Self defense class.

Have any of you or your partners ever taken one? Was it worth the time? Last night I attended our annual Take Back the Night march to raise awareness of sexual assault and domestic violence at the university. One of the speakers has the largest martial arts center here in town and gave out coupons for a free women's only self defense class. It's 4 weeks, every Sunday. Minimum age is 13 but I spoke with him and he will allow my 11 year old daughter to attend with me. She was with me so he could see she's not some little immature lilting daisy. She's almost as tall as me.

Alaska has the highest rate of sexual assault in the country per capita, and Fairbanks has the highest rate in the state. I work for an off site location of the w.. omen's s...hel...ter. In the last 2 months we have had a situation escalate enough that I am sleeping with a .357. I'm not much of a scardey girl and know I can hold my own when it comes to run of the mill encounters. But you have to be extra careful with crazy...

I put the "..." in some minor attempt to not have my name and that word searchable.

I haven't taken one, but I did date a Royal Marine for a time and he showed me a few moves(minds out of the gutter please....you know who you are) It has been beneficial, although I have never used them. Personally, I would go, what have you got to lose? and it may help you and your daughter, don't forget your son as well, boys need to know this stuff too.

A lady needs to know how to protect herself because of all of the sicko's out there that think they can take advantage of a lady just because she is a women. I have a good friend that has a 16 year old daughter that is a brown belt in Karate, and I saw her throw a 45 year old man on his azz!
I think she would surprise a rapist a lot, and he would probably regret attacking her. Take the courses!

I think the classes are a great idea. TAKE EM!

I already take karate. Our instructor devotes 2 sessions every year to personal defense (as opposed to sparring and learning technique). These classes are about exploiting your opponents weaknesses, knowing the quickest way to incapacitate them and leave them unable to persue you. Very valuable stuff. It works well for me because I am using the skills that are taught every week, but in a different more "practical" way that we are not allowed to use on one another in class. My daughter has been taking Karate longer than I have. She's used on bullies on teh playground at school (When she was 8) and we accepted the consequences given by the school but after hearing the whole story, did not punish her and told her she was right to defend herself. The school has a Zero Tolerance policy for fighting.


Goog

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Originally Posted by greatgoogamooga

She's used on bullies on teh playground at school (When she was 8) and we accepted the consequences given by the school but after hearing the whole story, did not punish her and told her she was right to defend herself. The school has a Zero Tolerance policy for fighting.


Goog

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Pretty nice to hear some school officials have common sense.

I say go for it. I have not taken them but did take my grand kids to karate class for some time. I was amazed at how simple some of the moves are and how incredibly effective they are.

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Originally Posted by greatgoogamooga

I already take karate. Our instructor devotes 2 sessions every year to personal defense (as opposed to sparring and learning technique). These classes are about exploiting your opponents weaknesses, knowing the quickest way to incapacitate them and leave them unable to persue you. Very valuable stuff. It works well for me because I am using the skills that are taught every week, but in a different more "practical" way that we are not allowed to use on one another in class. My daughter has been taking Karate longer than I have. She's used on bullies on teh playground at school (When she was 8) and we accepted the consequences given by the school but after hearing the whole story, did not punish her and told her she was right to defend herself. The school has a Zero Tolerance policy for fighting.


Goog

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It's a shame, I had a friend who got expelled from highschool some years ago because he hospitalized someone in the process of preventing a sexual assault. They guy who went to the hospital had it coming, this was apparently not his first time. However, fighting was unaccpetable, no matter what the reason, so they had to kick him out of school. The ought to have named him a hero in the school paper instead.

As far as self-defense classes, I'm mostly self taught from a mix of what friends have taught me, videos, reading, observing others, and doing cross-martial-arts sparring with friends. I don't think I have the discipline for a normal class, but what I've done so far gives me more confidence in my safety when I'm unarmed.

By all means take the classes. I took them for several years. My oldest son took them for 4 years, and the younger kids for more than 2 years. Amazingly, we never had a piece of broken furniture in the house.... :boxer:

Regardless, keep sleeping with that .357, and carry it whenever you can.

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Originally Posted by GreatUsername

I don't think I have the discipline for a normal class, but what I've done so far gives me more confidence in my safety when I'm unarmed.

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I would encourage taking regular classes (slightly biased, here). The skills we learn need to be built into muscle memory through repetition. When you see someone coming at you a certain way, you learn to respond a certain way and your reflexes are quicker as a result. Karate guys aren't really lightning fast (well, some of them are) but they see it all slower and can anticipate.

