iron sites for a pellet rifle
Tax return time is upon us. I was thinking about getting my kids a pellet rifle that would serve as a training tool for precision shooting. The reason I want a pellet rifle and not a .22lr is ammo availability, cost of shooting, and location limitations. When I was in High School in San Antonio, I was in the JROTC program and for a year was a member of their rifle team. We used very nice pellet rifles with competition peep sites. I learned a LOT about precision shooting. Of course, non of it was ballistics, wind, distance...etc that you would learn from a long range sniper course. It was pretty much just trigger pull, breathing...etc. I want to teach these basics to my kids. So my question...where do I start looking for sites like these? Also, what are some viable rifle options. Most of the local big box stores have pellet rifles that need glass. I don't want to use glass. Anyways, I am at the beginning of the search phase, so any guidance is welcome.
fun with air, and great teaching tools
To reiterate what everyone already said when my kids were very young I started them out with tiny little daisy BB guns that were the right size and weight for them, then moved up in size and weight (also recurve bows etc.) Most of the scopes that come with low to medium priced air guns are junk as are the open sights (aka iron sights). Amazon is fine but if a local gun shop or even Cabelas (a personal friend is manager of gun counter at one of those so I must plug that place) should be able to recommend the best one for your needs and special order it for you, possibly even price match, though I would not feel right asking for that due to the service.
Which pellets offer greatest accuracy etc. BBs are terrible, plastic soft-air and paint guns are a complete waste of money and time IMO.
One thing that is not necessary but I found helpful was to mount a cheap laser sight to the trigger guard, align it close but not exactly on. This gives me an idea how steady the kid is holding the rifle as the red dot "swims" around the target. Is he/she squeezing and breathing properly or jerking trigger. It was also fun with some buddies at a father daughter campout after the girls went to sleep, we had many adult beverages, had paper targets on cord with wooden clothes pins. Every time a guy (mostly me) would go over to pin up a new target you can imagine where the red dot would wander. Lots of laughs. Small BB guns making guys (mostly me) jump… Ha Ha Ha
Night vision hunting with air rifle
Thread drifting a bit but if you want to fool with it you can replace the LEDs in a very high powered flashlight with infrared LEDs (use a precision soldering iron) then attach a camcorder with night vision behind your iron sights or scope (use duct tape and/or velcro) to do some night hunting of varmints such as rats or opossums etc.
Here is a link to a fun video from the "AirRifle" site I mentioned above.
http://thebestairrifle.com/air-rifle...-night-vision/
When I was a kid, my friends and I just held flashlights next to the stocks of our guns and took photos after, but this live video of hunting and rats jumping from head and neck shots is much more fun. Or gross, whatever.
Crosman and Benjamin same but different
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finallyME
I have never heard of the Benjamin rifles....so thanks. Also, thanks for the link with the comparisons. Learning a lot here.
Crosman and Benjamin are owned by the same parent company effectively but aimed at different market segments more or less, this much market overlap make it complicated. Read this history:
http://www.crosman.com/discover/cros...ory-of-crosman
Years ago I thought Daisy Outdoors and Gamo were at one time owned by the same parent company but I searched and could not find info on this. These companies are bought and sold and reorganized quite often. It is very confusing.
open sight PCP air gun or competition guns, night sights etc
Some medium level air guns with "iron sights" (open sights for us old coots) and also PCP repeater which I like for "hunting wats" as Rick says preferably down by the garbage dump. Real sneaky like so as to fill the gunny sack full.
http://www.topairgun.com/repeating-pcp-air-rifles
If all that pays well you can save up enough to upgrade to some proper lead spitters and shop from this list of competition air rifles:
http://www.topairgun.com/competition-air-rifles
Note that even Daisy Avanti makes a relatively higher end competition rifle but you would never find it at you local Wal-Mart.
