carrying a firearm illegaly in a state park

how do you guys feel about carrying a concealed weapon in a state park? say in a more desolate area where you may encounter some knucklehead(s).

if a situation arises that you need to brandish your weapon or even use it, it may be worth it to have to deal with breaking the law, later.

i'm thinking that if you have no criminal record and it's a first time offense, you should get probation..... although you'll still have a possible felony on your record and never be allowed to own firearms again....but alive.

especially if you're a woman. because in the woods, most people will already have at least a knife. and a woman will usually lose in a knife fight. here's 2 female hikers who had their throats slit.

http://www.readthehook.com/stories/2...Questions.html

My Buddy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../Berts002e.jpg

when i lived in arizona i carried my colt 45 in a quick draw holster every where i went. the tourists at the grand canyon used to get a kick out of it me dresses up like clint eastwood with my two australian sheppards an old 69 f-100 pick up and my horse tex i can't tell you how many photo albums that i am probably in out in europe and japan, these ppl couldn't speak a lick of english all they would say is cowboy cowboy or yeehaw to get my attention then show me the camera goota say i liked the fun of it all and help fullfill there idea of the west cause there ain't to many cowpokes left out there.

but yes i carried everywhere i went cept for banks bars and hospitals.

I made a shoulder holster for my little hogleg thar. Nice and comfy, not much on the hip style holsters, crossdraw is okay as I kind of feel off balance. Unless I'm carrying my bowie.

Little on that hogleg thar.

It's made by Cetennial, back in the early 60's. The origial owner of the company worked with Samuel Colt back in the 1800's and had an agreement to produce Colt firearms out of Belgium.

Fast forward to 1950, great grandsons decide to open the company again. They start producing guns to the exact spec's of Colt as they had an 100 year old contract.

Company went defunked in the 70's.

So I put up for trade a Great Plains 54 cal. single shot pistol, this guy emails me a pic of three bp revolvers. You know me, I chose the oldest and ugly one. We make the trade. A week later I find out that the gun is a collectors item, worth about 3x more than the gun I traded him.

I let him know, he does not care. He got the gun years ago from a friend who's grandpappy gave it to him. The guy I got it from had to soak it in kerosene for a week before he could clean it up.

Gun is tight, timed, and shoots better than my Remmy in 45 that has a pricetag of 600 bucks on it.

It's a keeper.

The gun laws are so restrictive that it's almost impossible to carry a firearm legally. So, um...nooooo..... I would never carry an illegal firearm, not a chance....UH-UH...not me...certainly not a handgun or anything that's concealed carry....not this guy, nope...don't ever ask again...:eek: :D

lol, yeah that's what i'm thinking.

has anyone ever had to draw their weapon in a crisis ....and then had to explain it to the park ranger afterwards?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

how do you guys feel about carrying a concealed weapon in a state park? say in a more desolate area where you may encounter some knucklehead(s).

if a situation arises that you need to brandish your weapon or even use it, it may be worth it to have to deal with breaking the law, later.

l[/url]

---

First, understand that if you ever have to draw your weapon you need to be ready to use it. NEVER draw a firearm unless you are willing to use it and have a legal right to use it. Brandishing will definitely get you arrested and charged in the best case, in the worst case, you will get the gun taken away from you by the bad guy.

Second, get good training on how/when you can legally use it and understand that if you actually have to shoot someone, that you life will most likely be hell on earth for the near future including arrest, loss of friends, possible loss of job possible loss of marriage etc.

As one of my instructors said in class, even the death of a scumbag is treated as the death of a citizen and you will be run through the system, including arrest, prosecution and possibly jail time and civil court even if you were right.

The ONLY upside of using a firearm is that you will be alive. Which is the whole idea, but understand the HUGE downside also and factor that into your decision.

Sorry for being such a downer, but contemplating the use of lethal force is about as serious as you can get. Too many people get into it WAY too lightly. If you are carrying, legal or illegal, you need to decide ahead of time what you are willing to take a life over.

Here in WV if you have a CCW permit you are legal for most activities as long as you keep it conceled. Many states require restrictions to be posted and be very specific about firearm and carry method.There are plenty of instances where someone has defended their selfs legally and resumed their lifes in a normal manner.
I carry legally and make sure that any restrictions are legal as well. I don't shop where they restrict legal carry and don't even drive in Ilinos because of the evil restrictions there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glocker36

First, understand that if you ever have to draw your weapon you need to be ready to use it. NEVER draw a firearm unless you are willing to use it and have a legal right to use it. Brandishing will definitely get you arrested and charged in the best case, in the worst case, you will get the gun taken away from you by the bad guy.