Goog

That's a good idea Goog, and I know it well from my fiddle lessons. But time is a huge factor here. I work one full time job and own two businesses, raising two kids by myself, and live in a dry cabin (so must haul water), live out of town so have to drive in every day, etc. It's not that my time is precious (so is my life obviously), but there just isn't very much of it.

My class started in September 1966 and lasted until August 1992.

Puhlease Winnie - a Royal Marine?

My wife was restrained by an acquaintance, (never told me till years later), because he wanted to make a point. That got her into a martial arts class, Aikido, (they called her "the bulldozer" she is very intense when going) eventually she started her own club. I am very careful not to surprise her (from painful experience.) :)
My son married her top student, he is also very nervous. :)
So by all means do take classes, in whatever style is available to you, its all good.

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Originally Posted by Old GI

My class started in September 1966 and lasted until August 1992.

Puhlease Winnie - a Royal Marine?

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Yea, I've had the basic military training but that was "several" years ago.

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Originally Posted by Old GI

My class started in September 1966 and lasted until August 1992.

Puhlease Winnie - a Royal Marine?

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Oh yeah:whistling:

Take the classes. I had 4 years of a self defense MA and hope to start again soomn. Even if you can't do it on a regular basis you'll have something to fall back on if you need it and it will be great for your daughter.

Im kinda on the fence about some self defense classes, some of them just give a person a false sense of security! A small women face to face with a large man may get a few hits in but unless you have the power to stun and disable in 2 or 3 blows your screwed!!!!

Karate alone is not really uhh... Anything that's going to protect you. One class will probably do virtually nothing for you. Get involved in some martial arts that will actually be useful. Even them it takes a couple months to actually gain tr muscle memory for any skills to save you. Oh yeah and you have to continually practice. You don't use it you lose it.

Something useful ive started picking up is doce pares.

Look for that or even just eskrima classes. You can find a stick just about anywhere in any situation...

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Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Karate alone is not really uhh... Anything that's going to protect you.

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Not sure what your experience with karate is, but I have to disagree. There are variations on what is considered "Karate" depending on it's country of origin and the teacher's spin on it. Our teacher is former military and teaches basically hand-to-hand. How to block, punch, kick, etc. It's not about breaking boards. We have tournaments against opponents who are attempting to punch or kick you to score points. Take those same techniques to the street and you are defending yourself.

We hardly ever fight with a sturgeon. :)

Goog

I have a video of one of our classes, just to show how serious we are about self defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

Goog

1stimestar, whatever you take, also practice running; increase speed as it gets easier.
Sometimes being able to outrun your attacker is exactly what might be called for.

Hahaha.... That whole point scoring sparring is what I was talking about. Karate and other things sometimes base their fighting on point systems rather than effectiveness. Real fighting isn't about points. There are a lot of techniques that can't even be done in a ring without causing permanent damage

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

1stimestar, whatever you take, also practice running; increase speed as it gets easier.
Sometimes being able to outrun your attacker is exactly what might be called for.

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Ugh, one time I ran every day for a year. I did a race, my first and only 10K. I won a prize. I never ran again. That was about 3 years ago. I get shin splints really easily. I've always wanted to be a runner so when I had the opportunity to do so (unemployed so had the time), I did. Never could get rid of those dang shin splints though.

Oh by the way, I ran that 10K in a Batman costume hahahha.

The one big misgiving I have about the blanket "take a martial art" idea is that some are competitive, some are practical. I honestly don't want to invest the time and money in a competitive class, because while that's all great fun, good exercise, and possibly slightly helpful in an emergency, it seems that learning a practical fighting system as taught by police, military, or general brawlers would serve best. Such classes are out there, I know, but I know I won't practice unless comfortable, and I'm most comfortable sparring with my friends that are military or police cadets, and people who themselves have taken the practical classes but aren't as hot-blooded or violent-minded as some of their fellow students.

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Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Hahaha.... That whole point scoring sparring is what I was talking about. Karate and other things sometimes base their fighting on point systems rather than effectiveness. Real fighting isn't about points. There are a lot of techniques that can't even be done in a ring without causing permanent damage

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That reminds me of a time many, many years ago.

In my first year of college I decided to take a karate course. The style was Isshinryu, but the class was "street defense". The instructor was a 5th degree black belt.

One of the guys in the class - a really big guy - reallllllllllly big kept interrupting, asking when we were going to learn to break boards. The instructor tired of the interruptions - went to his office - returned with a board and a baseball bat - handed the board to the student who immediately held it up in a "traditional" manner in preparation for the instructor to break it.

