Working on your own vehicle illegal?

Working on your own vehicle illegal?

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-for...160000229.html

Yeah, I know....sometimes that stuff does kinda makes you want a EMP.......so the old Jeep c-5 will be the only vehicle running...LOL

It's the trend of things to come. Next, it will be appliances, mowers even your house if it is linked to a computer. If I'm just "borrowing" my car long term I wonder if Akia Toyoda will make the payments? Hmmmm. Maybe I should give him a call....from my car.

Would not affect me at all since I gave up on doing any engine work sometime in the late 1990s.

I have been chasing a simple vacuum leak in the Cherokee for two years and still have not found it!

In fact, the last serious work I did on a vehicle was replacement of the three computer modules on my 1993 Ranger pickup. I did that myself and still had to take it to a "mechanic" for the final tweeking of the parts to get it to run as well as before.

My biggest automotive repair challenge now is finding a mechanic with a good lap top computer so he can properly diagnose the problem and get straight to the solution. The most important piece of equipment in the shop is now made by Apple!

.....and it's all proprietary information......
You can't even get a schematic for the fuses on the Ford truck.

Hey Hunter do you remember back in the day when we could stuff a Mopar Hemi into a '56 Chevy and the most difficult electronic decision was how to wire the one lead from the alternator to the wiring harness?

And the only thing EMP could do was mess up the radio signal if you were not using shielded spark plug cables!

Mine was how to wire a '54 Chevy from 6 volt to 12 volt for the V-8.......

Truthfully, I don't work on my trucks these days anyway.....can't without all the computer stuff.

Manual for DW car says "There are 7 thing under the hood that are yellow....If it isn't yellow, you have no business messing with it."

There is a guy down the road that has a 49 Chevy one ton flatbed sitting by the barn that I would love to buy and turn into a rat rod truck. The body has a haze of rust patina bit is still solid. The old 215 is locked up but the frame is still good. Thing is I'm just to old and broken down to start a project like that at this point.

Ten years ago I would have considered it a summer hobby project and done it all outside under the big tree.

Now I would have to hire someone to do 90% of the work.

I hear ya.........LOL

we can still do some things, i just replaced the alternator on my pick up, they are getting more and more complicated all the time though. Too much electronics for my liking I have a 2010 Tacoma, sometimes i wish i had my early 90"s Toyota xtra cab. much easier to work on

What the companies want to do is not allow any work on vehicles by the owner....by law.

I know some people that should not be allowed to own tools let alone actually work on a car.:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desert Rat!

I know some people that should not be allowed to own tools let alone actually work on a car.:laugh:

---

Rodger that........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desert Rat!

I know some people that should not be allowed to own tools let alone actually work on a car.:laugh:

---

On the flip side, I know many techs at shops that shouldn't be allowed near a car. I change my own oil just because every time I take it in for simple stuff like that, the person screws it up. A few months ago, I had to take a car in for a recall. I didn't realize it because they didn't say anything or have signs posted, but they do a complimentary car wash on every vehicle serviced. Guess what happened to the rear bumper cover that was barely hanging on. Yep, ended up dragging it home......

Still upset about that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natertot

On the flip side, I know many techs at shops that shouldn't be allowed near a car. I change my own oil just because every time I take it in for simple stuff like that, the person screws it up. A few months ago, I had to take a car in for a recall. I didn't realize it because they didn't say anything or have signs posted, but they do a complimentary car wash on every vehicle serviced. Guess what happened to the rear bumper cover that was barely hanging on. Yep, ended up dragging it home......

Still upset about that one.

---

Especially self proclaimed mechanics .

Join the EFF! So many people have no inkling of the degree to which corporations have managed to stack the deck. Learn how you can fight back and preserve you rights to work on your own car, burn a CD of your favorite music (that you already paid for), and modify gear that you already own.

I know when I want to pirate music I always buy a tractor to do it.

In seriousness though; when the DMCA came around and we raised hell the public was made to feel that we were nit-picking at best and criminals at worst. The fact is that this, and most every copyright law posed since deliberately prohibits innovation, promotes monopoly and is continually used to target the end user, most of whom are not even in a position to redistribute anything covered by copyright before or after this law. But then these are the people who needed it to be illegal e.g. to distribute your own patches (containing no other party's IP) for security vulnerabilities they intend never to patch themselves.