Also I would never use any of these to shoot at fussy tailed tree rats in my front or back yard because about 5 years ago some "bleeding heart" whatevers passed an ordinance in my suburban city prohibiting the use all but soft air (plastic BB) guns. So quiet and cheap air rifles are key for me. Blowpipe are still OK. Most 0.22 Cal air rifles are almost as loud as a 0.22 firearm even with the silencer device on the end of the muzzle. FYI.
BTW when "hunting wats" or something more delicious for survival dinner here is a source for night sights:
http://www.beamq.com/laser-rifle-sights-c-71.html
Or replace head light or flashlight LEDs yourself and attach small IR camcorder behind iron sights as I mentioned before. Here is a source for 10 LED at about 50 cents each:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...3fcaArru8P8HAQ
Edit: BeamQ also sells high powered infrared LEDs that are much more dangerous. Use safety glasses for that are especially designed for this if you use IR laser sights and use extreme caution. People have permanently damaged their vision with these. Common sense is not enough this is VERY DANGEROUS! light is powerful and not visible. I recommend regular IR flashlights and IR camcorders over lasers.
I hear a joke coming from Rick about a Mother Goose rhyme...
Why air rifle may be better for targets and small game/pests than 22LR
When at Wal-Mart I talked to the older gentleman at the gun counter who was very helpful but had his facts little off (heck I often do myself.) So my ideal survival gun for small game is a .22LR/410 shotgun combo which can be very lightweight and cheap (Rossi "Match Pair" there was $133), but there are some obvious disadvantages of these over a relatively high powered air rifle (small caliber, not .45 etc).
Last 2 years or so this ammo has been difficult to find. Even when my good friend at the Cabela's gun counter Text Messages me that they received some and I drop everything and rush over there to stand in line, but there is a limit on how much I can purchase. Loading my own as the other thread here at WS discussed is a PITA. Then there is cost compared to air gun pellets. Purchased in bulk .22LR typically cost 3 to 40 cents per round while pellets cost about 1.2 to 2.5 cent each. So if you and your family do a lot of target shooting (to be prepared) and go thru 1000 rounds each month or year this could easily be the cost of a medium priced PCP repeater air rifle or Savage Arms Model 42. Obviously the air rifle will come out cheaper over a year or two for many people who hunt pests or varmints, or target practice often.
Review of Savage Arms Model 42 for those not familiar with it:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/s...del-42-review/
Rossi matched pair:
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=113
Rossi was manufacturer of my first barrel break pellet gun, I shot many crazy cow/pig feed bag eating "Wats" wit it.
Rossi makes cheap but functional weapons, IMO.
If you can find a M6 Scout great, I am impressed.
3 visually impaired mice and IR laser sights, a fictional account
Three Visually Impaired Mice (Mother Goose rhyme poorly paraphrased that doesn’t rhyme).
Three diminutive rodents invaded the domicile of an agrarian couple. As each tiny varmint poked its head out of apertures they had gnawed in the couple’s shelter an infrared laser diode emitting a wavelength of 780 nanometers at 200 milliwatts seared the retina of each one of their eyes. This enabled the agrarian woman to sever their caudal appendages with her laser-beam-welder. Then they were unable to maintain equilibrium on the structural roof trusses of the domicile and the agrarian couple’s Felis catus captured them as they fell and thus they perished, Pb free.
Perhaps I have been reading too many scientific photonics papers. But this was mostly inspired by BeamQ dot com. If you require a Google Translate from Tech Nerdish into English one cannot be provided, sorry.
Also inspired by all the YouTube videos of NiteSite NS200 owners hunting dirty rotten WATs in their pig barns:
http://youtu.be/QW7Ht6IFoLE
5 Attachment(s)
Price and availability may be better in Texas, also OK, LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hunter63
Yeah was gonna say.....must have been w a while back.......$250 +/- seems to be normal sale price lately for the Rossi combo's....last couple of years.
This is kinda a stretch for sights on air rifles.........