The instructor told him to toss the board in the air, high over his head. The student complied. While the board was way over his head, the instructor performed a jumping back kick - splintering the board in mid air. He then took the baseball bat and hit the heavy bag really hard, saying this class is to make sure you can prevent this, not break boards.

The student was still a little skeptical. The instructor held out the baseball bat and said - OK - break this with your fist. The student cried that it was impossible. The instructors assistant then held the bat as the instructor, with a single punch, broke the bat in two at about the label level.

The student was quiet the rest of the course.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

That reminds me of a time many, many years ago.

In my first year of college I decided to take a karate course. The style was Isshinryu, but the class was "street defense". The instructor was a 5th degree black belt.

One of the guys in the class - a really big guy - reallllllllllly big kept interrupting, asking when we were going to learn to break boards. The instructor tired of the interruptions - went to his office - returned with a board and a baseball bat - handed the board to the student who immediately held it up in a "traditional" manner in preparation for the instructor to break it.

The instructor told him to toss the board in the air, high over his head. The student complied. While the board was way over his head, the instructor performed a jumping back kick - splintering the board in mid air. He then took the baseball bat and hit the heavy bag really hard, saying this class is to make sure you can prevent this, not break boards.

The student was still a little skeptical. The instructor held out the baseball bat and said - OK - break this with your fist. The student cried that it was impossible. The instructors assistant then held the bat as the instructor, with a single punch, broke the bat in two at about the label level.

The student was quiet the rest of the course.

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I must be missing the point to this.

That still lacks any evidence of being a practical fighting style. Breaking boards and bats doesn't mean you can hold your own in a fight, or stop an attacker.

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Originally Posted by GreatUsername

The one big misgiving I have about the blanket "take a martial art" idea is that some are competitive, some are practical. I honestly don't want to invest the time and money in a competitive class, because while that's all great fun, good exercise, and possibly slightly helpful in an emergency, it seems that learning a practical fighting system as taught by police, military, or general brawlers would serve best. Such classes are out there, I know, but I know I won't practice unless comfortable, and I'm most comfortable sparring with my friends that are military or police cadets, and people who themselves have taken the practical classes but aren't as hot-blooded or violent-minded as some of their fellow students.

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This^

If you want to have fun and go duel people with some fancy moves, go for it. But if your goal is to learn how to protect yourself from someone outside of a controlled ring with something handing out points, I strongly advise not wasting your time on Karate.

Just ask 5th degree Karate blackbelt Fred Ettish. Bahahaha..

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80675093/

I studied various martial arts. I have fought more men than anyone I know. Not, more than anyone. But, more than anyone I have ever met.

Why? I escalated or allowed the situation to escalate rather than de-escalating the situation. Now for 1stimer's post. I would say that first study situational awareness. Observe your environment. Avoid high risk environments. If faced with an unavoidable violent encounter use overwhelming high yield violence and get out.

With good situational awareness you can avoid 90% of any type of conflict. The other 10% needs you to not escalate and to de-escalate with a failure to do so followed up with high yield run throughs like a solid chin jab or a cow catcher followed through with thumbs in the eyes or a rake and a run over. Then get out right now.

As an example. This dude could hold his own with most. He bled out on the way to the ramp. His friends were on their way back to the boat when he got stabbed. The guy who killed him gets out next year.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/200...lligator-alley

Folks I know said that if he would have walked away with his friends he would be alive today.

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Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

I must be missing the point to this.

That still lacks any evidence of being a practical fighting style. Breaking boards and bats doesn't mean you can hold your own in a fight, or stop an attacker.

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That's the point he was making. I guess I didn't explain it well.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

That's the point he was making. I guess I didn't explain it well.

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My apologies, I thought you were saying the opposite.

I would say take it. I went to a couple of classes with a girl I know and was amazed at some of the simple concepts that can completely incapacitate a person. You don't have to be strong, but quick, to strike someone's adam's apple. Unless the person is a beast or on something, they will grab their throat from pain/not being able to breath and lean forward. It's that moment you knee them in the face. Same is true for nut shots, it's not the nut shot that stops them completely, but the follow up when they are vulnerable.

The guy teaching was black belt in several styles and this was his own concept of self defense. It was avoid it, but if you have no option, here are some ways to handle it.

He may have been crazy, but told me if I'm ever outnumbered in a fight, and I get the chance, rip someone's ear off and act crazy. One of two things are gonna happen, I'm either getting my *** kicked anyway, or they'll back off cause who wants to fight someone who rips off ears? I laughed, but I guess it makes some sense in a twisted way.

Ha, I like that JP.:thumbup1: I learned a long time ago that I'm not going to win a lot of fights. But even through I'm five six my mind says six five.

