Fixed Blades Vs. Folders.

A question was raised regarding Swiss Army Knives & Leatherman as a knife choice for "Newbies." Without going "off-topic" anymore than I already had I failed to answer the question as I felt it was important enough to deserve it's own thread. 1st, just let me say that I'm a big fan of Victorinox. I own 5 various models of their Swiss Army Knives, 1 pair of their sunglasses with side shields, 1 of their compasses, & their Multi-Tool as opposed to Leatherman. Not that I find anything wrong with Leatherman, both my wife & youngest son have one, so if I felt the need for that brand I'd simply borrow theirs; I just really like Victorinox.

However, I'd never use or recommend a folder of any kind as a PRIMARY knife for the following reason:

A fixed blade with a full tang is a lot strudier. A folder has a weak spot at the pivot point. Many Survival experts state this fact in their books.
Mors Kochanski; "Bushcraft", pgs. 109-110 recommends any one of 3 knives: Mora (Sweden), Soligan (Germany), or Sheffield (England). The chapter on "Knifecraft" (Pgs 109-134) is extremely interesting. In his booklet: "Tools of Survival & Survival Training"; pg. 14: he writes: "A STURDY, SHARP KNIFE: A survival knife should be difficult to break, yet delicate enough to carve a wooden netting needle and be sharpened in such a way that one can produce wooden shavings with it. it should stand up to the use of a baton. A folding knife fails due to the weak blade pivot."

Also, Cody Lundin, in his book: "98.6 Degrees The Art Of Keeping Your A*s Alive" recommends the Mora on pgs. 172-178. He also has this to say about folders (PG. 175) "Fixed, full-tang blade: this eliminates folding knives,which are held together by the mercy of a small metal pin that anchors the blade to the handle. This blade is the Achilles heel of all folders, and I've watched more than one blow up in the field when subjected to heavy use."

this from John D. McCann: "Build the Perfect Survival Kit.": (pg. 77) For all but the smallest kits, my preference is a fixed blade knife.

Dispite anybody's opinions to the contrary here, I prefer to listen to the experts.:cool2:

You'll get no argument from me.

However, I do have a question: The SOG Revolver. As far as sturdiness goes, closer to a fixed blade? Or closer to a folder?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgtdraino

You'll get no argument from me.

However, I do have a question: The SOG Revolver. As far as sturdiness goes, closer to a fixed blade? Or closer to a folder?

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While the strength and sturdiness of folders will vary (I don't own the SOG Revolver) it is still a folder, albeit from all reviews that I have read one of very good quality and strength.

By the way, the SOG Seal Revolver was invented by one of our members - Robbie Roberson.

I believe a folder has its usefulness and own several but as far as an all around survival knife ,, stick to a good quality fixed blade.

Not only is it weaker, but a folding knife can be dangerous when it breaks. I had an old schrade liner lock with a 2 inch blade. Well, one day I put to much pressure on it, and the little piece of metal that holds the blade open flew out with enough force to cut my hand. Not to say I usually carry a folder. I always have a non-locking folder, locking folder everyday, and my seal pup elite when I go hiking. If I'm going to be there a while I'll throw in my Estwing hatchet for firewood and defense (It makes heckah shillelagh)

I would have no problem going into the woods with a folder. And it isn't just a knife, its a knife, can opener, saw, fish scaler, magnifying glass, USB card, 20 speed blender, ar15, whatever model you have. It is a personal preference nothing more. They occupy less space, are legal to carry in more circumstances (what good is your knife if it is back home), can be made to withstand chore work. Don't get me wrong I have a few fixed blade myself. but when I choose one to get me to and from work and as a daily carry i choose a folding gerber tanto. If I plan on going deep into the woods I will carry my fixed blade knife. I also have in my kits a swiss army knife. Its personal preference. If you are gonna say this is the best knife you can use then you should put in a disclaimer saying this might not work in every situation.
when field and stream's David petzal found what he believed to be the 20 best knifes ever made the mora was not on it. was the swiss army knife, yes. was the leatherman, yes.

all folders are weaker than a full tang fixed blade. Having said that my frame lock Striders are about as strong as you can get for a folder. My primary cary right noe is a Strider SnG tanto tip and a Busse Meaner street, and a good utility tool

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sh4d0wm4573ri7

I believe a folder has its usefulness and own several but as far as an all around survival knife ,, stick to a good quality fixed blade.

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I agree, a fixed blade is typically the way to go and is my choice too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

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Does deputy sheriff fall in there?:sneaky2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

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You talked to everyone involved; every Park Ranger? Every Swat team member? Etc.?
You trust Smokey the Bear? And you expect anybody to take you serious?
Oh, & by the way, this thread is basically about "Fixed Blades, not JUST the Mora, vs the Folder!:cool2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcfd45

I would have no problem going into the woods with a folder. And it isn't just a knife, its a knife, can opener, saw, fish scaler, magnifying glass, USB card, 20 speed blender, ar15, whatever model you have. It is a personal preference nothing more. They occupy less space, are legal to carry in more circumstances (what good is your knife if it is back home), can be made to withstand chore work. Don't get me wrong I have a few fixed blade myself. but when I choose one to get me to and from work and as a daily carry i choose a folding gerber tanto. If I plan on going deep into the woods I will carry my fixed blade knife. I also have in my kits a swiss army knife. Its personal preference. If you are gonna say this is the best knife you can use then you should put in a disclaimer saying this might not work in every situation.
when field and stream's David petzal found what he believed to be the 20 best knifes ever made the mora was not on it. was the swiss army knife, yes. was the leatherman, yes.

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Never heard of David P.; but hey, don't let me stop you, it's your choice, knock yourself out.:cool2:

I have a large Cold Steel Twistmaster it's a folder that has basically a seriously beefed up Opinel style locking mechanism. I've used it with baton to split wood, hacked through approximately 2" thick mulberry saplings, all sorts of rough work. I'd say that it is a folder that is 99.99% as strong as a fixed blade when in the locked position.

i carry a small folder, its a "disposable blade" it gets the toughest grungy jobs .(if it breaks oh well> my good knife was spared the abuse,so i dont mind haveing a breakable.

Quite some time back we had a member come on here that had a custom-made folder that ran him 1500 bucks! I'm just betting that his folder at that price would hold up as well as a fixed blade. But I ain't shellin' out that much cash on any kind of a knife just to find out! I also have a Buck folder & Buck multi-tool as well. However the tip of the blade on the multi-tool snapped off under minimal use awhile back so I'll be sending it in to Buck for repair or replacement. I also have a Buck "General" that I bought from Cabela's with a 7 inch blade; fixed of course. It would take a lot to damage that one! However ya all go along with whatever you like, I made my statement with the 1st post of this thread. That's my story & I'm sticking to it!:cool2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

And talking about survival experts.

Cops ?
SAR teams ?
EMT personnel ?
Our military ?
Fire fighters ?
Coast guard ?
Border patrol ?
K9 units ?
SWAT teams ?
Park Rangers ?
Smokey the bear ?

None of them have a Mora.
All of them have folders, multi-tools and fixed blades other than the Mora.

Now...i don't know about you, but i trust those guys know about survival. They survive a multitude of environments every day and rely on their tools...all of them are experts. And again...none of them have a Mora.

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I have carried my Mora on many a deployment, and to may parts of the world. So, at least for Military, I would not say that "none of them" has (or carries) a Mora. (I can also name a few other troops who carry one).:yawn:

I have my Buck knife - fixed blade. I recently picked up a SpiderCo serrated folder. The tip is broken, but since I bought the blade at a garage sale for a buck, I am not complaining. It will serve well as a pocket blade/saw. My brother took off with/borrowed my folding camp saw...so the spider will serve as a temporary replacement. I really prefer fixed blades though. If the pin breaks on a folder, major pain in the butt!!

I would be willing to bet that when you break the tip off of a knife (folder or fixed) you were using it for a task it was not intended for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laughingbeetle

I have my Buck knife - fixed blade. I recently picked up a SpiderCo serrated folder. The tip is broken, but since I bought the blade at a garage sale for a buck, I am not complaining. It will serve well as a pocket blade/saw. My brother took off with/borrowed my folding camp saw...so the spider will serve as a temporary replacement. I really prefer fixed blades though. If the pin breaks on a folder, major pain in the butt!!

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You can't go wrong for only a buck! I've noticed a trend on some of the top-name knife manufacturers; they're starting to skimp on steel towards the tip of the blade, at least that's my impression. Which Buck knife do you have?:cool2:

I figure I have two pockets. I might as well carry both.

A multitool like a leatherman is extremely useful, but it can't do everything. A nice fixed blade knife of reasonable length can do a lot more, such as cutting down a small tree (hammer the back of the blade with a rock until the tree falls) small folders without a wide back side wouldn't work well for that. You could also fashion it into a spear, or more easily and safely clean game. A fixed blade knife has a safer, easier to hold, and all around better grip, thats a big deal. Try gripping a 20 function swiss army knife, it is not ergonomic, your hand will be more prone to slipping. But there are lots of things your 20 function swiss army knife can do that the fixed blade cannot. Of course, also, your fixed blade could have a hollowed out handle good for storing a small survival kit... or even a small swiss army knife! a knife within a knife!

Maybe a third knife took, something with a skinning hook on it.

I suppose if I only had one pocket in my pants it might be a hard decision for a survival knife (note, this would be a knife for wilderness survival, not for going on a police patrol, or rushing into a fire, or storming a hostage situation. Remy's comment about police and swat etc would seem irrelevant to me). I would probably go with a fixed blade knife with a hollow handle like this

http://www.4discountknives.com/ultim...with-p-62.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/bushm...nife-p-37.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/rambo...nife-p-55.html

But really... what I'd most likely do is simply buy a new pair of pants, one with multiple pockets. I believe they're called "cargo pants" and you can also buy "cargo vests". I would feel no need to limit myself to one tool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris

I figure I have two pockets. I might as well carry both.

A multitool like a leatherman is extremely useful, but it can't do everything. A nice fixed blade knife of reasonable length can do a lot more, such as cutting down a small tree (hammer the back of the blade with a rock until the tree falls) small folders without a wide back side wouldn't work well for that. You could also fashion it into a spear, or more easily and safely clean game. A fixed blade knife has a safer, easier to hold, and all around better grip, thats a big deal. Try gripping a 20 function swiss army knife, it is not ergonomic, your hand will be more prone to slipping. But there are lots of things your 20 function swiss army knife can do that the fixed blade cannot. Of course, also, your fixed blade could have a hollowed out handle good for storing a small survival kit... or even a small swiss army knife! a knife within a knife!

Maybe a third knife took, something with a skinning hook on it.

I suppose if I only had one pocket in my pants it might be a hard decision for a survival knife (note, this would be a knife for wilderness survival, not for going on a police patrol, or rushing into a fire, or storming a hostage situation. Remy's comment about police and swat etc would seem irrelevant to me). I would probably go with a fixed blade knife with a hollow handle like this

http://www.4discountknives.com/ultim...with-p-62.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/bushm...nife-p-37.html

or this

http://www.4discountknives.com/rambo...nife-p-55.html

But really... what I'd most likely do is simply buy a new pair of pants, one with multiple pockets. I believe they're called "cargo pants" and you can also buy "cargo vests". I would feel no need to limit myself to one tool.

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I enjoyed reading this & agree with you about including both folder & multi-tool with a fixed blade; however, as I posted earlier, I would not knowingly have ONLY a folder &/or a multi-tool as my PRIMARY knife.

I also agree with your last statement about "Cargo" pants. I use military BDUs just for that reason. And, like you, I also viewed Remy's post, not just irrelevant, but downright silly when he included "Smokey The Bear(?)"
However, all that being said I do not agree with your choice of "Survival Knife" because of both the fact that they lack structural integrity &, if you lose your knife, you lose your survival kit!:cool2:

A knife's purpose, in the wilderness or on the streets does not differ.:confused1:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

I don't believe that my comment was irrelevant.
I think that cops have a pretty good grasp on survival and the tools pertaining to it.

A knife's purpose, in the wilderness or on the streets does not differ.
After that, it comes down to preferences.

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I think cops have a very good idea about fighting crime.

If I'm heading into the wilderness fighting crime is not what I'm worried about.

I think there is a dichotomy between what people are talking about here. Are we talking about an everyday carry type knife, or a knife for our survival kit, BOB, or otherwise that we'd carry when in the wild?

Obviously I wouldn't carry an 8 inch fixed knife concealed on my person 24/7. It'd be illegal, for one, and to carry it unconcealed would invite unwanted attention. In this case the swiss army knife multitool type device would be better.

But if I were going for a long wilderness trek, I'd take both, having two pockets, but really, the one I'd most want, is the large fixed blade knife.

Personally, I have a knife for pretty much every occassion, because there aren't really too many occassions where I need it. I carry a folder daily and it gets used for huge jobs like opening packages or envelopes, but there's often some little chore around the office where someone's asking to borrow a knife. Outdoors, in the bush, I always use a fixed blade, I've never used a gut hook, some people swear by them, some people swear at them, I just don't bother, I know how to gut what I kill.

