.300 win-mag reduced loads

Does anyone have any data for reduced loads in the 300wm?

I have a friend who bought one and it has turned out to be more than he can handle. He has had the rifle for several years and has fired it only 4 times. It beat him up and he has never shot it again. Instead, he hunts with a beat up old Marlin 336.

It is a real nice Ruger m77 with all the trim and he can not find anything equal to it in an affordable package today. He bought it when they were $300+- and when he saw prices on a new one he about croaked. Literally! I was there and he sputtered and choked a little bit.

I do not want squib loads, I simply want to take the performance down to about 30-06/308 level.

I only have one factory load available in any of my books and that one is still what would be termed a top level 30-06 load, and it still calls for a huge volume of powder. 60 grains of 4350 and a 150 gn bullet. That is still 10 grains above max in a 30-06.

I am thinking that even the bottom end loads in .300wm are going to be more than he can handle and I want to see if anyone else has developed a safe load down around 2600-2700fps level using a faster burning powder.

I am just hoping that this rifle is not like most that I own and wants top velocity for best accuracy. I have a couple that do not shoot their best until I exceed max.

I know squat about reloading but ran across this. Hope it helps.

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...ifle-loads.pdf

He needs to sell it or trade it on something he isn't afraid of.
May take it in the keister...but goes from an expensive monster in the safe to a usable tool.

No matter what you do he is still gonna associate that rifle with a "whooping"...hard to hit anything with you eyes closed and turning your head as you jerk the trigger.

Besides that is no such thing as a reduced load in a magnum....LOL
Just my opinion.

"

I have been looking at all the books and trying to decide what to do.

That 60% rule is good information to know, but it is only good for H4895 and the 300WM does not have a load listed using that powder as a starting point.

The fact that this guy does not reload complicates the situation somewhat. Or it really could simplify it.

300WM ammo runs about $40 per box. Premium .308 ammo is $10 cheaper per box and run of the mill .308 is half that. I am now shooting some Wolf SP that runs $10 per box and shoots real well, so he could make up the difference on ammo cost real quickly.

He has had the rifle for so long, and bought it at such a reduced price, that inflation has passed him and even if he takes what I would consider a "beating" on a trade he will still get more than he paid for the rifle working a deal through the LGS.

I think it is time to start talking about a trade. I just have to make sure he does not give the rifle away in the trade to save some money on ammo. He ought to be able to get an AR in .223 and a Savage Axis in .308 both out of this deal!

I do not have a 300 Win Mag nor have I ever loaded for one. I have its undernourished twin sister the 308 Norma Mag and have never considered a reduce load (although I'm not quite sure why not).

My Lyman book shows a starting load of IMR 4895 load of 58 gr with a 150 gr Hornady JSP at 2808 fps. Also starting load of 56 gr IMR 4895 under a 165 gr Nosler PSP at 2672 fps.

Those two might be in the 30-06 recoil/boom category without going below recommended low end load.

Rocky Raab used to have a website called Rocky's Reloading Room. I tried it and it's not there any more. I'll look for it. He developed some reduced loads for all 30 calibers using cast bullets. If I find it I'll post the link.

Alan

Oxymorons

Jumbo shrimp
Reduced loads in a magnum
Military inteliance
Lite beer
Postal service
Caffeine free coffee.
Coke zero
Ford Escort GT

I load for a 300 wsm and the 7mm mag...close or a touch hotter than factory.....
They don't boot ya any harder than a 3-1/2 Hevi shot thru a turkey choke.

Seriously. he is gonna be afraid of that rifle no matter what....It's a head thing.

I hate to State the obvious but what was he thinking when he bought it?? It's a high powered magnum cartridge that will take anything on this continent, it's gonna knock you around a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manwithnoname

I hate to State the obvious but what was he thinking when he bought it?? It's a high powered magnum cartridge that will take anything on this continent, it's gonna knock you around a bit.

---

Some guys have bigger eyes and ego's than sense.....MORE POWER
I shoot the 7 mag petty regular as well as the .300 wsm...but they are not stop sign plinkers.

