https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/scho...085288082.html
If this makes it up to my children's school, I will be having a chit chat with the board of education and the local police chief.
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https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/scho...085288082.html
If this makes it up to my children's school, I will be having a chit chat with the board of education and the local police chief.
But, but, but, what about tactical bacon? I mean...it's tactical. Proof positive that there is no shortage of stupid in this world. Duck and cover seems far more practical than fling the string beans.
"I want tomato soup to spearhead the attack. General Fusal, your carrots will cover the left flank while sweet peas cover the right. I want creamed corn held in reserve."
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...hitler-map.jpg
How about intruders can't get in the School in the first place......
And my Dad was right, empowering is just another word for delegation and shifting responsibility.
A wise man once said "Stupid is as stupid does" and man o man, this is stupid.
God forbid we arm staff with firearms! Although a few schools around me have instituted that in small numbers officially.
Another thing that kills me about this is that there is zero tolerance should a kid bring a harmless toy gun to school, but then the school is going to teach them (albeit poorly) on how to improvise weapons? As my dear aunt would say, "Oh sweeeeet baby Jesus!".
Perhaps a can of this would do?
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps60439914.jpg
My dad taught me to never bring a can of beans to a gunfight.
Splendid idea. I for one always have a can of soup in my bookbag for just such an occasion. But, really, what kind of parent sends their child to school without tactical canned goods? Surely the school board shouldn't have to teach them this....call the children's aid, that's what I say!
I'm not 100% against the idea.
If the kids (teenagers) are trained to the extent they can hit an intruder at classroom distance (know their abilities) and taught to hide and set up some sort of defense prior to tossing cans, it could slow down an attacker to the point of pushing him out of the area.
Lets face the facts, if someone enters a school shooting, they plan on killing people and putting up resistance to the attacker will slow them down and save lives. Granted it would be much better to have armed adults (teachers and or guards) to protect the kids but that does not seem to be an option at this school
As a retired career teacher I can make some valid input on this one.
You do not want to arm the average classroom teacher. It will not work. They are so ingrained with the liberal theology, especially teachers in the lower grades, that they can not be trained in tactical use of a firearm. One out of 1,000, maybe, but not even 1 out of 100 could transition into "defend the kids" mode.
They can hide the kids and secure the classroom within department guidelines but their basic move is lock the door, turn off the lights and tremble in fear. Many classroom do not even have locking doors.
They have been trained for their entire lifetime to be helpless prey with their primary defense tactic being to avoid eye contact, pretend the problem does not exist, and if it can not be ignored RUN!
I was often very shocked to find that in the upper grades I ran into Army and Marine veterans who were pacifists, supported total gun control and had zero tolerance for fighting even in self defense. Many even objected to having an armed police officer in the school.
Many would object to this "soup can defense" as encouraging conflict and promoting violence when everyone knows that conflict resolution and peaceful coexistence are the foundations of modern society.
It's a different culture folks, one that was difficult for me to understand even after 30 years involvement.
Poppycock. You taught and you can handle a weapon. I taught and I can handle one. I don't know about Kentucky but where I hail from most of the teachers, men and women alike, either shoot already or someone in their immediate family could teach them. I'm sure there is a lot of truth in your statement but let's not paint the world with a single brush. There are a lot of states that allow teachers to conceal carry today.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...ssroom-n208946
Grizz - How do you put up resistance to an armed intruder? Use your body as a shield?
We tried the can defense here at the forum. Chris came in and all three of us had eaten the contents.
I'm not saying give them (teachers) weapons and walk away. I saying IF they are interested they should be aloud to carry with some sort of close quarters combat training specifically designed around schools and teachers, not the military stuff.
Every school shooting story I've read about explains how the attacker shoots himself at the first sign of resistance, why not train as many people as possible to resist, at least those that are interested.
And more importantly, make it known to the public that teachers are aloud to carry in that school. Bad guys always look for gun free zone to reek their havoc
Good grief............
OK who ate their ammo......?