Yeah, the DMCA was set up in such a way as to be reviewed every three years and "tweaked". But the reality is that both political parties are corporatists; every tweak has had the effect of reducing the ability of people to freely use a product they paid for and increased a corporations ability to stifle any attempt at change or innovation. They've fought tooth and nail to minimize the rights of the consumer to use a product however they see fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter63

.....and it's all proprietary information......
You can't even get a schematic for the fuses on the Ford truck.

---

Go to your local library and see if they have access to AllData.com library version. If so, you can get schematics from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

the reality is that both political parties are corporatists; every tweak has had the effect of reducing the ability of people to freely use a product they paid for and increased a corporations ability to stifle any attempt at change or innovation.

---

I suppose an artist's copyright or their ability to earn a living should not be considered. It must be those evil corporations again. You do know that single owner, mom and pop shops can also be corporations, right? If it weren't for corporations and free enterprise this country would look a great deal like Russia or China.

The DMCA was set up because this country's moral compass is going to heck in a hand basket. Everyone wants something for nothing and they couldn't resist downloading music and movies for free. Congratulations, we earned the DMCA.

My little one man pest control operation is incorporated. Does that make me a corporatist?

https://thefinchandpea.files.wordpre...-i-knew-it.jpg


You couldn't glow red and not be evil.

Just remember....although I am an assassin for hire, sometimes I kill for the pure pleasure of it.:innocent:

I'm sorry Rick but ratoinal basis does not make a piece of legislation responsible. It's trivially easy to find responsible justification to act in response to a problem. It's much harder to draft a law which resolves the problem, does not attempt to do more and is sufficiently strong and narrow to be effective and not have further reaching, detrimental effects even when that is what one is trying to do. My view of DMCA is far more cynical.

Let's try paralleling this with gun crime or with accessibility of firearms to prohibited persons where the result is assault weapon bans and periodic pushes for universal registration, firearm safety certification, etc. Do we still attempt to conflate basis, legislative intent and acceptance of deliberate or collateral infringement by the same standard?

I understand that you didn't in fact justify the bill as much as correlate the piracy and p2p explosion to the response, so please don't feel I'm making assumptions about your intent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

[/COLOR]

I suppose an artist's copyright or their ability to earn a living should not be considered. It must be those evil corporations again. You do know that single owner, mom and pop shops can also be corporations, right? If it weren't for corporations and free enterprise this country would look a great deal like Russia or China.

The DMCA was set up because this country's moral compass is going to heck in a hand basket. Everyone wants something for nothing and they couldn't resist downloading music and movies for free. Congratulations, we earned the DMCA.

---

Sure, that was the stated intent but it was quickly perverted. No one complaining about legitimate copyright protections. If you write a book then you should reap the benefits. But most of the other stuff is not so clear. If you buy a compact disc, is the disc yours? What if you want to rip it and listen to it on your computer. Is that legal? Should it be legal? Some of the stuff if baffling. For example a few years back a company made a device called "Kalediscope". It allowed you to rip your own legally purchased DVDs and store them in the devices internal server to watch back on your own TV. They paid licensing and the applicable royalties to all the relevant IP owners and the hardware guys also signed off on it. But when they brought it to market, all those same guys they paid changed their minds and filed a DMCA lawsuit! Just cracking certain encryption is illegal, no matter why you do it. Talk about your lack of moral compass! Is there any reason you should be barred from decrypting or decompiling something you legally purchased, for your own personal use?

Worse yet, something can be fair use under the DMCA and illegal a few years later. Lots of things that used to be considered legal fair use have been made illegal later on.

I agree the moral compass is off, but it's not off in the way you suggest! DMCA is being abused, and the abuse is reliably coming from the guys with best paid lawyers.

To be clear we're not talking piracy here- that's a straw man. We never needed the DMCA to stop that, it's been illegal for decades. We're talking about the abuse of ELUs, locked items forcing you into proprietary technologies and lack of choice. It's the definition of anti-competitive markets.

A last example; say you buy your car from Zoomie Motors, a 2016 Zapster. Five years down the road the Zapster is discontinued and Zoomie folds. Someone buys their IP for pennies on the dollar. Even though Zoomie no longer exists whoever owns the IP may be able to make it criminal for you to hack your computer to fix your busted Zapster. Yes, this is something that really happens now.

My reference was only to the DMCA legislation and I'm certainly not justifying it. Only pointing out that our lack of moral compass (stealing copyright material) lead to its inception. Whether it is or is not a good law is another subject entirely. To see corporations like Ford and Toyota taking advantage of it come as no surprise.

