A question for the Scouters on here...

Back in the day Scouts carried "sheath knives" & even hatchets. Now-a-days it seems like these are taboo items in the Scouts. Do any of you Scoutmasters on here allow your Scouts to carry a sheath/fixed blade knife? Do you, yourself carry one when on a Scouting outdoors activity?...:detective:

......and I was wondering if the new Scout Handbooks, have gun company ads in the back?
They use to....as those companies were sponsors.

I am not a scoutmaster, but in my time as a scout I was able to take several shooting merit badges such as rifle shooting, archery, and shotgun shooting. However, the scout do not support hunting, which is a skill I would have loved to learn while in scouts. Anyways, to answer the first question, I as a scout always carried a fixed blade and never received banter from any of the leaders. The rules may also vary between different troops and states. But in closing, my personal opinion is that fixed blade are actually much more useful and safer to use.
-I don't know if I answered your question or not, but I hope that helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jcgrip26

I am not a scoutmaster, but in my time as a scout I was able to take several shooting merit badges such as rifle shooting, archery, and shotgun shooting. However, the scout do not support hunting, which is a skill I would have loved to learn while in scouts. Anyways, to answer the first question, I as a scout always carried a fixed blade and never received banter from any of the leaders. The rules may also vary between different troops and states. But in closing, my personal opinion is that fixed blade are actually much more useful and safer to use.
-I don't know if I answered your question or not, but I hope that helps.

---

jc, thank you for your input, but a "Scouter" is a Scoutmaster, whom my questions were directed. It seems like not only do Scout troops today forbid their use, many Scout campgrounds forbid them on the property...:detective:

Hmm, I never carried a fixed blade, but I was a suburban scout :)

However, I do not recall any prohibitions against it. Once you earned your Totin Chip award, you were cleared to use all wood working tools (saws, axes, knives). Aside from that, there is no OFFICIAL rule on blade length, though I did stumble across an article that I may want to research stating that a blade length of 60" is not allowed (aka, a sword, but that isn't a wood working tool, so shouldn't be valid under Totin Chip anyway).

But you are correct that many places do not allowed "sheathed" knives. I do not know what my old troop says, as I'd be curious to know. Camp Yawgoog, the summer camp I attended, does not allow fixed blades (I just looked it up).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarge47

jc, thank you for your input, but a "Scouter" is a Scoutmaster, whom my questions were directed. It seems like not only do Scout troops today forbid their use, many Scout campgrounds forbid them on the property...:detective:

---

I guess you would have to be one to know that.....?

Over 50 years ago, the Scouts frowned on an 11-year old drinking beer with the older scouts. Is that still the policy? (Yes, that person was asked to leave scouting).

Wow what a small world, camp Yawgoog was actually the first camp I went to as a scout.

Campsite Wunegin in Medicine Bow RULES!!! lol

I loved it up there

Scouts? No, folders only. Scouters? Yes, we can and do carry belt knives.

So then can we assume that a "Scouter" somewhere at some time made the decision to view a 3" fixed blade as more dangerous than a 3" non-locking folder?

I remember my scout knife with all its doodads. I stopped carrying after a short time it in favor of the Buck 110.

I honestly can see where close adult supervision when an axe is used though. Axes can be dangerous to the user and those around them. My dad taught us. But, scouts is another alternative to teaching the safe way to use an axe. Just don't know if they allow them anymore.

It's been a few years and the Scouts are changing rapidly. I would assume that local laws will have some effect on what is allowed.

I am an assistant scoutmaster and just got back from scout camp. Axes and hatchets were allowed but must be kept in a roped off ax yard for safety and stored in their sheath when not in use. Only one person at a time in the Ax yard and only if they have completed their Totin'Chip card which is basically evidence they have completed their knife and ax safety lessons. Ax yards are also standard for using axes and hatchets for most scout activities. While sheath knives are not banned by the national scout headquarters, most camps ban scouts from wearing them although most would allow you to have it in your kitchen area for cooking and food preparation purposes. Our scoutmaster also has the same rule for his troop. I usually have one, a small Mora, but I keep it in my day pack.

When I was a scout back in the mid to late 80s I remember the rule coming into frequent use at scout camps both summer and weekend camps during other times of the year. It was during this time that leaders started seeing more and more scouts wearing the cheap Rambo style survival sheath knives with the compass, cheap survival saw, matches, and fish hooks in the handle. Some scouts were definitely using them incorrectly at the time which may have given rise to the rule. Many of today's scout leaders were scouts back then and so that rule has continued at many camps and troops.

