Quick Clot?

My wife had the following come up on one of her forums, does anybody know anything about it?

"Sir;
I try to keep a gun shot trauma kit with my shooting range supplies; when I was ordering some new medical supplies from North American Rescue I was informed that the public can no longer purchase Quikclot ACS+ or any other such hemostatic from them. The operator proceeded to tell me that the [U.S.] Food and Drug Administration (FDA) began regulating these products mid-May because "they go inside the human body." I was able to order some of my other products in the "scrape and light cut" size" but none of the larger quantity hemostatics. Perhaps some other SurvivalBlog readers might have some insight into this situation and can offer some advice. Regards, - "Pop N Fresh"
JWR Replies: That is a most unfortunate development.Much like last year, when Polar Pure iodine crystals were taken off the market, it sounds like another window of opportunity is closing. I strongly encourage readers to stock up on Celox and QuikClot while there is still some remaining inventory available from individual retailers. Several of our loyal advertisers-- including Safecastle and Ready Made Resources--carry these products, and probably still have some left on hand."

Also what is the shelf life of Quick Clot, assuming it has one?:cool2:

Sarge - I picked some up from here. It has a shlef life of three years. (Hope I have to throw it out in three years and buy some more)

Seems to be some variance on availability.Here is an excerpt from one site:http://practicaltrauma.com/qc.shtml


Regulations for purchasing Quikclot products require that you must:

1) Have a minimum of 40 hours of basic American Red Cross training equivalent.


I have seen packets that were 2-4 years old being issued and or exchanged by people as their units rotated. However, I have no authoratative knowledge of actual expiration.
The stuff does work great. I would not use it on any "relatively minor" or non- life threatening wound. But have seen it work "miracles " on several open wounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Sarge - I picked some up from here. It has a shlef life of three years. (Hope I have to throw it out in three years and buy some more)

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Yep. Everything Crash said. You should also think about some of these, too: http://safezonellc.com/moistburn.html

REI still carries it and it is available through Adventure Medical Kits.
www.adventuremedicalkits.com
www.refillyourkit.com

I don't think there is any validity to the FDA story. There have been no product alerts from distributors on it and the manufacturer web sites don't list it.

Here is a post I did a while back on Ken's Tackle Box First Aid Kit thread:

CELOX is another good choice, GW. TraumaDEX, Quikclot, CELOX and HemCon all stem the flow of arterial blood. That could be a life saver under the right circumstance.

CELOX is manufactured in the UK and is used by some US Forces. It is a granulated product that is poured into the wound. The civilian version comes packaged in 15 gram or 35 gram pouches. It has a shelf life of 3 years.

TraumaDEX is based in the US. It is also a powder/granulated type product. Like CELOX, it is poured directly into the wound. It is available to US military but I don't know who is currently using it. It is not packaged for civilian use. It is used widely by EMS and in surgical procedures. It is packaged in 2 gram and 10 gram applicators. Also under the name of Bleed-X. TraumaDEX is only available by Rx while Bleed-X is available over the counter. I don't know why one is by prescription and the other is not. I don't know what the shelf life is either.

HemCon is another US based company. The product was developed and is in use by US forces as well as British forces. They have a lot of different products from topical bandages to products that are stuffed into the wound like the others. All work on the same principles and are used in severe bleeding. There is even a dental product used for wound dressing. To my knowledge, Hemcon is packaged for EMT/Medical institution use. I'm not aware of a civilian product although they do make it available for private label so there may be something out there under a different name. I'm not aware of it being used by US forces either. It also has a 3 year shelf life.

Quikclot is located in the US and is used by the Navy, Coast Guard, Army, and Air Force as well as the Marines. It comes in a sponge format that is applied directly to the injury. There are several varieties but the most common civilian use is a 25 gram and 50 gram packet. It has a shelf life of 3 years.

I don't know which is the best. After quite a bit of study, I went with Quikclot because 1) It's a US based company, 2) They offer larger package sizes and I thought this might be a case where more is better and 3) they have a long history and a lot of practical, military use.

In the end, my guess is it's a lot like the best survival knife. The best hemostatic agent is the one you have with you when you need it.

If you don't carry a hemostatic agent or haven't been aware of them, it's something you might consider. This is one item that could save your life.

I would recommend the Quikclot as well, for one reason. The fact that it comes in a sponge form. Having used the powdered form before it has one potential problem. If you are using it when there is a breeze or even when you just open the package the powder can fly everywhere. These products generate heat when they come in contact with liquids, and if the powder gets in your eyes it can cause some nasty burns. I have seen pics of medics in the sand box that have had this exact thing happen to them. Doesn't look like fun. The sponge form of Quikclot is a different chemical and doesn't have this problem.

Celox comes in Gauze also. After using Celox, and seeing for myself the results, and not having to worry about getting burned by it, I'm sticking with Celox. I checked with Sam Medical and they didn't know about any warnings.

Celox™ is easy to use (just pour, pack and apply pressure), very safe and extremely effective. When mixed with blood, Celox™ forms a gel like clot in 30 seconds. This clotting action is independent of the bodies normal clotting processes. Celox’s™ clotting ability has been proven to work in the presence of common anti-coagulants such as warfarin.

In clinical tests by the US marines, Celox™ was the only product to give 100% survival. It gave robust, reliable clotting with no rebleeding**. Celox’s™ safety has been tested to the intense class 3 CE mark standards. Celox™ is made with chitosan. Chitosan is broken down in the body by lysozyme, a human enzyme, to leave glucosamine, a sugar which is normally found in the body***.

they can try to beat us but we know more you can use ground dried Cayenne peeper for clotting gunshot wounds i work personal security so i have seen this altho it makes a mess and sting "alittle"

Hey justinjedlawton - how about heading on over to the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

And I'd like to see your references for ground cayenne pepper. If it really were that easy the major drug companies would be all over it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

Supposedly 3 to 4 years (as i read the expiration date on the packages i have at home)...but i don't believe that.
I am sure it would still do the job well past 4 years with the way it is sealed. We had stuff in the military with expiration dates from WWII, and everything still functioned or tasted okay.

In fact, expiration dates and their actual validity are a big myth, worth doing a thread on.

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"WWII"........."tasted ok" ???????? You are one brave soul to try that!!!!!!:confused1:

Being a Medical First Responder in the Volunteer Fire Department, we get to provide assistance to those in need, and have a medical director so we can pack our kits with all the good stuff and not have to worry about whether it's sold to the GP or not. I keep a kit for calls (one in each vehicle), and a kit for the house.:innocent:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

Brave ?

lol...we just did not really have a choice.

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Ain't that the truth.

Jonesy, what's for lunch?
Umm, err - got these rations over here.
Cool - pass em out.

Date on packaging - 1947 (this was in 1978). Food tasted fine - the Lucky Strikes were a bit stale though.

I think the strangest (or worst) I saw (and may have eaten) was a case of steaks. We were doing a maintenance period along side the USS Proteus (submarine tender). For older submarines, stores (food and supplies) were loaded one case at a time (long line of sailors passing cases of food by hand from the Proteus to the submarine. All of the cases of meat had a date stamp on them. One case had been sitting in the freezer since before the start of WWII. Not sure if it ever got served, but with the cooks that we had at the time it wouldn't suprise me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crash

the Lucky Strikes were a bit stale though

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L.S.M.F.T. - Lucky Strike Means Formerly Tobacco.:blushing:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

My wife had the following come up on one of her forums, does anybody know anything about it?

"Sir;
I try to keep a gun shot trauma kit with my shooting range supplies; when I was ordering some new medical supplies from North American Rescue I was informed that the public can no longer purchase Quikclot ACS+ or any other such hemostatic from them. The operator proceeded to tell me that the [U.S.] Food and Drug Administration (FDA) began regulating these products mid-May because "they go inside the human body." I was able to order some of my other products in the "scrape and light cut" size" but none of the larger quantity hemostatics. Perhaps some other SurvivalBlog readers might have some insight into this situation and can offer some advice. Regards, - "Pop N Fresh"
JWR Replies: That is a most unfortunate development.Much like last year, when Polar Pure iodine crystals were taken off the market, it sounds like another window of opportunity is closing. I strongly encourage readers to stock up on Celox and QuikClot while there is still some remaining inventory available from individual retailers. Several of our loyal advertisers-- including Safecastle and Ready Made Resources--carry these products, and probably still have some left on hand."