A corporation has one/two roles depending on size. The first is to make a profit. The second, if they are structured with shareholders, is to provide a return to their shareholders as dividends. That can be done inside or outside of a moral culture. Whether we like it as a customer or not really isn't the issue. Protecting that position is a natural part of running the corporation. It will be up to the government through input from customers as to whether locking chip sets for example constitutes an unfair business practice. My suggestion, if you are against it, is to let the Federal Trade Commission know how you feel.

There are a lot of techy type people out there that can connect a laptop to a car or motorcycle and go through the codes and adjust air fuel ratios as well as many other parameters. The manufacturers just want to put them out of business and make more money! ASE certified mechanics are trained to run diagnostics on almost any new car in lots of Auto Tech schools around the country! I guess technical training will soon be illegal to!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamewolf

Go to your local library and see if they have access to AllData.com library version. If so, you can get schematics from there.

---

Thanks I did not know about this resource.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildthang

I guess technical training will soon be illegal to!

---

Or not.....

"While the act could hypothetically lock customers out of key safety features, it would still allow owners the ability to repair other areas of the vehicle’s onboard computer as they see fit. It’s a slim compromise, but one that may be more closely based in reality."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamewolf

Go to your local library and see if they have access to AllData.com library version. If so, you can get schematics from there.

---

Haven't made a trip to the Library yet.....did check out the site.
Seems you can get a vehicle specific pay subscription.

As it turned out a member here, (at the time) worked for a dealer, loaded images of the schematic, form his closed system and E-mailed them to me......at risk of losing his job......

So the whole deal of a owner/customer being cut out of the loop....has already started....and will get worst, be it officially legal/illegal.

I can see a time here private ownership will end....and you can only lease of rent a "Unit"....be it able to keep at home or call for a Unit.

кра�120.5ReprCHAPСиннЛопа�уде1953RoseFiskЖадаTescParm�танюнке
БурлÐ*Ñ‹Ñ‚Ñ…GerdСодеOzanотдыÐ*атюВороВороValiИталTescSkinÑ�ертHugo
ГиндThomAhavКолеПервJameЕвгрBrun�ертPantNivePierдопоGaryCred
SharStefLycrнаруAndrFlowJeweOmsashinпедатворMaybфотоOutsВа�и
ShanMatiручеCircмолнза�тWareЖел��одеUFOrVisiClyd�торFiskJame
Svenчи�тXVIIОлдаZoneZoneЗаниSwarFredZoneзоложивыMiyoZoneСоло
SwarZoneЕфреSlimBriaИльиCathпредФролДудн�илуСодеMondFaunCont
и�куJarmwestFyodПлутЗимиакаф1953BeveОтечСокоукраДаниFLACфарф

EmotBoscwwwnAmazКитаBookLexuPostÐ*оÑ�Ñ�8900TubuЖавоВаÑ�иMAZDуказ
купюMedlReikМо�кТек�у�тризденепоТаракартWindwwwrПоноBOOMVite
happClorChoiКущеXenoводиПопоTranЛитÐ*СтурÐ*ыбиТолмГригунивМарт
ПавлШеноÐ*озеChalдороXVIIQuikÐ�икооконBarbМароLeonакаддефилюди
Chesрабо�фанJennБукрКузнМо�кплан�лекYokoофицФишеавтоБондКузн
вы�тПапрМикоСлезСоковозрЗаха�тихИоно�габFLACFLACFLACпо�топти
ЕринEvanTerrWind�ракТверавтоМатвзадаИллюtuchkas�иконача

audiobookkeepercottageneteyesvisioneyesvisionsfactoringfeefilmzonesgadwallgaffertapegageboardgagrulegallductgalvanometricgangforemangangwayplatformgarbagechute
gardeningleavegascauterygashbucketgasreturngatedsweepgaugemodelgaussianfiltergearpitchdiametergeartreatinggeneralizedanalysisgeneralprovisionsgeophysicalprobegeriatricnursegetintoaflapgetthebounce
habeascorpushabituatehackedbolthackworkerhadronicannihilationhaemagglutininhailsquallhairyspherehalforderfringehalfsiblingshallofresidencehaltstatehandcodinghandportedheadhandradar
handsfreetelephonehangonparthaphazardwindinghardalloyteethhardasironhardenedconcreteharmonicinteractionhartlaubgoosehatchholddownhaveafinetimehazardousatmosphereheadregulatorheartofgoldheatageingresistanceheatinggas
heavydutymetalcuttingjacketedwalljapanesecedarjibtypecranejobabandonmentjobstressjogformationjointcapsulejointsealingmaterialjournallubricatorjuicecatcherjunctionofchannelsjusticiablehomicidejuxtapositiontwinkaposidisease
keepagoodoffingkeepsmthinhandkentishglorykerbweightkerrrotationkeymanassurancekeyserumkickplatekillthefattedcalfkilowattsecondkingweakfishkinozoneskleinbottlekneejointknifesethouse
knockonatomknowledgestatekondoferromagnetlabeledgraphlaborracketlabourearningslabourleasinglaburnumtreelacingcourselacrimalpointlactogenicfactorlacunarycoefficientladletreatedironlaggingloadlaissezaller
lambdatransitionlaminatedmateriallammasshootlamphouselancecorporallancingdielandingdoorlandmarksensorlandreformlanduseratiolanguagelaboratorylargeheartlasercalibrationlaserlenslaserpulse