Ok, now I'm writing more out of boredom than anything else so this probably isn't constructive. I shoot a 45-70 as a deer gun. Is it overkill for whitetails? Probably a bit but it does anchor them for the most part where they are shot. It is still potent enough (within range) of anything else on the continent (which is a huge factor of why I got it). What I have to deal with inherantly with that cartridge? In a light H&R handi rifle configuration it IS the proverbial mule!! This rifle with Winchester 300gr sjhp is NOT fun to shoot. In fact after 3-4 shots youre checking to see if your nose is bleeding or not. IT AINT FUN TO SHOOT!! I cannot imagine a 300 win mag. Maybe a dedicated caribou/moose gun at range?

They don't make Handis in many mag chenberings....as the barrels are not long enough to burn the slow powders and get your speed.

I shoot a 45/70 as well and find it more of a push than the harsh shoulder slam like the 30-06....to me the worst kicking son of a gun I own.

Had a Winchester mod 70 30/06 a loooong to.e ago. At that point, was the hardest kicker I'd ever shot. Wasn't so hard and jolting as it was was a hard non stoppable push. The 45-70 handi is a eye blink Barry bonds home run swing, if that makes sense.

My 308 Norman Mag is the only belted magnum I have. I have it by mistake. I bought what was billed as a 300 Win Mag barrel for a 98 Mauser Action. When I got it after, checking it out, I found that it was NOT a 300 Win Mag. I didn't know what it was but I knew what it was not. On the face of the chamber, written in very small letters was 308 Norma. Upon further checking I found that it was indeed a 308 Norma Magnum barrel. Further research brought to light that it was developed to mimic 300 Win Mag ballistics on a reg length action (sounding better all the time since it was going to take some work to put a 300 WM barrel on a 98 action. Then I learned that it was close enough to be identical to the 30/338 Wildcat. That sealed the deal for purely nostalgic reasons. My grandfather had had a 30/338 back in the early 60s and had sold it because it burned too much powder (he was a frugal man) and he said he was inordinately wicked to shoot. I had his dies but I bought 308 Norma dies. The build was uneventful and I glass bedded the action in a Walnut Fajen stock. I put a Simmons 6x12x50 on it (I'm frugal too) and worked up a load. I got pressure and out-of-body recoil about halfway to top end loads and pulled the bullets on the rest. Settled on 71.5 gr (if my memory serves me tonight) of 4831SC and a 180 gr Sierra Game King BT.

Since I kinda compare all 30 cal to the 30-06 I figure that a 30-06 delivers at 200 yards what a 30-30 delivers at 100 yards, and the 308 Norma (or the 300 WM) delivers at 300 yards what a 30-06 delivers at 200 yards. This may be over simplification but I may have and over simplified mind.

I got lucky with that barrel. The rifle shoots great and I have no compunction about squeezing off a 300 (or 400) yard shot at a stationary target from a good rest. The longest shot I've made (and taken) was 425+/- paces and I hit within 2 inches of the point of aim. That buck went 10 yards. The 180 gr bullet passed completely through and as near as I can tell did not expand appreciably judging from the exit wound. He was a large mature 4 point WT that needed to be culled, otherwise I do not normally take such shots. But that is the rifle for it.

It does have significant recoil and from the bench it becomes tiresome to shoot after a few shots. But, as we all know, by the time the crosshairs settle on that bucks shoulder, with the stock snugged in tight and the squeeze begins, the recoil, if it is felt at all, is over quickly and goes largely un-noticed.

One time one year recoil gave me fits and that was with a 25-06, which is mild in the recoil line up. I had a broken right hand and could only press the trigger with my index finger (which I had whittled out a place in the cast for). I killed a buck one evening (two shots and another story about Nosler partitions) and a hog on the following evening. I found out how much having a grip on the rifle meant with those three shots. It nearly got away from me all three times.

Kyrat, If your buddy will go for the reduced loads on the low end and find one that is accurate, he probably won't feel the recoil any more than if he were shooting a 30-06 if he pads up good on the bench. Recoil on the bench is greater than recoil in the field.

I shot my 10 gage sxs twice from the bench to see where slugs were shooting. I found that I do not care where they are shooting...

Alan

LOL...I hear ya....
One shot that hurt me the worst was a 12 ga turkey gun w/3" loads.....but fired over my right shoulder while hold it in the crook of my left arm.

One of those sneak up behind you on the right side...and you don't dare move....so slid the gun down , turned it around, sliding it on my right shoulder...sighted with my fet eye even with the receiver.....
He stepped into the open about 10 yards away.....and pulled the trigger.