One of the things I did with my son was to take Judo. all balance and holds. Get em down quick and beat feet. Now that I'm old..I'm not so tall.

Take the class!

Yes we are taking it. Although I am loath to have to drive into town one more day a week, and give up my Sundays, it's only for 4 weeks. What better reason could there be, right.

Hi,

I am new to the forum and I realize this thread is a month old and the OP has likely completed or is likely near the completion of these classes but I thought I would add my thoughts. Hope you don't mind the thoughts of a newbie here.

First off there is a huge difference between self-defense and martial arts. Yes, some martial arts are geared toward self-defense and may be applicable in real situations but they generally require months and years to master. Real self-defense is generally based on natural and instinctive skills, primal movement patterns that most people already know. This being the case, they can be learned quickly, retained longer, and be used almost immediately. If this training incorporates adrenal response scenarios, this can actually anchor the physical skills into the neural-pathways even quicker. Real self-defense also includes numerous aspects of safety beyond physical skills. This includes verbal-self-defense and conflict resolution as well as pre-conflict (awareness, mind-set development, legalities, physiology of self-defense, etc), and post-conflict (dealing with the physical, emotional and legal aftermath). These are things often neglected in martial arts training.

All of this being said…real self-defense can be learned in just a few hours of hands-on training. I have personally taught 1-day seminars (3-4 hours in length) for over 10 years with great success. This includes three previous attendees successfully using their skills to escape bad situations. There are also many programs out there that have shown even greater success. One such program called “Model Mugging” has been doing this successfully for over 40 years. There are many variations of this program out there to include FAST Defense, Impact Personal Safety, WAMM self-Defense, etc that have also shown great success. The key to these types of programs is combining reality-based scenario that invoke an adrenal response with natural and instinctive skills.

So, I do agree with some on here in that martial arts self-defense programs (what I call traditional self-defense) do require dedication in time and training to be effective, usually years. Unfortunately these types of traditional programs can lead to false confidence because they include unrealistic training against compliant training partners. However, solid self-defense programs (like those I mentioned above) that are based on what really happens during real attacks can provide effective skills and true confidence. While you may not always be able to find these types of programs near you, I would suggest checking out the various videos on youtube to get an idea of what they include. You can also purchase DVD’s of some of the material from these programs that will definitely help better prepare you for violence. Many of the physical techniques and drills can be performed with a willing partner and some striking pads/shields.

Hope that helps.

Steve

Thanks Steve and welcome to the forum. We went to the first class and didn't go back. The guy was just too flaky and unorganized. We did learn the technique of how to get loose if someone grabbed us by the wrist and started to learn how to get away if someone grabbed us around the neck from behind. But at that point, the class had already gone fully twice as long as it was supposed to and I had a meeting to go to.

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Originally Posted by 1stimestar

Thanks Steve and welcome to the forum. We went to the first class and didn't go back. The guy was just too flaky and unorganized. We did learn the technique of how to get loose if someone grabbed us by the wrist and started to learn how to get away if someone grabbed us around the neck from behind. But at that point, the class had already gone fully twice as long as it was supposed to and I had a meeting to go to.

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Did the wrist grab defense include pulling against the thumb or toward the opening in the attacker's grip without first striking the attacker to soften him up? Did it include putting the grab in context so everyone knew when such a grab would likely occur? In other words did he just tell you to stand there and let your partner grab your wrist? If so, he was teaching "traditional self-defense". Generally speaking an attacker grabs a wrist to do one of three things 1) move the intended victim to a vehicle or more secluded location 2) to prevent the intended victim from fighting back or 3) to momentarily keep the intended victim from moving away while the attacker strikes or deploys a weapon with the other hand. The easiest way to avoid a wrist grab is to use awareness and avoid letting someone get that close to you. However, even with the best awareness in the world there is always a chance someone can catch us by surprise. Even if that is the case, most attackers will not begin their attack with the wrist grab. It will generally be an "interview" or an "ambush". The interview will allow you to see them coming and easily prevent the wrist grab while the ambush can catch you by surprise but will generally be a tackle, a bear hug, or strike.