Second, get good training on how/when you can legally use it and understand that if you actually have to shoot someone, that you life will most likely be hell on earth for the near future including arrest, loss of friends, possible loss of job possible loss of marriage etc.

As one of my instructors said in class, even the death of a scumbag is treated as the death of a citizen and you will be run through the system, including arrest, prosecution and possibly jail time and civil court even if you were right.

The ONLY upside of using a firearm is that you will be alive. Which is the whole idea, but understand the HUGE downside also and factor that into your decision.

Sorry for being such a downer, but contemplating the use of lethal force is about as serious as you can get. Too many people get into it WAY too lightly. If you are carrying, legal or illegal, you need to decide ahead of time what you are willing to take a life over.

---

This is among the best advice I've seen on the use of firearms. And I would reiterate, whoever you are, whatever firearms your using, learn safety first and then practice, practice, practice. Get the notion in your head and keep it there that the only reason for pointing a firearm at a living thing is to make it into a dead thing, hence, re-read what glocker wrote. I don't think glocker is being a "downer" at all. This is just common sense advice. If anyone is in a situation where he/she has to use a firearm against another human being, it's going to be a split second decision, so be prepared and practice, practice, practice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glocker36

First, understand that if you ever have to draw your weapon you need to be ready to use it. NEVER draw a firearm unless you are willing to use it and have a legal right to use it.

---

i only disagree with this part. the rest of what you said about the chances of life being miserable after you've shot someone, i totally agree. i know they teach it in gun courses that you should never draw unless you're ready to use it. but this is very ambiguous. there's really no exact training to "be ready to use it". lots of factors such as individual instinct, mindset to kill someone, past experience(s), etc. having your finger on the trigger and it pointing is "being ready".

there are gangbangers with little or zero training, but are ready to pull the trigger when they draw. while there are cops with plenty of training but they hesitate to shoot and they themselves, get shot and killed. also, cops draws their weapons more often w/o shooting....and using the sight of the gun as a warning/deterrent. drawing a gun on someone is just one step in assessing the situation further. what happens after that, happens.

Quote:

---

Brandishing will definitely get you arrested and charged in the best case, in the worst case, you will get the gun taken away from you by the bad guy.

---

yea, the premise of my question is in a state park, so it's definitely illegal to carry concealed there. and if i'm ever in a situation that warrants my pulling out my weapon...then it must be a dire situation already.....what's the difference with risking him getting my gun now (that i just drew) vs. getting it after he stabs or beats me because i didn't draw my gun and try to get the advantage?

While in a gunshop once, I noticed a local police officer. We started talking and he asked me if I had a ccp, I told him I did but I do not carry a sidearm. He asked me why, and I told him that if I was in an area that I needed one, I should not be there.

I do carry a sidearm in the woods, not in public. Reason, I'm permitted to but I don't feel that I have the training to do so. If I really wanted to carry in public then I would attend one of many handgun carrying class'', practice alot more than I do and then, maybe, I would feel comfy carrying one in public.

Best defense is your brain. I work in some real bad areas but I always keep my witts about me. I notice everything and always have a smile and good greating. I treat all with respect and have never felt threatened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

i only disagree with this part. the rest of what you said about the chances of life being miserable after you've shot someone, i totally agree. i know they teach it in gun courses that you should never draw unless you're ready to use it. but this is very ambiguous. there's really no exact training to "be ready to use it". lots of factors such as individual instinct, mindset to kill someone, past experience(s), etc. having your finger on the trigger and it pointing is "being ready".

---

My primary point was that some people believe that the simple act of drawing a firearm and showing it to someone will be enough to scare them away. Perhaps, perhaps not and if you are not mentally committed to ending the treat, ie. shooting till the threat is no longer a threat, you may only be making the situation worse.

Remember, you never shoot to kill anyone, you shoot to stop them, wheather or not they die is a byproduct of THEIR actions. You do not fire warning shots, you do not shoot to wound, you shoot to STOP them from hurting or killing you or others.

As far as classes on firearms, the best on that I have ever attened was the Judicious Use of Deadly force held by Massad Ayoob, it was 2 long days covering all aspects of using deadly force and the aftermath.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glocker36

My primary point was that some people believe that the simple act of drawing a firearm and showing it to someone will be enough to scare them away. Perhaps, perhaps not and if you are not mentally committed to ending the treat, ie. shooting till the threat is no longer a threat, you may only be making the situation worse.