Left arm went numb and tingling.....stayed that way for a minute or 2....like a crazy bone hit.....
I filed that under..."I'll never freaking do THAT again.....!"

BTW was 23# with 19 " beard.

I guess that I am not very recoil sensitive, especially when shooting rifles.

I can sit through a 50-75 round session shooting my Mosin and never have a fault. Most people really complain about that particular rifle and it does not bother me.

I have been shooting and reloading 30-06 for most of my life. That means I have loads available that are considered "illegal" in modern reloading manuals. I have a 1954 book that has 30-06 starting loads that are near max in today's books and top loads are often well above max, but listed as acceptable in 1954.

That means that some of my 30-06 loads are well into the 300WM performance range sending a 150 grain SP bullet at near 3,000fps.

It does not bother me to shoot those loads using the normal 9-10 pound rifle.

I did touch one round off in my 30-06 single shot Rossi a few years back and that got my attention but not from the recoil. It was the muzzle flip that caught my attention. I could not hold the barrel down on the sandbags!

I remember having some hot 200 grain loads along that day that I decided to pass on due to not wanting to damage the shooting bench with a runaway rifle.

I had a 6 pound .308 back in 1989, which I built when the doctor first told me I could not carry anything that weighed more than 8 pounds for extended periods. That thing gave me a real good "scope eye". I bled like a pig and scared the kids to death with the blood flow, but the recoil itself is not what I remember, and I wish I had that rifle back today! I wold add a couple of pounds and set that scope out front and have a nice scout rifle on a 95 Mauser action.

The only thing I have that is miserable to shoot is my handi-rifle in 12 gauge. I despise that particular gun and its ergonomics. Dang thing hurts me every time I pull the trigger! Those H&R people really hate their customers! Always have.

Many loads listed in my manual from the 60s are significantly above those shown today. The explanation I have gotten is that the powder is different. That over time the differences in lots of powder produced have changed burning rates. It's still called 4895 or whatever, but it is subtly different.

Alan

Just like the close but not entirely interchangeably H4895 and IMR4895 (and others), differences exist over time.

What brought this to light for me was loading from old manuals and I started ttc getting sticking, excessive recoil, and primers trying to ooze out between the case and bolt face, when I wasn't even close to max.

Alan

I have heard that tale about powders changing over the years, which seems a contradiction since the powders are blended to meet specific pressure ratings for that powder. Changing the blend means it is a different powder and needs a different label. That is especially true for the IMR powders which are made to meet government standards from lot to lot. Shotgun and pistol powders seem to not have changed at all in the past 100 years.

That is a problem I have never had when using either IMR4350 or IMR4320. I am getting the same performance from my 30-06 reloads now that I got back in the 1970s using 1950s data.

They seem to have remained consistent over the years, which is why I use them instead of the 4895 blends which everyone feels should be the standard.

I got into the same situation you had once when I accidentally used H4895 instead of IMR4895. I was having to force the bolt open, getting extruded primers and such.

That was in a 7x57 load using a 175 grain boat tail bullet I was using in a '95 Mauser, which is not known as an extremely strong action. The load was right at max with one powder but over max on the other. I thought I would be safe since the books are conservative with 7x57 data.

I fired two shots out of that batch and got a 2 shot group with both holes touching at 200 yards. Best two shot group I ever shot! Only problem was having to hammer open the bolt and dig the brass out of the firing pin hole.

For years the only powders I kept for rifle loads were 4320 and 4350, mostly 4350. It was not until I started reloading for .223 that I added 3031 to the mix and started using it for 30-30 loads also. 3031 seems a very versatile powder and if all I loaded for was small to medium sized cases that might be my single powder choice. 3031 has given me excellent accuracy out of the .223 and 30-30.

I don't know about the validity of the "over time" thing either. I just know I was getting excessive pressure using old data with new powder. I'm not going to argue with 50k+ psi.

Regardless, I don't know why the 300 WM could not be tamed a bit with a reduced load of IMR4895 or H4831. Seems like it would be easier with 4831.

Alan

I own two magnum calibers, a .357 mag and a .22 mag. I'm racking my memory, is there something else around here with a magnum label. Thought about a 300 win mag a time or two but never felt the need. Maybe my 50 express was at one time considered a magnum.