Also what is the shelf life of Quick Clot, assuming it has one?:cool2:

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I know this is a little off topic but can you tell me how do you make your tags to other websites referring to the words in red?

Loki - I'll send you a pm with the information.

Back to the subject, my friend who (I'm assuming) used quikclot in the forces told me that people who had shellfish allergies could not use it because it would cause the victim to have a severe allergic reaction. (I'm assuming it has some kind of shellfish..?)

He recommended Celox for my BOB FAK since there hasn't (to his knowledge) been any reports of allergic reaction.

I'm sure you can fin more info if you google it.

I have a very close friend who is both clumsy AND highly allergic to shellfish. He better not ever pi$$ me off...... :sneaky2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pilot Piotrowski

Back to the subject, my friend who (I'm assuming) used quikclot in the forces told me that people who had shellfish allergies could not use it because it would cause the victim to have a severe allergic reaction. (I'm assuming it has some kind of shellfish..?)

He recommended Celox for my BOB FAK since there hasn't (to his knowledge) been any reports of allergic reaction.

I'm sure you can fin more info if you google it.

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If you are able, please clarify this with your friend. I have read from multiple sources that there is almost no chance of alergic reaction. Maybe if he has a source or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

If you are able, please clarify this with your friend. I have read from multiple sources that there is almost no chance of alergic reaction. Maybe if he has a source or something.

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True. Everywhere I have read states that there is very little chance of an allergic reaction (most common source being the QuikClot FAQ here: http://www.bestglide.com/FAQ.pdf ) whereas some sources say there's 0% of an allergic reaction. But I spoke with my friend and he said that in his training he was told to always ask the victim if they are allergic to shellfish before quikclot was administered. But in a life or death situation, what would it really matter? :online2long:

Not true. The active ingredient of QuikClot is zeolite, derived from lava rocks. It contains no animal products. Hemcon and Celox are both derived from Chitan, which are the exoskeletons of shellfish.

You see! That there is why we have a Minister of Science folks.

At your service. (Deep bow)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

(Deep bow)

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Nice. Probably just screwed up your back for an entire week. :sneaky2:

At my age, just about everything is metaphorical.

The military stopped using Quick Clot. If it gets in your blood stream it cause a clot and can kill you.My son is a Combat Medic in the Army(active) and he said all of that is bad to use.:thumbdown

CLIFF NOTES: QuickClot makes sense for military, not for survival/BOBs/etc. QuickClot can cause serious damage and only makes sense in a very limited set of circumstances; standard first aid is a far better option. Save your money, spend it with the Red Cross.

From what I've heard, QuickClot and other rapid clotting agents are a poor substitute for proper first aid technique, especially in a longer term survival scenario.

In my first aid training, we discussed these agents and our instructor said that they can cause severe burns and serious clots. Apparently, they make sense in a military situation where sparing a solider to put pressure on an ab pad isn't an option, but in situations where standard first aid procedure (direct pressure --> pressure points --> last resort tourniquet) is doable, these agents a distant second in terms of results.

I've heard that the potential damage these agents can do in untrained hands is immense. For example, direct pressure works on wounds in limbs, the thorax and the head. There is almost never any harm in applying direct pressure, but an untrained individual in the heat of an emergency might apply QuickClot to a sucking chest wound, for example, this would make an already bad situation far far worse.

Ultimately, I have a hard time believing a panicky and undertrained person, faced with lots of blood, could or would distinguish between the few situations in which these agents make sense, and the countless situations when they'll do a great deal of harm.

Brandon

I have no idea where you guys get your information but you are dispensing wrong info. Several of the hemostat agents, including Quikclot, are still in use in the military and will probably always be. Unless something better comes along. I've never read of any of the agents causing that particular issue, Jeepman, but I suppose nothing is outside the realm of possibility. Of course, an arterial bleed causes death, too, so take your pick.