Give me your money and no one gets hurt. It's hot sauce and I know how to throw it!
http://www.ashleyfoods.com/images/P/satans-rage-400.jpg
Well, I'll bet I know what Sarge will bring to school.
http://blog.beatthebrochure.com/wp-c...Urine-Soda.jpg
An armed intruder in a school, history has shown, always back down and shoot themselves if they are faced with resistance. Will that also be true, who knows, but its better to fight for life vs lay down and get shot. They should lock doors, hide and if confronted, fight any way possible. Throwing cans of beans will be more damaging than getting hit with a ruler, phone or whatever these kids take to school these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
And like I said before, if the public is aware of the armed teachers, the bad guys will pick an easier target like a "no gun zone"
Remember 9/11/01?? The flight that crashed in PA? Those guys fought back and saved whatever their next target was supposed to be.
I would suggest it is a bit different having a group of men defending against a knife wielding moron in the confines of an aircraft than a bunch of little kids going against a moron with a semi auto firearm.
You're right. And I'm not suggesting the kids go into a search and destroy mentality with cans of soup against some moron with any weapon and who is hell bent on killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
But history has shown that in school shootings, the shooter will back off and shoot himself at the first sign of resistance.
Why do you feel its so wrong for teenagers in school to defend themselves with any means available? The only other options are to
1) Hide = sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't and kids get shot until the shooter decides to move on and or runs out of ammo
2) Run away = again, sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. Consider the 100's of kids piled up at an exit, the one in front trip and the others stomping over him or her to get out. Plus the shooter will have all the "targets" piled up in one area to easily pick off
3) I cant think of any other options other than calling the LEO's but by the time they show up everything will be over
There is no way to prevent these terrible things from happening in the future, or only option is to be prepared and ready to fight back, hoping and praying it ends quickly with few, if any, innocents lost.
I think you could support the statement that most active shooters shot themselves after armed responders appeared on the scene.
There have been several stories of teachers resisting in various ways that resulted in the teachers death and continued assault on the school by the shooter.
I could dig up a couple of stories off the top of my head where a person with a handgun engaged an active shooter and either died or been wounded without stopping the spree. One was a mall shooting a couple years back. You are engaging a gunman armed with a rifle and you have a handgun (probably a sub compact). Anyone with practical experience on a firing range with both weapons isn't gonna like those odds. Unfortunately, the people that engage the shooter often try to stop them by yelling, "drop the gun" or something like that.
Also, lets say some 9 year old got lucky and beaned the shooter with a can of Van Camps. The school board would immediately suspend that student and ban the possession of tactical assault beans from with 100 yards of any school.
Having declared these schools a can free zone, have we not opened them up to attacks by assault asparagus? A barrage of broccoli? Canned corn carnage? Deadly dumpling destruction? Erie endive encounter? Flying fennel fiasco?
So your response is to do nothing and hope the bad guy does not hit you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Batch
The problem here is people trying to apply logic when there really isn't any......
I can see an attempt and desire to do "something".....so the can of beans may seem more logical to some one that know that guns, knives, baseball bats are an absolute PC no-no.
The whole thing seem like a sick attempt to continue draw attention to gun control.....again.....
As in:
"Take away everyone guns and we will have no need for tactical cans of beans....and everyone will live happily ever after."
I was looking at it from the perspective of "if you wont let us have guns, we will use whatever we have to defend ourselves". And as dumb as "arming" the kids with cans sounds, its better than being a sitting duck, waiting to get shot because the teachers are not aloud to be armed and properly trained or having armed LEO's (ex military or security firm) walking the property.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
Now that I think of it.....baseball bats are sounding better than soup cans.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzAQFIQjqcg
at the (about) 2.00 minute mark.... a real can shooter, powerful enough to kill.
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have....cans?
Has anyone determined if this isn't just an attempt by someone who actually favors having an armed resource officer in the school? Maybe they're drawing attention to the fact they would rather have an armed officer rather than relying on kids with cans of beans. Like, "Hey parents, your kids are potentially sitting ducks here and I'm just drawing attention to that fact by my request for canned goods.)