40 gr. RX7 is shown as a load for 165 gr Nosler PSP at 2401 fps and 34K pressure. That sounds pretty mild to me.

Alan

I just got an e-mail that might have made the decision more justifiable. Sometimes we have to rationalize our way around things.

To reload 100 rounds for the .300WM there will have to be new dies at $40, a can of powder @ $25 and a box of bullets @ $28. .300WM brass is $1 per case so 100 empties to work with will be another $100. Counting primers that will be right at $190.

Thompson Center has just extended their $75 rebate offer until April, which makes the cost of a TC Compass rifle $197.

He can buy a .308 for $5-$10 more than just the supplies to reload a .300WM.

On top of that surplus .308 ammo is going for $0.37 cents per round at the moment, so 100 rounds of .308 is only $37 and it is already loaded.

Bingo........

does it always have to be rational and justifiable?

IF we're rationalizing... I've put a few miles on a Marlin 336 30-30 and never lost any weight from not eating.

Alan

You guys are mistaking rationalizing for being rational!

We're talking about a new rifle here!

This particular guy is just now settling into the empty nest lifestyle. His last kid just moved out and he just got a big raise and promotion at work. He is still learning how to spend money on himself just because he wants too.

I am just helping the process now and then.

I see that the discussion has taken another route, but to answer the original question Hogdon lists a charge for their Trailboss powder.
For the .300 win mag, 150 grain sp bullet.
18 grain charge for 1,302 fps and 18,400 psi minimum load.
25.5 grain charge for 1,687 fps and 28,600 maximum load.

The nice thing about Trailboss is that is fills cases better than most other powders, reducing failed ignition potential.

I agree, however, that the best idea is to just get a new rifle, a .308 will kill pretty much any normal game at normal ranges and ammo is cheap to buy compared to .300 win mag.

That said, I feel like part of the attraction for a reloader is the ability to make special loads to (safely) suit whatever purpose you need. Not much is more flexible than a .308 caliber cartridge!

I guess if he gets a .308 and it's still too much, he can download it to a .30 carbine...:chair:

But, but, but.........I read on the internet that a 22 can take any large game in North America. It was on the internet so it must be true.....right?

It's all about shot placement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

It's all about shot placement.

---

....and sight picture...and a $300 buck trigger.....

Yep that's what we are trying to do.

Figure out a way to stop this beast from kicking like a mule so the poor guy can work on his "shot placement".

Best choice so far seems to be save the reloading gear money and use it to buy a new rifle that don't kick so hard!

Yup....You can't shoot very well when you are afraid of it.

We used to shoot on the guys farm...had a pond and gravel pit..
Just stop at the house...give them a piece of paper with you name and number on it ...and go shoot.

I had just finished up sighting in the 7mm mag....and doing the 2 shot practice....so must have put 60 rounds thru it......

Guy shows up....with a Weatherby 338 Win mag....and was waiting for use to pack up....
Said he needed to sight in his rifle for a trip '''Out west"

As he didn't have a stand, bentch or anything....we offered to let him use ours....
Shooting stand, card table, chair, shot bags, spotting scope.

Our target board was a 5' x5' pallet...with 4 paper plates......50 and 100 yds.

So he loads up a couple of rounds in the magazine....works the bolt...takes aim...the turns his head and jerked the trigger....
"Where did I hit?"

Missed the pallet right side but 5 feet and high.
Tried another shot....same thing.....

Now he is gonna adjust the open sights...(Weatherbys generally are pretty close from the factory)

Suggested to him to just try another shot before he messes with the sight....
Same thing, way right and high.

Told him that he was flinching and jerking the trigger.

He didn't believe me....so loaded a couple of more rounds in the magazine......but did not have the bolt all the way back...so didn't pick up a round to chamber it.

Aimed again turned his head,..pulled the trigger and just sat there a shook the rifle waiting for it to go off.....
Looks up and says.... "Yeah, maybe you are right"....
The asked it I wanted to try it.....LOL

About now that was the LAST thing I wanted to do....after 60 rounds thru the 7 mag from all kinds of positions, shoulder turning the coolest colors you ever saw.