I don't agree with the statements "A knife's purpose, in the wilderness or on the streets does not differ" A knife is a tool designed to do many jobs, the environment you're in will determine what those jobs are. An EMT might have to cut somebody out of a seatbelt, I'll never have to do that in the bush I don't imagine.

I also don't agree with "if you lose your knife, you lose your survival kit!" If that's the case, why do you bother bringing anything other than a knife to begin with? There should be plenty of good use for all the items you carry in a survival kit and you can start looking at ways to create a knife if you've lost yours. Ask Frank.

Not to beat a dead horse, but as has been said countless times by many people....the right tool for the right job. Sometimes folders are the best tool for me to carry and sometimes a fixed blade is the best tool. Most times I will have more than one with me. When I'm out in the wilderness fixed, folder, multi-tool, folding saw, ax...

Chris - I'm not a big fan of the hollow handled or Rambo knives for wilderness use. Display, conversation piece, whatever are fine. If that is all I had in the wilderness (just as if all I had was my Leatherman) I would be comfortable and do fine - you just have to know the limitations of the tool.

As far as Sarge's survival kit comment - I think he was referring to the contents of the hollow handled knife.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

As far as Sarge's survival kit comment - I think he was referring to the contents of the hollow handled knife.

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Yes I was, & if that's all you had you run the risk of losing it. I'm also not a big fan of the "hollow-handled Rambo specials", but, like Crash, I'd do okay if that's all I had. I just don't recommend them.:cool2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

Well here is something we can agree on.

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Yep! Weird, isn't it?:cool2:

Hmmmm.....progress?

from this - :boxer::boxer:

to this - :wub::wub:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Hmmmm.....progress?

from this - :boxer::boxer:

to this - :wub::wub:

---

Don't ask, don't tell! I'll bet you were wondering why I had only guys on MY list, huh?:innocent:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mischief

A knife's purpose, in the wilderness or on the streets does not differ.:confused1:

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The problem here is that you are "painting with too broad of a brush." Try carrying an Ontario RTAK 2 into your local Wal-Mart, or other local buisness & see how far you get. In an urban environment I carry a folder. Even when I camp out for a week at the cornerstone festival I carry a folder & have a kitchen knife or two back at the camp kitchen, although this year my Mora will replace that. Knives are created for different uses. Comparing 2 obvious types, the common "hunting knife" vs. the common "Fish Filet knife" illustrates my point. Both have different blade factors in materials, thickness, & most importantly, the angle of blade grind. I can tell your inexperience in such matters by your post. There is a wealth of study material on this subject here on the forums.:cool2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remy

That just proves how much we really pay attention to what is being said, how it is being said, and for what reasons.

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What? I guess I was busy drinkin' coffee and missed it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

You can't go wrong for only a buck! I've noticed a trend on some of the top-name knife manufacturers; they're starting to skimp on steel towards the tip of the blade, at least that's my impression. Which Buck knife do you have?:cool2:

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119 fixed blade. The bugger is kinda big though, I am going to pick up the next size down eventually. (Mind you, I use the blade no problem, however bigger is not always better.) But I still have to put in an order with Rick. Just have to double check on shipping laws for New York State. They are VERRRY fussy about what can be shipped here. Off the main subject... As far as everyday folders go I have been carrying a small 3 blade by Schrade. I honestly don't remember where i got this one, but I am pretty sure it is older than I am.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laughingbeetle

119 fixed blade. The bugger is kinda big though, I am going to pick up the next size down eventually. (Mind you, I use the blade no problem, however bigger is not always better.) But I still have to put in an order with Rick. Just have to double check on shipping laws for New York State. They are VERRRY fussy about what can be shipped here. Off the main subject... As far as everyday folders go I have been carrying a small 3 blade by Schrade. I honestly don't remember where i got this one, but I am pretty sure it is older than I am.

---

Hmmm, Wal-Mart sells the #119 Special for $40; $60 & up elsewhere, not a bad deal! I'd still contact Buck, they could probably grind that down a bit to make it better. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.:cool2:

I bought the Buck at Gander Mtn. $50.00. They have a full line of Buck blades, both fixed and folding. I love the Buck blades...they stand up to everything except prying up a paint can lid. I didn't do that, mind you...that was my dad...no knife sense in him at all. I still love him though.:)

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