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First I would like to say HI! to everybody here, Im kinda new to this site, but found it to be extremely informative and helpful!! I have a question that I have never seen asked, I am wondering if when using a condensation method of getting water if any contaminates and or bacteria are condensed with the water? If not, then couldnt this be another method of purifying water? By the way I am referring to using natural heat and or the sun for the condensing. Thanks in advance!!
Solar stills produce clean, pure water. Salt water, urine --- doesn't matter. The end result will be fresh, clean drinkable water. If you think about it this way - urine and salt water are mostly water. The problem is the "other stuff" in the water. When you use a solar still, you are just affecting the water portion. Water rises - condenses on your still material - runs down into collection vessel/area.
Prophet - Crash is correct.
To answer your question, however, both bacteria and contaminates will be in the water along with viruses. Anything airborne that can settle on the plant will have the opportunity to be in the water. Air currents inside the distillation material caused by solar heating and movement of the plant will dislodge those items and will be in the water. So you are much better off distilling water in the bush than in a city, for example, because of the pollution.
What won't be in there are the very organism that you are trying to avoid such as giardia. So, as crash said, the water will be safe to drink.
Now this is good information to have.
Don
You can not distill bacon from plants, Don.
All good info except I was taught by the Army you cannot purify urine, it's human waste and boiling it will not work as there will still be waste in it, that being said it will awlways have a little wang in the flavor:D
I have no idea why you couldn't purify it. It's no different than swamp water or pond water. They certainly do it on the space lab. They even reclaim moisture from breath in the space lab.
Shipwrecked or people otherwise adrift at sea for long periods often resort to drinking their urine when no rainwater is available, seawater being unsuitable. People stranded in deserts often also drank urine to prevent life-threatening dehydration from setting in. However, this desperate measure achieves little to delay death from thirst as urine dehydrates one in the same manner saltwater does.
Urine is liquid waste product of the body secreted by the kidneys by a process of filtration from blood and excreted through the urethra. This waste is eventually expelled from the body in a process known as urination.
Urine is the byproduct or fluid secreted by the kidneys, transported by the ureters to the urinary bladder where it is stored until it is voided through the urethra. It is a transparent solution that is clear to amber in color, and is usually a light yellow color. Urine is made up of a watery solution of metabolic wastes (such as urea), dissolved salts and organic materials. Fluid and materials being filtered by the kidneys, destined to become urine, come from the blood or interstitial fluid. The composition of urine is adjusted in the process of reabsorption when essential molecules needed by the body, such as glucose, are reabsorbed back into the blood stream via carrier molecules. The remaining fluid contains high concentrations of urea and other excess or potentially toxic substances that will be released from the body via urination. Urine flows through these structures: the kidney, ureter, bladder, and finally the urethra. Urine is produced by a process of filtration, reabsorption, and tubular secretion. Boiling or filtering will not remove the impurities in urine.
As for using a solar still to clean up urine the Ranger School says this:
"In the case of urine, the distilled water vapor would have to be filtered and possibly distilled a second or third time. This method of distilling or purifying urine into potable water would be labor intensive, however, and the results may be less than satisfactory."
That and its pretty gross. They do not drink urine on the space lab, they anlyze it to see the astronauts health and effects of sapce.
Taught to me by the U.S. Army Ranger School at Elgin Air Force Base Florida.
We aren't talking about drinking urine. We're talking about distilling it. That would leave behind the salts and other impurities. The only thing that would be condensed is water vapor. And yes, they do recycle urine in the space lab along with shower water and water vapor in the air. Since atronuts spend extended time in the lab, they have to reuse the water. It's too expensive to send fresh water into space to resupply the lab.
Distilling urine: http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-dis...able-water.htm
Distilled urine on space lab:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast02nov_1.htm
I'm not saying the army didn't teach it that way. I just think it would be perfectly safe to do and use.
Consensing water is a very useful mean of obtaining fresh water. While in high school, I remember a teacher of mine telling us what some companies did with old vehichle tires. The would send them to 3rd world contries and they would make piles of tires, 4-5 tires high. They would then fill the insides with contaminated water and but a bucket (or some type of conatiner) in the middle of the pile. Place a piece of clear plastic on top of the tires with a rock in the middle to make like an upside-down cone, and put it out in the sun. The clean/fresh condensation would catch on the plastic and run down to the tip of the cone and be caught in the bucket.
that's what a solar still is, though not of course always made from tires.
Beo - Urine is about 97% water. The problem if you drink it is the 3% - it can make you sick or kill you. When you use a solar still, only the water condenses on the still material, leaving a sediment at the bottom. Same with a salt water still - water rises - salt stays at bottom as a sediment.
Don't drink Urine straight. Over ice in a shot glass with schweppes bitter lemon is the way to go...:D Seriously now, if you are trying to get water from a plant.. (plastic bag over a branch) don't get it from a poisonous plant (poison hemlock for instance) as the plants poison migrates with the water. However, if the water is filtered through the soil.. as in a standard solar still over a hole in the ground.. it is thus filtered. It is written that you can even distill urine in this manner by pouring or otherwise placing it around the solar still and letting it soak into the ground first as then it is collected without the impurities by the solar still. Think of how a natural spring works, the water is filtered through the ground before emptying into the aquifer that it comes from.
I would be hard pressed to use a ground solar still because of the amount of work involved and the meager return on the investment. However....if that were my ONLY option then I would probably try it. I would use the bag over leaves method.
As I said: distilling urine into potable water would be labor intensive, however, and the results may be less than satisfactory" Is what we were taught, there are other ways of making water, not saying it woulldn't work I'm saying it's more work than worth the effort.
I cannot see that any impurities or potential harmful substances would be left in urine, after distillation.
Urea would be removed during any distillation
Salts and other electrolytes are also removed
Bilirubin is also removed and even if it weren't, I believe the digestive process would break down the bilirubin, preventing dangerous accumulation.
I'd be worried about drinking exclusively distilled water, without any electrolytes, for too long. Free Water or distilled water can lead to dilution of important electrolytes such as potassium and salt.
As for the effort to produce drinkable water from urine, I cannot say as I haven't tried it. I have had some success with the bag/leaf/branch method and am able to get a small cup over a day of collection.
AD - Not to dispute your word..I was under the same impression on the distilled water but I've read a number of write ups that claim it's perfectly safe to drink it long term AS LONG AS your food diet is healthy and varied. Food may be the caveat.
I entirely agree! My understanding is that the majority of electrolytes come from a decent diet including a variety of meats and veg. A standard diet, in civilization, contains enough requirements for the average person.
This reminds me of some stories/case reports of ultra-distance runners and marathon runners who have had problems due to "dilutional hyponatremia". They have lost so much fluid due to sweating and are only replacing with standard water, no electrolytes. This massive amount of water they are taking in, over several hours, leads to dilution of their e-lytes and cardiac arrythmias. VERY RARE!
I think it is cool to start thinking of these long hikes, multi-day sojurns and survival scenarios as athletic events, so to speak. Very taxing on the body and requires some knowledge that the average hiker may not have. The skills of the participants allow them to be put in scenarios that are rare and not commonly encountered.
I have done some longer runs and have frequently used products such as thermo-tabs or emergen-c lyte powder or even cytomax for replenishment. These are unique instances, though. I feel that a balanced diet is all that should be required for normal maintence of electrolytes and a possibility of dilution with free water/distilled is a very, very low risk. :)
Cool thread!!
One of the reasons I like Cody Lundin's 98.6 is the fact he spends a lot of time on how the body reacts to survival situations. Understanding what your body will do is one step in reducing panic when it actually does it. It's one thing to carry matches in the winter. It's another to know that you might not have the dexterity to light that match if you are very cold.
You bet. Good thread. I appreciate your input!!