I agree Hunter there are many options for sights on air rifles, we covered many but not all of them.
However, just to be sure I was not way off base I went back to that Wal-Mart to check on price and availability because the OP was concerned about that in his original post. I agree with him I think air guns have many advantages over 22LR firearms but these small game fire arms can be very cheap, simple to clean and fix and operate compared to equivalent air guns so should never be completely ruled out unless you live somewhere they and ammo are just not available for example.
SOOOO
Yes for only $133 it was a 0.410 shotgun only Rossi without the 0.22 Cal rifle barrel (one in stock) but they also had one Matched Pair (0.22 Cal and 0.410 gauge dual barrel) in stock for $149 at the Wal-Mart about 4 miles from me.
I also checked the Academy they had 4 Rossi Matched Pairs in stock for $169.99 each, and the Savage Model 42 22LR/410 for $359.99 which I personally prefer. But Rossi is probably better for a young child as their first rifle or for ultra light backpacking etc. Depends on your requirements.
At a local independent Gun Shop (not a big box store) they had the Ruger 10/22 takedown Syn stock for $339 and wood for $345 these I really like but they don't have the 410 SG. Also everyplace I went had 0.22LR except Wal-Mart but as to be expected the quantities were limited. I only bought 100 rounds for $8.99 before sales tax, not greedy or planing to go target shooting soon. I will post some photos for those doubters, but you could call Wal-Mart gun counters in Texas and Oklahoma if you think I am lying.
Personally I think the OPs idea of target practice with an air rifle with iron sights is great. Happy target plinking.
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Hopefully the resolution is high enough for you to see that the price tag was printed on October 16, 2014 not a few years ago, fellas. Come live in Texas where there is plenty of ammo and the price of firearms has not been jacked up by you know who.
To assist you kyratshooter I called the "Farm Creek" Wal-Mart in Louisville, Kentucky (502) 231-4800. Their price for the Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 is $167 but unlike most stores in Texas they don't have any in stock and don't plan to. But for only $114 they have some of these:
Attachment 10534
So if your kid gets startled by a rabbit with large scary teeth and drops their rifle this hi-vis color will make it easier for them to locate their rifle in the brush. Personally I was taught to never drop my firearm or set it down but things may be different in KY. BTW don't use that gel on these firearms. LOL
To assist Hunter63 I called the Wal-Mart in Shawano, WI and talked to Ron who told me that they did indeed have the Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 in stock and the price was $199. So if you or a friend's kid needs one of these call Ron at 715-524-5980 and ask if he can hold it for you.
Rather than one of these .22 rifles I would recommend something like a Savage Rascal that comes with peep sights. If you are a member of a hunting, shooting club or boy scout troop or talk to mangers of a BSA campground you may be able to get in on a group buy and save some money with a discount.
Many models from many manufacturers to choose from but the Savage Arms Rascal youth is typically about $180 retail but not that difficult to find (IN TEXAS) for about $130 or less with group discounts.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...savage-rascal/
A-Rifles under $200 with Peep Sight added
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finallyME
Maybe I will give the irons a try before looking for a set of peep sites. I don't think I am ready to pay $300+ for a pellet rifle yet. That eliminates some of the more accurate rifles with peep sites pre-installed.
You have probably already read the front splash pages and info pages of several air rifle sites that have good info that discuss the various types of rifles and what they are best for but this list of air rifles under $300 is good to consider.
http://www.topairgun.com/riflesunder300
One warning is that an excellent PCP rifle like the Benjamin Discovery .22 generally works better with a compressed air tank or expensive hand pump or lots of CO2 so the cost is actually well above $300. Also IMHO as long as the rifle has rails that will accept a good quality but affordable peep sight (after market) and the front sight is reasonably good and works with that peep sight I would not be overly concerned about the iron sights and scopes that come with the rifle under about $500 or certainly under $200, these will be barely functional for backyard casual plinking of soda cans. But that is just my personal opinion. My biggest concern is that a set of peep sights fits it well FOR SURE, possibly even order from one retailer with them already installed. Retailer may question your motives, but the point is for kids to learn to use and appreciate peep sights. Personally I find most gun shops, counters and even online retailers very helpful yet laid back, totally different than most retail these days.
example:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Ve...4_Peep_Sight/5
Air Venturi Williams 64 Peep Sight $40 should work with Crosman/Benjamin 392 ($170 typical or less)
If you are like me you call them up and negotiate a $10 off bundle with free express shipping etc, price match with others etc. but I am a little extreme.
Benjamin 392/397 without scope only about $140 at Wal-Mart if you can find it there, and 397 0.177" (4.5mm) cheaper pellets if that is an issue for you, i.e. just target practice not knock down power, tear up flesh etc for relatively larger game.
TX bit warm, but does have tall peaks, compared to Eastern USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finallyME
There are a lot of things I liked about Texas, but there were no mountains and not much public land. Of course there is also humidity and fire ants...but I digress. :)
I do miss Rudy's BBQ and my wife always craves Blue Bell.
I spent much of my childhood in a place even more hot and humid so Texas seems fairly mild to me. Cool that you could find some good quality air rifles, many of the Benjamin/Sheridan are made in the USA, not sure about that one.
Also most of the mountains in Texas are far to the west but 5 are over 8000 feet and another 5 over 7000 feet, taller than any of those little weathered hills east of the Mississippi river the Easterners call mountains. Silly hillbillies. Oh I'm only joking don't flame me.
Google Tallest+mountains+in+texas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalupe_Peak
Tallest peaks/mountains east of Mississippi River:
http://getawaytips.azcentral.com/10-...ippi-5509.html
My grandfather was more like you, he immigrated from NE Germany (Prussia) from NYC got a job on railroads about 1900 went to Texas because there were many Germans there. Said it was WAY TOOO HOT!!! (no AC back then, had to sleep sweating like a race horse all night long.) Homesteaded near Fargo, ND saw beginning of dust bowl coming sold land to city, they actually built a horse race track on it. He moved to a small German village near Edmonton, Alberta and homesteaded for a second time there. My dad was born, grew up, said it was WAY TOOOO COLD!!!! Moved to South America. I was born and spent most of my childhood there, said it was WAY TOOOO HOT and HUMID moved to Texas, so it has been a long multigenerational journey around back to Texas. Now I enjoy AC when not camping.
How to find Air guns and firearms 4sale in any state
FYI if anyone needs to locate a Wal-Mart in their state that sells firearms or air rifles just Google or Bing search for it OBVIOUSLY!! Here is a helpful list that I found for Texas, but I also found this information very easily for Kentucky and Wisconsin. Also there are eBay equivalents for firearms and air guns such as "gun broker" "arms list" and many more that anyone who actually "hunts", competitively shoots and/or collects firearms would be well aware of. In fact if you had lived in Texas of decades and did not know this you would most likely be a %#!*# bleeding heart yankee and people would only be friendly to you here because we don't take these things personally and don't say what we really think directly to your face. Just keep you crazy "nanny state" views to ya self, thank you.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=373108
Edit: Assistance for KYrat
google: kentucky walmart firearms sale
Supercenter. 5130 Hinkleville Rd; Paducah, KY 42001; (270) 444-0066
Supercenter. 100 Walton Ave; Danville, KY 40422; (859) 236-9572
Supercenter. 7625 Doering Dr; Florence, KY 41042; (859) 282-8333
Supercenter. 150 Walton Ave; Bowling Green, KY 42104; (270) 781-7903
Supercenter. 7101 Cedar Springs Blvd; Louisville, KY 40291; (502) 231-4880
Ask for something in your price range like a Keystone Crickett typically $114 Nationwide
Or $95 from Keystone if you are an certified instructor but most instructors that I know would not want those.