---

yes, and it's what's usually taught in a gun course. but my point is that you really can't train nor mentally prepare for anything like this. it's different for every occurrence. and even with having the experience of drawing or even shooting someone, the next one is still not going to go down the same way.

my argument is that you cannot say that you're ready when it hasn't happened yet. i practice at the range and have drawn my weapon twice and have had one incident where 3 cops drew and pointed theirs at my head (when i was young and stupid). all 3 incidents, no shots were fired. so my frame of mind based on my personal experience and training is that there's a greater chance of not needing to fire and defusing the situation by just brandishing the weapon (again, cops do this more often w/o shooting anyone). i'm not guaranteed this nor can i say that i am ready to shoot anyone.

Quote:

---

Remember, you never shoot to kill anyone, you shoot to stop them, wheather or not they die is a byproduct of THEIR actions. You do not fire warning shots, you do not shoot to wound, you shoot to STOP them from hurting or killing you or others.

---

well IMO, that would all depends. like how far they are from me and are they armed or not? if he's far enough, unarmed and won't back down from my pointing a gun at him, i will fire a warning shot.

With a split second to think all those things over, your heart pounding, your mouth and throat going dry, maybe in a badly lit area, your head pounding from the adrenaline rush....a) should have been like FVR said and not been there to begin with ...b) better be trained and have practiced, practiced, practiced.

Maybe that warning shot is enough time for the other person to pull out a firearm that you weren't aware of, think he's firing a warning shot back? He thinks you just shot at him.

Saiga...re-read what glocker said, do you really disagree with being ready to use it? If you're not prepared, don't carry one, check the stats on how many gun related deaths are accidental ...self-inflicted or a family member.

Consider this, if someone is trying to assault/rob you and you pull a gun and aren't ready to squeeze the trigger....you just gave a previously unarmed criminal a gun, because he's going to take it from you (and it's going to hurt) that's what he does for a living.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

yes, and it's what's usually taught in a gun course. but my point is that you really can't train nor mentally prepare for anything like this. it's different for every occurrence. and even with having the experience of drawing or even shooting someone, the next one is still not going to go down the same way.

my argument is that you cannot say that you're ready when it hasn't happened yet. i practice at the range and have drawn my weapon twice and have had one incident where 3 cops drew and pointed theirs at my head (when i was young and stupid). all 3 incidents, no shots were fired. so my frame of mind based on my personal experience and training is that there's a greater chance of not needing to fire and defusing the situation by just brandishing the weapon (again, cops do this more often w/o shooting anyone). i'm not guaranteed this nor can i say that i am ready to shoot anyone.



well IMO, that would all depends. like how far they are from me and are they armed or not? if he's far enough, unarmed and won't back down from my pointing a gun at him, i will fire a warning shot.

---

Weather Cops choose to fire their guns or not, that's a different ball game than if we do it. Cops are allowed to draw their firearms as well as to shoot. However if they are wrong, their head's on the chopping block. If a cop points a gun at you you're probably gonna do what he/she says. If it's an ordinary person you might be inclined to pull yours and shoot back. The code of the streets is "Don't pull it if your not going to use it." If the situation ever came up where I thought drawing my gun was required then I have to be ready to empty it towards said person as well. Once you've allowed your gun to be seen then the situation escalates!:eek:

OK, take back everything I just said, for some reason I didn't get your last post until I posted my last post. I think you're one lucky person based on what you just posted mind you.

If you're ever confused about breaking the law in a survival/backcountry experience, always follow this rule:

It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trax

With a split second to think all those things over, your heart pounding, your mouth and throat going dry, maybe in a badly lit area, your head pounding from the adrenaline rush....a) should have been like FVR said and not been there to begin with ...

---

at that time, i owned a business and had to go to the bank to deposit about $2-5 thousand dollars in cash daily. and i tried to switch up the time that i would go so not to develop a pattern that someone can pick up on. the second time was when someone tried to break into my car.....mind you, i had 2 highly modified cars stolen w/i a period of 1.5 months before that. i was ****ing pissed. but still did not shoot anyone when i came out with my pistol the 3rd time. they ran away.

Quote:

---

Maybe that warning shot is enough time for the other person to pull out a firearm that you weren't aware of, think he's firing a warning shot back? He thinks you just shot at him.