Realistically, the simple three inch folder will do just about every task a scout needs a knife for. Under the leave no trace principles of scouting, scouts are not going to be battoning tree branches to make a shelter. The other functions on a basic pocket knife such as a can opener or awl are much more useful to the scout. Scouts can have locking folders if they need something more robust such as the Buck 110, which was popular among scouts back in my day, or one of the various locking clipper knives more popular today. As a scout and a scout leader I have never found the need for a sheath knife on any scouting activity other than in the kitchen for preparing food. I have been on several back packing trips into some pretty rough country, days away from civilization and found that a three inch folder and/or locking folder more than adequate for my needs and everyone else's in our patrol and troop. Nor have I ever heard of someone needing a sheath knife on a scout outing and complaining about not being able to do something because it was not available. Frankly, I have found way more need for items such as 550 Paracord on scout trips.

While scouting does have a merit badge in Wilderness Survival, survival is not the focus of scouting. Scouting works on building basic outdoor skills and also building life skills and knowlege. More emphasis is placed on first aid, plant identification, food cooking and safety, conservation, and knot tying than on use of a knife or learning survival skills while in the outdoors. The wilderness survival merit badge is taken by many scouts but is not one of the required merit badges for earning the Eagle Scout award. Others such as Camping, Cooking, First Aid, Environmental Science, Citizenship, and Personal Fitness are required for Eagle Scout rank. A complete list of the required merit badges can be found here: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php...gle_Scout_rank For the requirements for the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge you can go here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...s/mb-WILD.aspx

As a scout I never earned this badge. It interests some scouts and does not interest others. Merit badges are designed to expose scouts to different topics and teach them basic knowledge or skills related to that topic. By no means are merit badges designed to make a scout an expert in that topic. But they do expose scouts to different careers and hobbies that may interest them and cause them to look even further into as they grow older. What interests one scout may be a total bore to another. This is why there are so many different merit badge options to choose from.

As for the shooting, there are several merit badges a scout can choose to do such as Rifle Shooting, Shotgun Shooting, or Archery. They are all excellent merit badges. The NRA works with scouting to make sure instructors are NRA certified and also provides other support, training, and information. As was pointed out, there is no hunting in scouting although a scout is not prohibited from doing so on his own or with a family member outside of scouting. Regular scouts are not permitted to shoot handguns under scouting but older Venture Scouts are allowed to do this. Once again, a scout can do these things on their own time with a family member but not under the scouting umbrella. Scouts can use muzzle loaders, air rifles or 22LR for the rifle shooting merit badge and for shotgun any modern shotgun with a cartridge no bigger than 12 gage or muzzle loaders may be used. Scouts are also not allowed to do activities where they point guns of any kind at another scout such as Air Soft, Laser Tag, or Paint Ball according the guide for safe scouting. If scouts do this and someone gets hurt the insurance will not cover them. Again, outside of scouting, a scout may do these activities. I have not seen any adds for guns or ammo in a scout manual since before the 1970s and have not seen them in Boys Life for many years but shooting is alive and well in scouting and remains very popular. Even among the cub scouts who attend day camp for several days each summer, shooting the BB Guns and archery are usually the most popular of all the activities they get to do.

Hope this answers the questions.

Thanks for the write up....lot's of good information there.

I just got back from a week of camp. It might take me a couple days to de-stress from that. Anyways... the camp forbid sheath knives. It is one of those rules that I don't agree with, but, we went to the camp and I told the boys to not bring any. I brought 2. I carried my Helle in my backpack and really only took it out at camp when cooking or messing with my bow drill set I am learning on. Basically, I only took it out when camp staff wasn't around. I did use both sheath knives in situations where a folding knife would not be sufficient. As for other camps in our council, they pretty much have similar rules. So, when we go to official scout camps, I tell the scouts to keep the sheath knives put away. To put that into perspective, we generally go to an official camp about once every 2 years. The rest of the time, I let them have sheath knives.

I have used sheath knives many times on many occasions when a folding knife would have been dangerous. Many times we have gone camping to places with no wood to start a fire. So, we buy those fire wood bundles. The problem is that they are huge pieces that need to be split into smaller pieces to get them started. My cold steel SRK is much safer for a scout to baton with than any hatchet.