Single shot .22LR
http://www.crickett.com/crickett_22_LR.php
As mentioned in comment #26 above the KY price for Rossi may be too high for you and for whatever reasons may not be in stock:
Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 is $167 at most Wal-Marts in Kentucky.
not picking a fight, shutting one down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kyratshooter
LOL !!!
I will buy all the Rossi matched pair sets you can find me at $133!!!
I don't even care what the calibers are, I'll take them.
The last set I bought cost me nearly $250.
I was taught at a very young age don't make a statement you cannot back up. Don't start a fight you cannot finish.
I never started a fight but I darn sure wanted to guarantee that my reputation for reliable facts was certain.
If you question me again be sure you have done your research.
Edit: What matters most to me is my reputation!!!
I am learning whose comments to just ignore thus the long understood term "trolling for newbies" and "Internet Troll" if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck it might be a duck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Competitive shooting links for finallyMe and others
finallyME I'm not sure the age of your kids or if they will still be interested in competitive shooting by the time they reach High School but here are some links that may help. Understandably you may buy and sell air guns and firearms may times before they reach that age but ideally you could buy some that are best to get them prepared for competition in 4H or jROTC and other tournaments. (personally my daughters started off strong, did well but lost interest, OH well, if I had put $1000 in good investments for every sport they started and quit they could go to Yale fully paid, no scholarships, exaggeration LOL.) Obviously good shooting skills is great for hunting and survival, or "Enemy at the gates".
USA shooting is a great organization but their webmaster has issues (I have nothing good to say so will not) there are links there to ALL of these other links but I will list them out for you because navigating USA shooting if you are not familiar is WAY confusing… enough said they really are good people, including webmaster who "bless his/her heart" just spew it out there sort of like me ;-) Browse around try not to get frustrated.
http://www.usashooting.org/about
CMP unfortunately may not have a big presence in Utah but for people in the Cleveland/Toledo, Ohio or Birmingham, Alabama it would be great. About price of very cheap bowling, discount movie, ice skating, but air gun for friends who don't have one is included $2 for kids to shoot. Great deal! Beats shooting GI Joes in backyard on fence rail! I have a funny story about that.
http://thecmp.org/air/cmp-marksmanship-centers/
4H shooting sports even if your kids are not old enough still contact the coordinator for your state, he/she may help you with discount on air gun and/or firearms and shooting range and discounts for it. I LOVE discounts!!!
http://www.4-hshootingsports.org
Utah 4-H Shooting Sports Cordinator (USU) at Logan, UT (453) 797-0930
[email protected]
or Richard Beard (453) 797-0573
[email protected]
NRA was the best place to teach hunter safety and shooting skills decades ago and still has very good programs today. Personally I ignore some of their political activities, try not to let that bother you, hopefully no one will dump this thread into a black hole because I listed them. They have great advice and programs on shooting, especially competitive shooting.
http://compete.nra.org/how-to-get-st...-to-start.aspx
Hope that helps, I have many good friends in competitive shooting whose kids earned some scholarship money for college, became better hunters (especially safer hunters.) And hopefully made their homes safer and in an absolutely worse case situation could survive better. Enjoy time with your kids.
BTW .22LR is not necessarily recommended for competitive shooting but once you get some contacts in the community these and more appropriate rounds and pellets should not be a problem if Utah is anything like Texas. Assuming you don't shoot more than about 500-1000 rounds per weekend like me. LOL
Edit: Had to take a call do real work, back now.
So finallyMe if Kevin, Richard or someone at Utah S University or a 4H or JROTC/CMP program from local High School gets back in touch with you (and I am fairly sure they will) be sure to ask about local shooting ranges for young kids and an instructor. Then follow up at home or where ever on what that instructor taught them. I am a trained instructor, have been instructed by excellent instructors and really believe in the value of it as I believe you said you do. The cost is generally not that much. Pays off for the rest of their life. Just my personal opinion.