---

well in this scenario that i posed, i was giving him chances before i did shoot at him. way before this warning shot, i would be screaming, cussing, and warning him plenty.

Quote:

---

Saiga...re-read what glocker said, do you really disagree with being ready to use it?

---

sorry, but there's really no preparation other than joining the police academy or the military ....where you'll have access to multi-million dollar combat simulations, etc. otherwise, the rest of us are just shooting paper targets, taking a few classes and reading some books. i can shoot fairly well, practice drawing, hipshots, etc.... but this 'prepared to use it' line of thinking is too cliche'-ish for me.

Quote:

---

If you're not prepared, don't carry one, check the stats on how many gun related deaths are accidental ...self-inflicted or a family member.

---

wait, this makes no sense. i have locks. i know how my guns operates. how is my saying that i wouldn't know if i'm ready to shoot someone makes me more susceptible to self-inflicted injuries or harming a family member? and i've already been in two situation where i didn't have to shoot anyone, thus experience.

Quote:

---

Consider this, if someone is trying to assault/rob you and you pull a gun and aren't ready to squeeze the trigger....you just gave a previously unarmed criminal a gun, because he's going to take it from you (and it's going to hurt) that's what he does for a living.

---

my finger on the trigger = i'm prepared. my argument is that most people cannot say that they are guaranteed to be ready to shoot someone. every situation is different. thus my example of cops getting shot and killed because they hesitated. does this mean that they weren't prepared to shoot, thus giving the badguy the first shot that killed them?

not all criminals are robbers. and not all of them are guaranteed to be doing this for a living? why would you think this? also i'm trained in MA for quite some time now. that ought to be good for something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Weather Cops choose to fire their guns or not, that's a different ball game than if we do it. Cops are allowed to draw their firearms as well as to shoot. However if they are wrong, their head's on the chopping block. If a cop points a gun at you you're probably gonna do what he/she says. If it's an ordinary person you might be inclined to pull yours and shoot back. The code of the streets is "Don't pull it if your not going to use it." If the situation ever came up where I thought drawing my gun was required then I have to be ready to empty it towards said person as well. Once you've allowed your gun to be seen then the situation escalates!:eek:

---

it's still not guaranteed that the situation will escalate for a non-LEO. but that's a good point about a cop and his badge having a different affect.

while if i were in a situation where i sensed that i was in danger.... i'd rather take the chance of being disarmed .....than being beaten or stabbed to the point where it's too late to draw my weapon.

again, i question that there's some kind of formula or training that would prepare anyone for this "don't pull if if you're not going to use it" mantra.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trax

OK, take back everything I just said, for some reason I didn't get your last post until I posted my last post. I think you're one lucky person based on what you just posted mind you.

---

well i'm lucky that i didn't get trigger happy and took the chance that the sight of a gun would defuse the situation. come to think of it, one other instance where a homeowner came at me and my friends (again, young and stupid) with a big freaking handcanon and we ran like hell. he never fired a shot.

the next day, he came to where we were hanging out and showed us his gun and said next time he'll shoot....just trying to scare us. we could have jumped him but obviously none of us wanted to be the first guy to distract him and get shot. was he prepared to shoot us? nobody knows, including him...especially when no shots were fired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

well IMO, that would all depends. like how far they are from me and are they armed or not? if he's far enough, unarmed and won't back down from my pointing a gun at him, i will fire a warning shot.

---

You only shoot if you have the legal right to shoot.

When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present

If you have time to think about firing a warning shot, you do not feel that way. At least that is the way that a jury will see it.

Also, remember, because of the adenaline running through your system, your fine motor skills are going to be shot, and if you accidentally shoot someone else with that warning shot, they have a term for it.....Manslaughter

I carry a gun for personal protection,I am 5'1" 105 lbs and had someone try to break in my house when my children was small ,my youngest was 3 months old at the time.This person knew that 1.my husband waas not home,2.I was in bed,3 I was undressed at the time,I am not saying this to be funny I was scared to death at the time,and I did not own a gun so when I heard them trying to enter through the front door,I had just layed down,I was pi**ed at my husband for not being home when he said he would,and was not going to sleep anytime soon,the only thing I could do at the time was go into the kitchen and grab a knife out of the drawer,which happened to be right next to the door the person was trying to enter,by the time my husband came home,I was furious,I was scared and I was on the phone to 911 ,cops were there a short time later but husband walked in thinking I was pulling some sort of joke until he got a good look at his wife sitting on the couch naked ,holding a butcher knife, crying ,on the phone with the police,made him think again about leaving me and the kids home alone after dark with nothing but a knife to protect myself and the kids with.
The cops suggested the hand gun,and trained me how and when to use it,even though I had shot guns all my life growing up.

