Medical Gas...And if memory serves me correctly O2 can be purchased without a Prescription for Emergency responders who have taken the proper First Aid courses for administering it properly.

I used to transfill both Liquid O2 and gas as well for Local Firemen in one of the smaller towns I worked in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

Interesting the things you can learn. According to a site I was just reading, USP o2 is considered a regulated drug. Aviators breathing oxygen (also referred to as ABO, apparently) is not regulated. ABO is supposed to be purer and contain less moisture.

---

ABO Oxygen is not regulated because it is not produced and stored for consumption at a later time. An O2 Generator or Concetrator seperates the Oxygen from the other gases in normal atmosphere air. And directs it to a mask or Nasal Cannula for the pilot.
Purity is 93% Minimum at 5lpm on most all O2 Concentrators.

Thus ends my rants....I just saw some wrong information that I could help with and didn't want to see anyone getting hurt. I had a Oxygen patient who died while smoking in bed wearing his Oxygen while under the care of Home Health Nurse from a Major Hospital in this area.

I don't consider them rants. I actually considered them well thought out posts and great information. You did pretty good for a one-eyed, bone head (avatar).

Well I can't argue that this is an appropriate description of me as expressed by my wife on many occasions over the last 25 years...:)

I wish mine were that polite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK-72

At work we are looking to add a oxygen tank to our responder bag in our security vehicle. Traditionally we have not had one stored inside the vehicle, pulling it instead from the nearest building as needed.

Obviously we want to increase our response time in providing first aid, but are wary of any danger's of storing a 02 tank inside a vehicle.

The vehicle is not garaged, so will be subject to temperature extreme's. This is our primary concern. Any thoughts on this please?

(Any other thoughts on the subject are welcome)

---

I've carried one in the back of my ranger SUV and never had a problem. The jump bag that it's in is heavy (too heavy really) so it doesnt slide around. I keep the valve on the cylinder too, and that's never been problematic. On that same token, I've never had problems with the AED batteries due to temperature extremes either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkansas_Ranger

I've carried one in the back of my ranger SUV and never had a problem. The jump bag that it's in is heavy (too heavy really) so it doesnt slide around. I keep the valve on the cylinder too, and that's never been problematic. On that same token, I've never had problems with the AED batteries due to temperature extremes either.

---

Awesome.


Thanks all - been a lot of good information here and appreciate everyone's replies.

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