Thanks again for all the replies and info!! The main reason that for my question is that when I am "out and around" I always keep tabs on my surroundings as far as what is available to me if I am stuck here, and have noticed that the places that I go usually have water near by, but it is usually from a source with a lot of wildlife around or a nasty seep pond. I feel much better now knowing that those sources can be turned into safe drinking water.
Piece of cake - Forget the condensation route if you have access to that much water. Unless the water is contaminated with heavy metals or other serious pollution, purifying it is a snap.
First, let me say that you can't judge a book by it's cover. You need to treat all water the same regardless of what it looks like. Your principle concern is treating the water to avoid illness and crystal clear water can still contain "nasties" like Giardia and a host of other organisms including bacteria and viruses. So make certain all water is treated before you drink it. If the water is really nasty then you might want to strain it through your bandanna or other cloth to remove the "floaties" before treating it.
A few fairly quick and easy methods are boiling, filtering and chemical disinfecting.
Boiling -
Universally accepted as the safest way to purify water. The conventional wisdom has been to boil the water vigorously for 1 minute and allow it to cool. At altitudes greater than 6,562 feet (>2,000 m), boil water for 3 minutes or use chemical disinfection after water has been boiled for 1 minute. However, another member on here, Robert Rogers, from a very popular survival site, says just bringing the water to a boil will kill the nasties.
Filtering -
There are many commercial filters on the market. All do a reasonably good job and you can choose from a number of different sizes depending on how much weight and room you want to take up. However, even filtered water should be treated chemically to remove all bacteria and viruses that can pass through the filter. Some portable water filters designed to remove parasites have an "absolute” pore size of 0.1 to 1-micrometer and may also remove most diarrhea-causing bacteria. Viruses are smaller than 0.1 micron and will NOT be removed by filters with a pore size of 0.1 or larger. To kill viruses that may pass through these filters, iodine can be added to the filtered water before you drink it. Some of the larger companies, MSR for one, also include a chlorine based disinfectant to treat filtered water.
Chemical Treatment -
There are a number of ways to safely treat water by chemically disinfecting it. Chemical disinfection with iodine, for example, (e.g., Globaline, Potable-Aqua, or Coghlan’s, found in pharmacies and sporting goods stores) is another method for making water safer to drink. Cryptosporidium (a parasite that can cause diarrhea) and other coccidian parasites (e.g., Cyclospora, Toxoplasma) might not be killed by this method.
Make certain you know the recommended dosage for the amount of water you are treating. Make certain you know the recommended waiting time for the clarity and temperature of the water you are treating.
Trying to use a solar still is quite a bit of work with a small return and it takes a long time to manufacture the water. One of the methods above will produce a lot of water in a short amount of time with far less expended energy.
Don't forget that a dry creek bed might be dug down to the water level beneath too..Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet5150
Rick,
I assumed currently the US used high-tech semi-permeable membranes for purifying urine on US space vehicles. These membranse let h2o molecules through but nothing else. I knew a guy who sold these to industry. He showed me how you can take raw sewage, and the membrane only lets pure water through.
Neat stuff.
Yea. It's not rocket science. Well, yea, Come to think of it I guess it is.
That's the way I understand it. The contaminates are shipped back with the rest of the garbage and burn up in the atmosphere on reentry.
A way to do it on earth:
I've been to the Tampa MOSI several times. It's just a really cool place. They had a couple of tanks next to the parking lot, maybe eight foot in diameter that were loaded with water plants. They piped the gray water out of the building through those tanks and the plants absorbed the "crud" out of the water. That was another pretty cool way to make clean water. It wasn't drinkable at the end but it could be released into the wild without damaging the eco systems.
Ive do that here Rick, all grey water from showers and sinks goes to watering plants & bushes. I try to water the grass with gray water just before a rain as sometimes it will smell a bit. Greenest grass around. (with the odd macaroni noodle kicking around)
All black goes to septic then onto a field.
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