I don't know. Sounds like something I might come up with. I'm an instigator-by-design kind of guy.
Guessing though that's giving this person too much benefit of the doubt.
Not at all. I am saying that I would not support training kids to throw cans at an active shooter as a good security measure or even a sane response to one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz123
Also, that the implication that all shooters, when face with any resistance, just shoots themselves in the head is wrong. It is usually when an armed responder arrives and challenges them.
There are so many things that can be done in place of suggesting that 12-13 year olds try to defend themselves with anything. Harden the structure. Prevent open access by installing video cameras and locked doors that can only be opened by someone inside. Install security officers with weapons. Allow teachers the right of concealed carry in the classroom. I would not want a pre-teen or young teen defending themselves with anything in that environment. Cans or otherwise. This is an instance when avoidance is the better road. Giving the structure the ability to provide avoidance keeps the shooter out.
I agree hunter, batch and rick.
My thought is if the teacher doesn't have a viable means of defense, the best thing to truly do is lock the classroom door and position everyone in the room out sight. There should also be a code word that only school staff have and can give to police upon arrival. When police or staff approach a door, they say the code word and wait for a response. There should be two response words, one that means all is well in the room and one that indicates duress. These words should be changed often to maintain their integrity. I guarantee this will save more lives than a can of anything.
Hardening schools has always been my option. Mag lock doors that close from the main office that will section off hallways would be a major deterrent to access.
Panic Rooms between classrooms, while they take up space, are also an option.
Most schools require glass viewing windows so the inside of the classroom can be seen from the corridor, I guess so no child molesting can happen. Those need to be hardened as well. Bullet-proof plastics are no longer cost prohibitive.
+1 low key, good ideas.
Harden the school, arm teachers.....I agree with the many options people have submitted.
But....if I were a cornered student with a gunman across the room.....I would want something heavy that I could throw at him. Just sayin...
I think there are plenty of options within the school already that would work better than storing canned food. I was a freshman in high school the school year after columbine occurred. Our teachers were telling us we were supposed to turn off the lights and shelter under the desks. I pretty much told my teacher a shooter is not a tornado and that I would be hiding behind the door with a big pair of sharp scissors. The following week I had a required meeting with my school counselor........ :tongue_smilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by finallyME
Your teacher had to change out all of the scissors didn't she?Quote:
Originally Posted by natertot
http://m4.sourcingmap.com/photo_new/...971_ux_g03.jpg
No, not really. The teacher was concerned with my "creative level of violent thinking". I had to spend 30 minutes convincing the counselor I was not violent nor do I look for violence but when placed in the right circumstances I will defend myself to the end and I will not fight fair. After the meeting my parents were called and they reiterated to the counselor that I was taught not to start fights but that I should defend myself in the right situations. My family and I never heard another word about it after that.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is why all my mandatory class schedules prevented me from taking art class as an elective...... :art:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyMe
Toby was always pretty heavy. He probably would make a better shield though. He could hide three or four kids behind him.
Oooo you bad....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
That's clazy
Ah ha,.....The old , "only have to run faster than you" defense.......Survival of the smallest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Mag lock the doors from the main office? How many kids and teachers will be trapped in the hallways with the bad guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by LowKey
Code words? Really? Think about it, we already have countless code words (passwords) to remember and now you want to give a bunch of teachers and LOE's more words to remember? What about when a teacher gets sick and they have a sub come in? What about kids in the hallway, will they have passwords too? The number of people "in the loop" is ridiculous and expecting them to remember new passwords/codewords that get changed on a regular basis is not doableQuote:
Originally Posted by natertot
so being within close contact of the bad guy is ok for you (scissors behind the door) but throwing cans from a distance is not a good idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by natertot
Preventing the bad guys from entering, is the best choice, but that has never stopped the bad guys. Kids are bringing weapons into schools that have metal detectors at every door. Sandy Hook had a video security system but the bad guy shot the windows out and walked in.
The last line of defense is the person looking down the wrong end of the barrel and I have no doubt that person would much rather have a can of beans to throw and a chance of survival vs. do nothing and die.