I would use it in a heartbeat no matter where I am to protect me or my family.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nell67

I would use it in a heartbeat no matter where I am to protect me or my family.

---

and there's the bottom line, good for you Nell. We're pals, right?

So we have a machete packing owl_girl and a pistol packin' Momma :)

yup trax we're pals LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glocker36

You only shoot if you have the legal right to shoot.

When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present

---

well the premise of my question is already in a place where it's illegal to carry a concealed firearm, therefore cannot be legal at all.

Quote:

---

When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present

If you have time to think about firing a warning shot, you do not feel that way. At least that is the way that a jury will see it.

---

there's no formula for how the jury would feel. you can't predict the jury, their race, background, creed, political persuasion, etc... all of the above applies to the level of competency of the State's attorney prosecuting the case also. then there's the level of competency of my attorney(s).....especially during jury selection. if i'm rich w/o priors and this is a pro-gun state....i'd have an enormously better chance.

and back to the scenario, if i fire a warning shot and he keeps advancing ....while i have no escape (ie. trapped in an alley w/a deadend.....i don't see why it wouldn't help prove my case that i'd actually gave him the chance of the warning shot(s).

Quote:

---

Also, remember, because of the adenaline running through your system, your fine motor skills are going to be shot, and if you accidentally shoot someone else with that warning shot, they have a term for it.....Manslaughter

---

well sure, that's a given. .

maybe i'm reading too much into this common gun class phrase of "don't pull it if you're not prepared to use it".

to me, being prepared....is having my finger on the trigger. next step is to point it and try to talk down the situation and avoiding shooting anyone. i consider the sight of a gun a huge deterrent factor (based on personal experience). i may die one day because of thinking this way, but that's the choice i chose to take.

here's another slight incident that i recalled. i was trying to sell a modified Mustang 5.0 they are highly sought after by thieves due to the aftermarket parts on modified ones being easily sold. 2 guys came to my house. i didn't see any car. they either were dropped off or took the bus. this is highly unusual.

there were incidents where the interested buyer didn't have a car and asked me to meet them at a metro station. this made sense and i didn't mind going there. but these 2 came to my house. and it was a very warm day to be walking. my gut instinct tells me something's wrong with this picture. so they asked for a test drive. i said ok and took off my jacket and walked towards my house (saying i needed to get my license) ......this revealed that i had pistol in my back holster. it was stainless steel so very visable. when i came out, they said that they've decided that the test drive was unnecessary because the price is out of their range and they had to leave.

mind you, i was in a business suit (back from work) and clean cut. and this was right in front of my house in a good neighborhood. now i only meet people at malls and such to show my cars for sale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

mind you, i was in a business suit (back from work) and clean cut. and this was right in front of my house in a good neighborhood. now i only meet people at malls and such to show my cars for sale.

---

LMAO, so people? Only poorly dressed, shabby looking guys in bad neighborhoods shoot people? Not trying to pick on you saiga and I know what you meant is what just the wording when I read it I guess.

maybe they had cash on them to buy the car and were afraid that i was going to jack them up. i was asking $10,500 for the car and this was in 1993, so that's a lot of disposable income 14 yrs ago. and these two guys didn't look older than 20.

if i placed that ad to lure unexpecting buyers to my house to rob them, i'd have to also kill them and dispose of their bodies each time, lol. but still easily traceable...ie. before i go anywhere unusual or to look at a car....after mapquesting the directions, i'd send an email to my mommy of my exact destinations, purpose and timeframe....then i'd carbon copy that to another email acct....should the situation arises, i'd give it to my captors to show that i did document all the names, addresses, phone#'s, etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saiga7

well the premise of my question is already in a place where it's illegal to carry a concealed firearm, therefore cannot be legal at all.



there's no formula for how the jury would feel. you can't predict the jury, their race, background, creed, political persuasion, etc... all of the above applies to the level of competency of the State's attorney prosecuting the case also. then there's the level of competency of my attorney(s).....especially during jury selection. if i'm rich w/o priors and this is a pro-gun state....i'd have an enormously better chance.

and back to the scenario, if i fire a warning shot and he keeps advancing ....while i have no escape (ie. trapped in an alley w/a deadend.....i don't see why it wouldn't help prove my case that i'd actually gave him the chance of the warning shot(s).



well sure, that's a given. .