Now knowing this, IF someone is able to grab your wrist the worst thing to do is to start an upper-body struggle with this person. They will likely be adrenalized or worse on some kind of drug and they will probably have a convulsive death grip on your wrist. You won't be able to easily pull away from them like you can in training against a compliant partner, at least not without diminishing the attacker's ability to continue the assault. Ask yourself this- is the wrist grab likely to seriously injure you? Can it kill you? The answer to both is NO! This being the case, instead of worrying about trying to fight free of the attacker's grip, it's better to focus on doing something that will statistically slow or stop the assault. Remember, the grab won't hurt you, it's what he does with the other hand that you need to worry about. The simple thing to do is use the free hand and slam it into the attacker's face and head while alternating that with a hard and powerful knee driven into the attacker groin/bladder area. Continue to alternate hand to head and knee to groin as hard as possible until the attacker lets go or falls down. Regardless of whichever comes first the next things to do is obviously get out of there as quickly as possible.

I know that many of these instructors have good intentions but unfortunately they don't always teach things that reflect reality.

Sorry if I sound like a wannabe "know-it-all", it just bothers me when martial artists try to teach self-defense with only martial arts experience to guide them. The martial arts training environment is so different than reality.

Steve

Nope, none of that. Like I said, he was a bit flaky. The technique was to rotate your arm to loosen the grip, bringing your hand up towards your face, then pushing away from your body with your hand to break the grip. This did work well with a compliant partner...

We had one of our annual "rallies" called Take Back the Night, at the college. (I work for the local women's shelter.) Anyways, he was one of our speakers. We won't be asking him to return... Even though he says he has been "studying this for many years", I don't believe he was studying sexual abuse or domestic violence. It's about power and control. He got up in front of everyone and said it was due to alcohol. So yea, while he may have studied martial arts for many years, as you say, self defense is a different thing.

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Originally Posted by 1stimestar

Nope, none of that. Like I said, he was a bit flaky. The technique was to rotate your arm to loosen the grip, bringing your hand up towards your face, then pushing away from your body with your hand to break the grip. This did work well with a compliant partner...

We had one of our annual "rallies" called Take Back the Night, at the college. (I work for the local women's shelter.) Anyways, he was one of our speakers. We won't be asking him to return... Even though he says he has been "studying this for many years", I don't believe he was studying sexual abuse or domestic violence. It's about power and control. He got up in front of everyone and said it was due to alcohol. So yea, while he may have studied martial arts for many years, as you say, self defense is a different thing.

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I am sorry to hear that but unfortunately that's pretty typical in this field. You are right, the topics of sexual assault and domestic violence require specialized training that many martial artists generally won't do. At least you were able to recognize these issues.

I don't know how far this is from you but there is a Model Mugging instructor in Fairbanks according to one of the websites. If nothing else they may be willing to travel to you if you need a speaker for next year. The Model Mugging / IMPACT program is highly recommended.

Alaska
Fairbanks
AIMM (Alaska Impact Model Mugging)
3875 Geist Road Suite E Box 304
Fairbanks, AK 99709
Phone: 907 455-6783


Steve

I work in Fairbanks. I drive into Fairbanks every day though I live closer to a little community called Ester. That business seems to be out of business. Their page is gone at least and I never heard of one of those types of businesses in that area. But really, the only reason I was taking it was because he offered it to free for anyone who attended Take Back the Night and at the time, I had an escalating perpetrator who is also a law enforcement officer from out of state. He was pretty intense. But mostly, I just stay aware and carry and sleep with my guns.

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Originally Posted by Batch

If faced with an unavoidable violent encounter use overwhelming high yield violence and get out.

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Beautifully said.

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Originally Posted by 1stimestar

I work in Fairbanks. I drive into Fairbanks every day though I live closer to a little community called Ester. That business seems to be out of business. Their page is gone at least and I never heard of one of those types of businesses in that area. But really, the only reason I was taking it was because he offered it to free for anyone who attended Take Back the Night and at the time, I had an escalating perpetrator who is also a law enforcement officer from out of state. He was pretty intense. But mostly, I just stay aware and carry and sleep with my guns.

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Sorry to hear to about your situation but it sounds as if the guy is no longer around?

I believe everyone should attend a solid self-defense course, regardless of age, gender, athletic ability, etc. I have been involved in martial arts and self-defense for 24 years and you would be surprised how many young athletic males (often martial artists) that I have seen fail realistic scenario training. Often times this is due to a lack of proper mind-set more so than anything else. It should be included in every elementary school in the country and the reality is we would have fewer victims of crime, assault, and bullying.

Awareness is a good thing. It's the foundation (along with mind-set) to effective personal security. Guns are obviously a good thing as well. The key though is to be prepared if the awareness fails or if a situation presents itself where the gun doesn't work, isn't available, or has somehow been taken away. This is where empty hands and the use of improvised weapons become vitally important. Whether we have a weapon on our person or not, we are never unarmed as long as we have the mind-set and know what to look for and how to use what we find.

Take care,
Steve