I know that along with the plastic pistol packers there is also a faction here that use their AR platforms as general hunting and plinking rifles.
Does anyone favor the AK as a brush gun?
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I know that along with the plastic pistol packers there is also a faction here that use their AR platforms as general hunting and plinking rifles.
Does anyone favor the AK as a brush gun?
I have always favored the AR over the AK for any use!
I guess I'm just gonna sit back and see what happens.....I can't think of any good reason for using one.
I agree with Hunter63!
Just my personal historical perspective... my AK accuracy in the woods has always been less than "hunting-satisfactory". However... it is hard to beat for absolute medium-distance personal defense.
Okay, for the smartest gun guy on here to bring this up, he is up to something. My question is why? Just because you can? I think there are much better options, both gun and caliber wise.
As a "woods gun" the break down capability of the AR platform gives it major advantages especially when paired with cartridges that have better terminal ballistics than the 556.
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Ya think?.....LOL.....I'll play along...Quote:
Originally Posted by natertot
I think the bait has been cast.......but that is just me.
I don't favor the AK but a sks is a different story. I know some fellas that hunt with their AKs, does the job.
I always thought a Mini-14 in .308 would be cool stuff. Good reliable platform with low maintenance and a cartridge with a punch.
How about a m-14 in .308?
Shot them in the Navy, they were pretty cool. None on the civilian side. Closest thing is the M-1A. I was referencing the Mini-14 for it's size. I don't know if you have ever play with the M-1A or the M-14, but they are big and heavy as h3!!. If you could get closer to the weight and size of the Mini-14 using the same kind of action design and chambered in .308, one would have a heck of a bush rifle. :rambo:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyt
I figured after beefing up a mini-14 to take a .308 it would be close to weight of a m-14. I have never owned or handled a mini-14 much but I do have a m-14. Yup it's is heavy LOL.
Hummm .a spray and pray hunting rifle?.......LOL....What are you hunting?...in the bush.....
No, no, no not a spray and pray but rather a load on Sunday and shoot all week rifle LOL
Spray and pray? The mini-14 is much more accurate and less troublesome than your standard AR at the same price. The only reason AR's excelled as a favorite is the fact you can customize it with everything under the sun. An accurate and reliable semi auto .223 under $650 whereas you'd have to spend another $400-500 to get the same results out of an AR. Plus, AR's have too many parts which means more to go wrong. So if one could get all the goodness of a mini-14 and have the punch of a .30cal, why pass it up? As far as what could you hunt for with it, I was thinking deer, coyote, boar, bear.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
Why not the Mini 30?...that's a 7.62 X39 or back to the AK round.
That's exactly why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
That's what this thread was supposed to be about.....hummmm seem to be working......
I have a Ruger Frontier in .308. I think it is an excellent woods rifle- short, light and extremely accurate. I really do not care for semi auto rifles for woods work. Too much tendency to waste ammo. I used to hunt with a friend whose motto was "Lead in the Air Gets Them!" You could always tell where he was hunting because he always emptied the magazine when he shot at game. I had to quit using a repeater and go to a single shot because his attitude was rubbing off on me!
Then the general consensus would be;
Any bolt action rifle at any weight is a woods gun
The AR is a woods gun in its .223 poodle shooter round/30 shot mag
The marlin 336, 30-30 is a woods gun at 7 pounds
The 1894 Winchester 30-30 is a woods gun at 6.9 pounds
The Ruger mini-30 might be a woods gun at 6.7 pounds, when shooting a round almost a twin to the 30-30
The SKS is a woods gun shooting the same round as the mini-30 but weighing 8.8 pounds.
but
The AK, at 6.8 pounds and shooting the same round is NOT a woods gun.
What if you put some camo tape on it?
:hammer:
The 2 best " woods " guns I have ever owned was a Winchester 30/30, and a Ruger Semi auto .44 mag! But if I had to choose between and AK and an AR, it would definately be the AR.
Ak at 6.8 lbs? Never! I've fired many real Kalashnikov's and not a single one came under 8lbs. Standard profile that is.
-
Now. An AR with 14.5" or shorter barrel in 6.8 spc II. That's a dandy woods gun. All the ballistics and then some of a .30 Winchester
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vpuh6q2O_c
Any gun can be a woods gun, particularly if it's all you have.
I don't own AK47, only shot one once at a fun back field shoot, shooting a 6 gal bucket on a steel fence post little over 100 yds.
Did hit it, couple of times.... but can't say I was impressed on my shooting...or was it the rifle?
Did not seem like a hunting rifle, but made me want to load up a "clip" (LOL yeah I said it on purpose) level it at the bucket and "let'er rip......arh, arh, arh.
The being said I was hitting the bucket with an SKS w/scope, which "felt' like a hunting rifle more than the AK.
The ammo being the same, 7.62 X 39 seems like a 30-30 almost, and can be had in soft nose for hunting, so yeah hunting round?
Friend used an AR but in like 6.8 or -6.5 something....but dropped down to 5 round magazine as the 20 -30 round mag kept catching on brush....besides the fact he had made a one shot kill......that leaves carrying around 29 more rounds......so load on Monday and shoot all month.
Then there is the...."That looks like a machine gun, you must be a terrorist".....perception.....and the fact you have to shoot it with a face mask or towel wrapped around your head.
I'll stick to my SS, ML, and bolt guns, lever actions, pumps and hunting style auto loaders........But would use an AK or and AR if I needed to.
Sorry Point Man but the AKM comes in at 6.5 pounds empty. I looked it up and also checked shipping weights from several dealers.