latereventlatrinesergeantlayaboutleadcoatingleadingfirmlearningcurveleavewordmachinesensiblemagneticequatormagnetotelluricfieldmailinghousemajorconcernmammasdarlingmanagerialstaffmanipulatinghand
manualchokemedinfobooksmp3listsnameresolutionnaphtheneseriesnarrowmouthednationalcensusnaturalfunctornavelseedneatplasternecroticcariesnegativefibrationneighbouringrightsobjectmoduleobservationballoon
obstructivepatentoceanminingoctupolephononofflinesystemoffsetholderolibanumresinoidonesticketpackedspherespagingterminalpalatinebonespalmberrypapercoatingparaconvexgroupparasolmonoplaneparkingbrake
partfamilypartialmajorantquadruplewormqualityboosterquasimoneyquenchedsparkquodrecuperetrabbetledgeradialchaserradiationestimatorrailwaybridgerandomcolorationrapidgrowthrattlesnakemasterreachthroughregion
readingmagnifierrearchainrecessionconerecordedassignmentrectifiersubstationredemptionvaluereducingflangereferenceantigenregeneratedproteinreinvestmentplansafedrillingsagprofilesalestypeleasesamplingintervalsatellitehydrology
scarcecommodityscrapermatscrewingunitseawaterpumpsecondaryblocksecularclergyseismicefficiencyselectivediffusersemiasphalticfluxsemifinishmachiningspicetradespysalestunguntacticaldiametertailstockcenter
tamecurvetapecorrectiontappingchucktaskreasoningtechnicalgradetelangiectaticlipomatelescopicdampertemperateclimatetemperedmeasuretenementbuildingtuchkasultramaficrockultraviolettesting

прик205.3AQQABettSterHallJeweФлагТрофJewePaulКоваХоруДемиPrak
ShowBlacБыкодругErnsJohnСергMidnбытиGeneProgMaurRenePatrЖере
RighWillGuajСавиGiorLogoи�куГромСуимПанфOzdoPatrLati�ртиGuil
БочаGillПаврAndrAgatВыгоТанк�оздScotЖикаи�куAlexMODOPapuОлюн
ТрубSlatXVIIСодегражKarlPushÑ�ертÐ*убаPhilÐ*удыSelaWestRadiтеле
мелоСипоElegFeliMantБудбWrunСтепБориHerrСодеубийИллюGoodbest
Ð*лиаJustSFraШтейтеатZoneзакаZoneZoneÑ�ереZoneZoneZoneZoneZone
ZoneZoneChetChetZoneZoneмен�TereMORGZoneZoneфарфклейме�цStah

цветVestMielMoto0802Z56-ГрибImagChicпла�0110Mist8955ДжейNISS
шагочитаInst�ртиOuapRussThelKotl1000�зыкОмарСунгExpeКитаBork
BoscMexxÐ*азмнапрЛитÐ*БрÑ�нЛитÐ*ЛитÐ*КондЛитÐ*WindÑ�ебеЛитÐ*MicrБерм
XVIIЧе�тКузнAldoEditKiroRolfСмирлитеSiouJeweрабо�тудIsabLCAC
WindМатвModeгрупШалазавеСмиркороFeliHenr�ики�лекБергФищуСоко
ФормÐ*аутИллюЛыкоЯÑ�умWindЦветавтоSwamСкурмеÑ�цмеÑ�цмеÑ�цWindСоде
ШорымузыHystПашнFionМедвравнБараXVII�логtuchkasArbaКарг

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт

�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт
�айт�айт�айт�айт�айтtuchkas�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт�айт