Anyways, to answer your question, the National organization doesn't forbid them, so I don't. If we go to a camp that does, we follow the rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karatediver

I am an assistant scoutmaster and just got back from scout camp. Axes and hatchets were allowed but must be kept in a roped off ax yard for safety and stored in their sheath when not in use. Only one person at a time in the Ax yard and only if they have completed their Totin'Chip card which is basically evidence they have completed their knife and ax safety lessons. Ax yards are also standard for using axes and hatchets for most scout activities. While sheath knives are not banned by the national scout headquarters, most camps ban scouts from wearing them although most would allow you to have it in your kitchen area for cooking and food preparation purposes. Our scoutmaster also has the same rule for his troop. I usually have one, a small Mora, but I keep it in my day pack.

When I was a scout back in the mid to late 80s I remember the rule coming into frequent use at scout camps both summer and weekend camps during other times of the year. It was during this time that leaders started seeing more and more scouts wearing the cheap Rambo style survival sheath knives with the compass, cheap survival saw, matches, and fish hooks in the handle. Some scouts were definitely using them incorrectly at the time which may have given rise to the rule. Many of today's scout leaders were scouts back then and so that rule has continued at many camps and troops.

Realistically, the simple three inch folder will do just about every task a scout needs a knife for. Under the leave no trace principles of scouting, scouts are not going to be battoning tree branches to make a shelter. The other functions on a basic pocket knife such as a can opener or awl are much more useful to the scout. Scouts can have locking folders if they need something more robust such as the Buck 110, which was popular among scouts back in my day, or one of the various locking clipper knives more popular today. As a scout and a scout leader I have never found the need for a sheath knife on any scouting activity other than in the kitchen for preparing food. I have been on several back packing trips into some pretty rough country, days away from civilization and found that a three inch folder and/or locking folder more than adequate for my needs and everyone else's in our patrol and troop. Nor have I ever heard of someone needing a sheath knife on a scout outing and complaining about not being able to do something because it was not available. Frankly, I have found way more need for items such as 550 Paracord on scout trips.

While scouting does have a merit badge in Wilderness Survival, survival is not the focus of scouting. Scouting works on building basic outdoor skills and also building life skills and knowlege. More emphasis is placed on first aid, plant identification, food cooking and safety, conservation, and knot tying than on use of a knife or learning survival skills while in the outdoors. The wilderness survival merit badge is taken by many scouts but is not one of the required merit badges for earning the Eagle Scout award. Others such as Camping, Cooking, First Aid, Environmental Science, Citizenship, and Personal Fitness are required for Eagle Scout rank. A complete list of the required merit badges can be found here: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php...gle_Scout_rank For the requirements for the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge you can go here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...s/mb-WILD.aspx

As a scout I never earned this badge. It interests some scouts and does not interest others. Merit badges are designed to expose scouts to different topics and teach them basic knowledge or skills related to that topic. By no means are merit badges designed to make a scout an expert in that topic. But they do expose scouts to different careers and hobbies that may interest them and cause them to look even further into as they grow older. What interests one scout may be a total bore to another. This is why there are so many different merit badge options to choose from.

As for the shooting, there are several merit badges a scout can choose to do such as Rifle Shooting, Shotgun Shooting, or Archery. They are all excellent merit badges. The NRA works with scouting to make sure instructors are NRA certified and also provides other support, training, and information. As was pointed out, there is no hunting in scouting although a scout is not prohibited from doing so on his own or with a family member outside of scouting. Regular scouts are not permitted to shoot handguns under scouting but older Venture Scouts are allowed to do this. Once again, a scout can do these things on their own time with a family member but not under the scouting umbrella. Scouts can use muzzle loaders, air rifles or 22LR for the rifle shooting merit badge and for shotgun any modern shotgun with a cartridge no bigger than 12 gage or muzzle loaders may be used. Scouts are also not allowed to do activities where they point guns of any kind at another scout such as Air Soft, Laser Tag, or Paint Ball according the guide for safe scouting. If scouts do this and someone gets hurt the insurance will not cover them. Again, outside of scouting, a scout may do these activities. I have not seen any adds for guns or ammo in a scout manual since before the 1970s and have not seen them in Boys Life for many years but shooting is alive and well in scouting and remains very popular. Even among the cub scouts who attend day camp for several days each summer, shooting the BB Guns and archery are usually the most popular of all the activities they get to do.

Hope this answers the questions.

---

Very well written! Positive rep sent!

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