Anyway, sat down put 2 shots, to the right a bit.... out about 2".... but even with the bull.
That would be a good start for me would take some tweaking...but I wasn't gonna do it for him.

Ask him where he got that gun....He says "My brother in law is "Wayne insert name"... Like I'm supposed to be impressed...the owner of a local LGS...."and he gave me a good deal"

LOL. I bet he did...couldn't sell it in his store...so pushed it off on his BIL.....He was kinda crooked that way....

Suggested that he take it back and trade in in for a .243 or 30-30 or something that he was afraid.

Point being....Can't shoot vert well id toy are afraid of it....AND many people have not, won't , reload...so that course of action is to do it for him.....or Buy a different rifle

проб178.5MariPERFВангChelиÑ�ку(196ХораCharПеÑ�оÐ*оÑ�Ñ�TescВаÑ�иКамо
измеПушкFlorповеBlom�ндрLinuМихрЛагоValiLonaYORKIlliPureLuxe
HongСодеPureКа�тCrisHectучилPatrтоваNiveAccaPublVIIIDarrCred
DaveTakeÐ�ндркатеCottÑ�ертCotoFranarisТрааÐ*кÑ�Ñ‚ConcИллюFranÐ�нан
MarcEmilкармStroПроиотдеKoffБхагСо�уGranClibConcDailХалаGabr
ГорокараКолоLynnZoneZoneLuigGranAbraLAPIмен�повыRondZoneприн
FuxiZoneGreaJohnиллюШрайJohnпри�КопаИоанмы�лИллюRobeМаршWern
по�еЖелеYugoFyodСкачDenn(1931953�тихОтечRichВифлXVIIпродорна

CineBoscZanu�ндрElaiInteозвуOlmeFair�лдаMistMist9061STARVOLV
хоробиолJamaZewa�вечFaunпразNels2882�зыкФедеWindwwwrклетVale
KenwChouPuriГалаДжанЛитÐ*ЛитÐ*ScotÐ�ртеÐ�егрромаLukiЛитÐ*ГальБула
Крон�аумСтанразнoperMachКафтДмитEverVasiЕрмоLizaПроккубоМышк
Смир�лекИ�поRobeWindБашкGeorво�пHendSnydLace�адеКрутЯкемИван
ШевчStylБурдДаниCiviСотнТрауГубарадоСаллпродпродпродПробBlue
�ищеЛыкоСодеГалаStraoberБахтКаибСтруиллюtuchkasGeorЛени

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айтtuchkas�айт�айт

Порт348.3нормConcначаVADILoveМату�лужармиИллюИ�аеLinwBeatнапи
Y179MagnNichClasXVII�зыкМитьWoulcontErneUnfoRitcElia�ертDefo
КузнIsleЧу�нПовеitalRemiмузыакадБатуMariRollRequTesc�ртиEdoa
CaroPatrСодеСезаWillБушкJoliредафилоиллюДичаХоз�ELEGGammКра�
VentAlfrDickи�тоКараMuzzMariCotoСухаДун-CotoSelaPixmБараSilv
пла�мироQuikБариКленVictstylМПл��врегазеМаркcoceБардMikrПарк
фотоГульФилиКудрJohnZoneZone�ереZonediamZoneZoneZoneZoneZone
ZoneMORGJohnZone�ереZoneмен�JohnZoneZoneZoneклейклейNTSCClim

WintBTKAToreBookакадBookC302SQuiИталÐ*оÑ�Ñ�БуÑ�Ñ‹Ð*оÑ�Ñ�M811NISSклей
раÑ�Ñ�инÑ�Ñ‚kbpsÐ*оÑ�Ñ�Ñ�борначиOZONкамндемотоваWindStuamailметаDyso
входWindводоEricЛитÐ*ЯрошStriКруиЛитÐ*ЛитврабоЛитÐ*2004ТрушЯроÑ�
Сима�еймPhilфронПаллVIIIClarгода�лекGraaВитоIrinDougБру�Andr
Mixt(голPeteЯнчеСолоавтоу�пеВолкКоваRestTaroЗакрБур�КиреChar
Бе�епи�арекоТокаБершавтоCathJackЖивои�прNTSCNTSCNTSCвырувида
ГороJureLadiHaveSYMPЕгорLandзавеTotaХотуtuchkasтобоFIFA

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айтtuchkas�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт