Simple Common Sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=hR3t7j2tUec
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Simple Common Sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=hR3t7j2tUec
Ain't that the truth.......nice find.
If one shot were met with 4 or 7 or 19 then the rest of these morons might get the idea that it won't work. Even if they don't I still like the odds.
I see the merits of both sides of the "argument".
Only conclusion I can come to is thank god I'm a Canadian and truly don't have to worry about it one way or another.
Really? Good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._R._M...chool_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c...nique_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord...rsity_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._W._J...itute_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendale...te#In_the_news
http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/...-Center-2.png/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Checkmate.......
Really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Over the course of decades, our entire country has suffered fewer large-scale bouts of violence than most of your major cities do in a year.
In fact, some of our worst bouts of violence have been perpetrated by U.S. criminal elements (most recently Bandidos bikers) trying to expand operations into Ontario & Quebec.
I've traveled all over my country and nowhere have I ever even had to think twice about my safety or my family's. Wonder if I'd be safer carrying a weapon or not. Most recently i was in Winnipeg, the highest incident of crime per capita in all of Canada, and I walked all over downtown and a few of the grittiest neighbourhoods, with zero concerns for my personal safety, night after night for 8 days.
Yes, spontaneous violence can happen anywhere, any time. But in the U.S. it's rarely spontaneous... every day criminals and unhinged people are planning to do violence unto victims and regular folks are planning/preparing to do violence unto them. It's an ongoing current of stress and i'm not sure how a populace handles living with it day after day.
Do you have locks on your doors at home? Do you use them?
Yeah and sometimes, but mostly not. And I live in a town of 1,000,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
My back door is almost never locked, my garage door is never locked and our front door is locked when we remember to. If i'm lying in bed and think of the unlocked door... I NEVER get up to go lock it. Half my neighbours leave their garage doors wide open over night and even when they're away from the house on shopping trips, etc. So far nothing significant has grown legs.
We have absolutely no call to live with any great concern or fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
That's your perception but not the overall reality. Yes, there are places in the cities that I won't travel but I've also been to a lot of places in Canada and a few of them I did have concern about safety no differently than had I been in one of our large cities. Perhaps it's a case of personal perception that we see things the way we do or feel the way we do about them. But the fact is no place is utterly safe from mass violence.
I live in the suburbs and I really don't have a concern about locking my doors where I live. I do when I leave but I've gone to town and left downstairs windows open without much concern about theft. It's not unusual for my neighbors to leave their garage doors open. I don't because I'm just not that trusting of people. But the worse thing that's happened in 24 years of living here is a neighbor had a power mower stolen from his yard and I caught some guy trying to break into my truck. Like you, I have no call to live with any great concern or fear.
I carry weapons (plural) because I'd much rather have one if I ever do need it than not have it and wish like heck I did have it.
That's all fine and I'm sure valid from your perspective.
But it doesn't change the fact that grabbing those weapons and walking out the door with them to carry out everyday mundane tasks is a preparation to do violence.
Your intent is not nefarious nor malicious, but it is still an intent to cause harm to another - should a particular scenario arise.
To me that's a frightening way to live, armed; and I'm extremely thankful I don't have to even weigh the pros and cons and make the same decision.
I don't disagree with you. I don't find it frightening just a reality that something could happen. To me it's no different than taking insurance out on my home or car. I don't live in fear that my home will burn down but I know the reality is there is an ever present risk.
I would suggest that it's less that you don't have to weigh the pros and cons but rather you choose not to. If you look at the stats you'll find the some violent crime is higher per capita in Canada than in the U.S. By some numbers you have a 92% higher assault rate than we do.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/...d-States/Crime
I'm sure you'll never match our murder rate. But all that aside, it does come down to perception. I hope you never need a weapon or need to defend yourself of you family in any way. I hope I don't either.
Your point of view has been shaped by your experiences - as has that of all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
I view handguns and rifles as nothing more than tools, much as a carpenter would carry a hammer. You view it as preparation to do violence whereas I view it as protection. I suppose the same could be said (both sides) of somebody that carries a condom in their wallet - preparation to do violence (rape) or protection.
No, you couldn't. A condom was designed and intended for one specific purpose, preventing impregnation of sexual partners. Later found beneficial for reducing risk of VDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
A firearm was designed and intended for one specific purpose, killing one's enemies or victims. Later found beneficial for hunting for sustenance and for sporting enjoyment.
Anyways, I am not against armed defense... i see merits in the pro-CCP stance, and the anti stance. If my environment & society ever changed to the point that i did have daily concerns for my welfare, I would carry. Regardless of what our law allows.
That comparison is, unfortunately, completely false. Our two nations' criminal systems are quite different and as a result they both classify and report particular crimes differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Canadian assaults per capita seem higher because, quite simply we consider far more actions as "assault" and a wider variety of "assaults" as criminal offenses.
EDIT: To elaborate...
In summary, Canada's violent crime index includes simple assaults where in the US simple assaults are excluded, making it impossible to compare the two nation's violent crime rates as apples-to-apples. Also, there is no tracking of the rate of rape in Canada, as rape is not a separate Criminal Code offence; it is included in the broader offence of sexual assault. This difference can be exploited by people who want to magnify the rape rate in Canada by reporting all sexual assaults as rapes. Similar problems plague comparisons between the US and the UK. The ultimate references are the various reports themselves: the details of what crimes are included in the statistics and how those crimes are defined.
It's a very tricky area. In general I would suggest that comparing crime rates internationally is a fool's errand as crime is defined by law and law is defined by culture; culture in turn is what separates nations. This is why the homicide rate is used as an index of violence: everyone pretty much agrees on what homicide is.
" Willful retardation at it's finest"
You can say that again.
I like that guy already. Gun control people are
(willful retardation at it's best)
I carry and have weapons in my home, and yes, most certainly have plans to do bodily harm to anyone that threatens me or my kids.
I think I've shared this story before but a few years ago our business was burglarized. They took computers, tools, and anything else they could get their hands on. They broke down the locked door on a side street. The business is not in what most would consider a bad part of town. It is right on main street across from the fire station and just a little ways down from the library.
We left one of the cell phones they stole on and because the thieves used it, two of the bad guys were arrested and we were able to recover about 1/3 of our items. They refused to tell the police where the other items were located or who else was involved. They claimed they were the only ones, an obvious lie because they only had about 1/3 of the stolen items. The two thieves were young, Hispanic males, and most likely gang members. They were probably also here illegally based on local demographics.
That same day as the arrest, three young Hispanic men came to our business. One of them stood outside the front door with a pellet rifle in one hand and a pit bull on a leash in the other hand. The two others came in, sat down in our office front in some chairs we have for customers to wait in and proceeded to eyeball the area and everyone in it, employees and customers. My secretary thought for sure that we were going to be shot. I knew it was a pellet rifle but many of my employees had no clue.
The cops arrived long after they were gone. They caught up to them a little later and warned them to not come back to our business or they would cite them for trespassing. Under the law, they had done nothing illegal. They police told us the thugs did it to intimidate us but they were smart enough to not do anything that would get them arrested.
The police then did something that you would probably not expect, even in California. They told me in no uncertain terms, "We cannot protect you. You should consider getting firearms to protect yourselves." They explained that they simply could not respond fast enough and that there were not enough police to be everywhere when needed. They suggested concealed carry permits and then showed us some places around our business that would be good to locate a firearm to get to it quick if needed. Yes we were being counselled by law enforcement officers in California about arming ourselves because they could not protect us!!!!
Those thugs never came back. We have been tagged by graffiti a few times since then but we paint it over immediately and you cannot even tell. We even had a window shot on the front of our store in broad daylight. The bad guys do not care. Some of us now legally carry concealed firearms including myself. I have carried nearly every day for over four years now. It costs me money to do so both for the training and the permit from the county government so I can legally do what the criminals do for free and illegally. They don't care about the laws that prohibit felons from owning guns, gun free zones, background checks, waiting periods, or the other hurdles I have to run through. They are criminal thugs and that is their business. In our area during the same time period we were going through this, criminal thugs violently invaded dairy farms in broad daylight, brutally beat the owners, threatened the wives with assault, and forced them to open the safe and provide any valuables.
The attacks were random, in rural areas that are considered "safe". Those folks generally don't lock their doors. The robberies finally stopped but no one was arrested. Either the thugs were arrested for something else or they moved on to other things.
Just down the street from us a high school kid was shot and killed while helping his family run their little convenience store. The thug came in and just shot him as part of a robbery. The police think he was just passing through and decided to hit the place. They never caught the thug.
I hardly think about my firearm each day as I wear it. It is now a tool like my cell phone, pocket knife, and Zippo lighter that I also carry each day. I carry it because the thugs do not care about my life or the life of my family. My life means nothing to them and neither do the laws or the punishments affixed to those laws. I pray that I will never have to use my gun to protect myself. But I do not live in fear. I am cautious. I stay out of bad neighborhoods, avoid conflict, and try to get along with everyone. But I will be damned if I will become a victim because some activist or political hack thinks they can stop the thug from brutalizing people with firearms if they could only pass more laws. As the narco gangs continue to infiltrate the U.S. from our poorly protected border to the south they will continue to be emboldened. We could confiscate and ban guns tomorrow and they would still get them through the border areas. Their numbers are growing now every year as they recruit locally more thugs. They do not care about the laws or the people they hurt. They are pure evil. And evil understands only one thing, when good is willing to fight back using guns.
Well I live up here in Ontario as well, and if I could legally carry a handgun you bet your *** I would. The only way to stop violence is with violence, the law doesn't work.
Living in Canada, we have grown up not knowing what it's like to have an abundance of hand guns around. When we see them, they're strapped to a cop and seem unobtainable to the masses and not "normal" to be seen otherwise.
I wont bother arguing whether guns are justified in everyday life, it just isnt an argument that gets won, lost, or laid to rest. What I would like to know is, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is there more gun violence because there's more guns, or is there more guns because of more gun violence? Does violence begat violence and is the answer the problem?
The numbers suggest that bans increase violence. You only have to look at Chicago and Washington, DC prior to DC vs Heller to see that if citizens don't own guns criminals can run wild. Every place that has the right to carry seems to have a much lower violence issue. Around here about 50% of the population carry. The bad guys know if they pick on someone they may well have to defend themselves.
If you have no way to defend yourself and I want what is yours how can you stop me if I have a gun?
I guess my next question then would be, were these places "pro" gun before the ban? As in, were they normal everyday items that people got used to having around and very available prior to the ban?
I guess what I'm getting at is did the good guys lose the guns and the bad guys kept them and ran with it, or did the migrate there due to anti gun laws?
The migration to Chicago had nothing to do with guns. It was do to available work. Illinois has always had restrictions on handguns as far back as I can remember. Chicago, as you know, was home to the Capone gang and downstate where I come from was home to the Shelton and Burger gangs (much less notable) as well as a couple of mass executions over coal mine strike breakers so there has been a fear of violence for close to a hundred years in that state. My guess and that's all it is stems from folks wanting to make a safer life. Unfortunately, the criminal element doesn't abide by the law (hence the name criminal element) and get to prey on everyone else.
I can't address Washington D.C. because I have very little history with it. I worked there but didn't live there.
That is an unanswerable question.Quote:
FARLEY - " ... What I would like to know is, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is there more gun violence because there's more guns, or is there more guns because of more gun violence? Does violence begat violence and is the answer the problem? "
If you study history, you'll discover that long before gun powder and firearms were invented, there was unimaginable, unbelievable violence throughout the known world, not including the standard and incessant wars. Millions of men, women, and children have been slain, often at random, often as merely a matter of political or economic course, or often, "just for the Helluvit" by people using sharp pointy sticks (arrows & spears), garrotes, poisons, sharp edged pieces of flint or metal, bludgeons, stones, fire, etc., etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. That doesn't even include all the various torture instruments invented by Man to kill people.
The invention of gun powder and firearms merely facilitated the continuing expression of Human Nature at work. I would submit that were there no firearms, the violence and mayhem around the world would be as great in proportion today as it was in "the old days," because the one thing that has never, ever changed in the history of Mankind is Human Nature. Perhaps there is some gene that causes evil in some people.(?) Or perhaps there is some inherent cultural quirk within a culture's upbringing of its people that dictates violence against others. (?)
As far as Canadian "safety" goes, a couple of anecdotes. In 1980 I was hired by Columbia Pictures to be story editor on a teevee series that Columbia was doing in conjunction with a Canadian company based in Toronto. I was sent to Toronto for 12 weeks. While there, I had little time to "explore" Toronto but during the several times I wanted to see the city, I was told by people in the production company who were born and raised there, "Stay out of this or that area. It's not safe at all."
The exec producer was from London, England. When he heard the local residents make the above statement, he said, "Sounds like London." So both he and I stayed out of the areas of Toronto of which we'd been advised not to go.
In 1981, I attended a self defense pistol school in Arizona, called "Gunsite." It was owned and operated by a man named "Jeff Cooper," who was well known for his advocacy of honest citizens being prepared to protect themselves against violent criminals.
While there I became acquainted with a young man from Canada. He was a police officer in Calgary. He had been a RCMP officer, but tranferred into the Calgary P.D. I asked him about the reputed "non-crime" in Canada. He laughed and said, "That's all b.s. It's either misreported or just covered up for political reasons. There is plenty of violent crime in Canada. That's why I'm here. We can't get the proper training for self defense in Canada." Then he added, "Those big prisons we have are not for jay walkers."
Anecdotal? Of course. Valid? I choose to think it is, knowing how politicians skew statistics for their own self interests.
The cry by the gun control people is always the same: "More anti-gun laws, more anti-gun regulations, more anti-gun restrictions and rules, and then violent criminals will no longer be criminals." What utter, dire rubbish.
With or without guns, criminals are going to commit violent crimes against those who can not protect themselves. All the anti-gun laws do is to make it easy for criminals to prey at will, and to punish honest citizens for being honest.
As for carrying a gun in order to perpetuate violence against others... NONSENSE! I (and others I know) carry a gun to PREVENT violence against me and my family by vicious criminals.
I have zero desire to use a firearm for self defense, but have no intention whatsoever to allow some criminal to hurt my family or me.
That's the way it is.
S.M.
Pretty well put as far as I'm concerned, Seniorman. +1
Plus 2..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
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