But I must say I am surprised that the modern military platforms are less acceptable to this group as "sporting rifles" based simply on the presence of pistol grips and general shape of the firearm.
The SKS in 7.62x39 is, the AK is not.
The Mini 14, .223 is, but the AR is not.
The M1A is but the SVD in .308 is not.
Just rambling thoughts on the nature of the world....
I have both but prefer the sks over the ak because it shoulders up better for me or at least it seems. I also don't like detachable magazines. So if not a sks, a Winchester lever action is alright too as is the marlin.
I my self am not a bolt only snob, I'm a lover of all guns. Tall ones, short ones, skinny ones, fat ones.
Never weighed an AK but all seemed tremendously heavier than my service rifles. Kind of like an artillery piece
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So what exactly IS a woods gun?....Is it like a woods bumming gun?....or Buschcraft gun?.....Plinker?
I can picture some one walking thru the woods blasting away at all and any thing that look like it need shooting.
(bottles and cans are fun till you buy the land and have to clean up the mess.....)
I can see small animals ducking for cover as the latest tactical gears is unleashed on them....
I can see a large part of the population that are afraid of bears, cougars, (2 and 4 legged) and other walking up right threats......
I can see the newest, or oldest addition, that has been added to the collection, by all the cool expensive knives (some knives cost more that the $50 SS shot gun pictured) and pouches and walking sticks that are pictured with them.
So what say you?
This man likes the AK for "woods duty."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBQmMM2UIc
S.M.
I rest my case........
Now fellas, that man did not say a word about being in the woods. He is in his "compound". Said so in the first sentence.
He is also notorious for his spray and pray antics with anything he gets his hands on that has more then one round in a magazine.
He has been known to rip both rounds out of a double barrel shotgun at the same time and try the same soda can test with a Marlin lever gun!
I suppose what one considers acceptable is determined by their own impulse controls.
Perhaps we should start a support group for spray and pray ammo burners.
Of course I don't have to attend, I seldom spray, and can stop any time I want too!
LOL.......Nothing wrong with ....fun...until you have to pick up the mess.
Piece of property next to mine had a ravine filled with junk......used as a dump....so it was great fun to take what ever toy dejure and shoot up the place.
Then I bought it ...and have been cleaning up my mess ever since.
At least old melons and pumpkins just dissolve.
They don't make those big magazines for nothing.
I'm pretty sure that was in your ravine there Hunter. Those are all the pop cans you picked up last week.
No, those are along the road......kinda like a part time job, when alum. is $.30 cents a pound.
The dirty Pampers are the wordt.
The ravine collected all sorts of stuff.....actually had a young guy come over and haul away 4-5 pick up loads of refrigs, grills, doors, cans garbage, bottles.......and even an old manure spreader.
Kid did a good job on the big stuff that he could sell for junk....but the bottles and glass are still there.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...m/DSCF0749.jpg
He also gets all his ammo free from Federal. I wouldn't mind a relationship like that! :laugh:Quote:
KYRATSHOOTER - " ... He [Hickok45] is also notorious for his spray and pray antics with anything he gets his hands on that has more then one round in a magazine."
S.M.
That brings up an interesting question -- What do you consider to be the purpose of a 'Woods Gun"? If it is just a gun to "plink" and burn ammo, I would prefer a 22 rimfire. Much cheaper to shoot, providing that you can find any 22 rimfire ammo now a days. If you consider a "Woods Gun" as a hunting tool suitable for close to medium ranges, I would still prefer something with more punch and accuracy. That does not rule out a 22 rimfire or a semi auto, as it depends on game targeted. If you anticipate a survival situation with two legged targets in the mix, then an AR or AK or SKS , in my opinion is a reasonable choice. The 7.39 is a virtual ballistic twin of the old standard 30-30, which for many years has been the definition of "Woods Cartridge". ( I am not a fan of the 5.56 cartridge) I think I would rather carry a Ruger Mini 30 (which I do not own)around in the woods than an AK, as it is less likely to spook the tourists.
My definition of a "Woods Gun" would include the following: a short length in what ever action type trips your trigger, a cartridge powerful enough to take down the largest game you are likely to target or encounter, and a cartridge that is commonly available. I would have added iron sights except that at my age I do not see iron sights very well and prefer a low power scope or red dot sight. Actually, for a lot of my woods running I carry a single shot in a pistol caliber cartridge.
Good summery, I agree......
Wouldn't a " Woods Gun " be considered to be the same as what most people refer to as a brush gun? A large caliber slower velocity round capable of penetrating brush without deflecting the bullet too far off course?
Those guns would be as follows:
Winchester Model 94
Savage 99
Remington Model Seven
Marlin Model 308 MX LR
Marlin 336
Browning BLR
Remington Model 750 Woodmaster
Remington Model 7600
For us old purists those models might be ideal if criterion is based on philosophy of the 1950/1960 era; wood, steel, straight pull or semi-pistol grip stock.
I am now old enough to have grandchildren that hunt and roam the woods on their own. Their ideas about the size, shape and materials that make up an acceptable tool for woods use are vastly different from mine when I was that age.
I am now meeting many 20-something folks that, if asked the famous "only one gun" question, immediately reply not with caliber, model number or year of design dating to the 19th century, but with alphabet designation of either AK or AR.
Times are changing, but it seems that the older shooters do share one thing in common with politicians; a uniform view of what a "sporting gun" looks like.
.....and that may not be the best approach.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kyratshooter