---

It's all going depend upon which one of us is facing the danger. If a guy comes after me with his bare hands I don't think I'd "Lone Ranger" his butt with a .44 when a baseball bat would probably take care of him and is easier to reload. A knife? That might be different, and if he's packin' heat I'd probably get outta dodge unless I'm penned in, then it's the OK Corral! The old saying goes "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6." Today it seems that the bad guys get better treatment in the counts than their victims so they can be my victim and I'll be the bad guy.:eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glocker36

First, understand that if you ever have to draw your weapon you need to be ready to use it. NEVER draw a firearm unless you are willing to use it and have a legal right to use it. Brandishing will definitely get you arrested and charged in the best case, in the worst case, you will get the gun taken away from you by the bad guy.

Second, get good training on how/when you can legally use it and understand that if you actually have to shoot someone, that you life will most likely be hell on earth for the near future including arrest, loss of friends, possible loss of job possible loss of marriage etc.

As one of my instructors said in class, even the death of a scumbag is treated as the death of a citizen and you will be run through the system, including arrest, prosecution and possibly jail time and civil court even if you were right.

The ONLY upside of using a firearm is that you will be alive. Which is the whole idea, but understand the HUGE downside also and factor that into your decision.

Sorry for being such a downer, but contemplating the use of lethal force is about as serious as you can get. Too many people get into it WAY too lightly. If you are carrying, legal or illegal, you need to decide ahead of time what you are willing to take a life over.

---

i agree you will probably be arrested but then you have to deal with your consious ( not sure how to spell it sry guys) and know all your life that you killed someone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by man.vs.wild

i agree you will probably be arrested but then you have to deal with your consious ( not sure how to spell it sry guys) and know all your life that you killed someone

---

I'll defer to Nell's earlier statement on this one. Funny thing, I know I don't like feeling guilty, but I'm just really, really, really sure that I won't like feeling dead.

I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony uk

I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense

---

Here's a straight forward "American-style" question regarding what you just posted: "How do you Karate-chop a .45 slug?":rolleyes:

Good Q, Fortunatly i dont live in america and in winter in Scotland we are all to cold to operate something like a gun triger so self defense is the best option

How come its seem that the scenario that we misplace our firearms, lose all our survival kit etc... is so prevalent sounds like a lot of defeatist thinking to me, what about the Baden-Powell motto "be prepared"
Also here in Kanata even much colder and miserable than Scotland, we still manage to discharge a few in winter:rolleyes:

Yeah but you have to remember that we are all miserable up here in scotland and hate the cold (Unless its snow) and with the amount of alcohol you find in your tipical scotsman i dont think we could figure out with part of the firearm is the trigger let alone fire it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony uk

Yeah but you have to remember that we are all miserable up here in scotland and hate the cold (Unless its snow) and with the amount of alcohol you find in your tipical scotsman i dont think we could figure out with part of the firearm is the trigger let alone fire it

---

And we Americans don't have massive alcohol consumption , right...FVR?:rolleyes:

Here, in the great state of Illinois, they tend to frown down upon those of us who wish to keep and carry arms. We are trying to change those laws so that good, hard working people, can defend their selves, family and property (since criminals are gonna have fire arms regardless!). I have a Texas conceal and carry permit, and when I travel out of state, my .45 goes with me. It has gotten me out of some pretty hairy situations before...

same in anti-gun Maryland. my friend had small store in a bad neighborhood. he got into a shoot out with a punk. one of his employees got shot by this punk. the badguy got shot too but escaped. the employee sues my friend. a few years later, they're neck deep in legal fees (not to mention loss of quality of life). the state even prosecuted them for public endangerment.

this isn't something i read about, which makes me even more afraid to shoot anyone LOL. i'm sure things like this about my place of residence, greatly affects my past judgments concerning the 'pulling out of my gun'.... also, i've been sued before for a frivolous reason....and it costs a ton of money just to defend and win a BS lawsuit....and it's almost impossible to recoup legal fees from the losing party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony uk

I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense

---

do people even own guns in the UK? and what about women, the weak, the elderly, etc? how many years of chopsocky training will they need in order to effectively defend themselves against one assailant? what about multiple assailants? chances are, they'll get their *** beat, stabbed or shot. training in sprinting or 100 yard dash would probably be more effective.

what's wrong with carrying a gun and practicing MA? like Elvis once said, "Karate don't beat a gun".