Typ3 - Your instructor should acquire updated information. Hemostatic agents do not cause burns. There was a time when they did but no longer.

As for pressure on an arterial bleed. Good luck with that. You must maintain constant pressure if you are lucky enough to stem the flow of blood. That is not true with a hemostatic agent. Add it to the wound and bandage. It's pretty simple.

I have no idea how you would apply direct pressure to an arterial blood flow for a wound in the thorax. In that case, you are probably talking Aorta, which means you need to be inside the chest. I doubt you will be successful with a hemostatic agent, either.

I'll give you your choice of first aid treatments in the following scenario. You are out in the woods and have an accident of any type resulting in an arterial bleed. You can apply direct pressure or apply a hemostatic agent to stop the flow of blood. It really is your choice. Because if it ever happens you will have to take action. As for me, it will be a hemostatic agent, in my case Quikclot, for me, any family member or any friends that happen to be along. I'd like to keep me and them around a while longer.

It's okay to have a differing opinion but not okay to dispense wrong medical advice. Please research your information before posting it. It could impact someone's decision on what products they carry and that could result in the loss of their life. A few casual words could literally mean life and death. That's true, by the way, for any medical advice. Not just pertaining to this.

Rick--I don't want to flame up, so I'll keep it brief.

Check page 29 of Z-Medica's own document about QuickClot: QucikClot Training Doc (Kinda gory)

As for misapplication of QuickClot, one study indicates even a significant portion trained Marine Corps personnel would wrongly apply QuickClot to ab and head wounds: Academic Abstract

I'm not saying QuickClot is without use, but, to quote the much maligned wikipedia:

Quote:

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The majority of deaths from exsanguination (blood loss) come from internal injuries, such as the laceration or perforation of the liver, spleen, or major arteries, which can only be controlled and treated by surgical techniques, therefore QuikClot is only useful in a situation where a person has serious external injuries that cannot easily be controlled by direct pressure, elevation, or a tourniquet. This situation is almost exclusive to tactical operations, where the provider must consider his own safety while treating his patient. Given that tactical operations are very seldom encountered by the everday provider, and that basic first aid and rapid transport is still the preferred method of treating external exsanguination, the situations where QuikClot would be the preferred choice of bleeding control is extremely limited.

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remy-

Fair enough.

I just worries me that totally untrained people will substitute agents for proper first aid. Learning to locate and apply pressure to the femoral and brachial arteries doesn't take long, but I have a feeling people equipped with these agents will skip the normal first aid algorithms and go straight to QuickClot.

I think the Marine Corp study I posted bears out the fact that, in stressful first aid situations, people tend to overreact and misapply things like QuickClot.

That said, if you have a solid first aid base and you're properly trained, there is no harm in carrying hemostatic agents as a last resort measure.

Don't worry about a flame. We're discussing not cussing. Adults can do that.

I would never argue the point that everyone needs to receive proper first aid training. That's a must. First aid training is one of those rare situations where a little is good and a lot is better. Nor do I argue the point that abdominal and thoracic bleeds will not be helped by a a hemostatic agent. I indicated that in my earlier post.

I'll also conceded that arterial bleeds of the arm, neck or leg are fairly rare (thank goodness). I've lived my whole life and never had one. But if I do, I want something like QuikClot available.

I've also contacted Z Medica with regard to Jeepman's report of medics pulling the product. I'll post on here what they have to say.

While you're asking Z-Medica questions, why don't you ask them about the appalling misapplication rates cited in the above study? :tongue_smilie:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

And I'd like to see your references for ground cayenne pepper. If it really were that easy the major drug companies would be all over it.

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i have used this personally on my self in my line of work these typs of things are extremely useful also a strong lemon has also been used to coagulate blood after a home birth this {lemon} i have not used b/c they are hard to come by were i live I believe that this might be "written" is this book

SOURCE-Natural Remedies Encyclopedia

Natural Remedies Encyclopedia (Hardcover)
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