Polar Bear weekend!

Hey y'all! Long time no see! I don't get much time to myself lately...with all the changes and having to do so much for myself...my life has become a little crazy. :wacko: LOL!

I'm training for the Tough Mudder that's going to be held in the Pocono's at the end of April...so I have to find the easiest ways to do things. My son's boy scout troop is doing their Polar Bear weekend next month, and I need to start putting together the lightest pack I can for him...that will include his cold weather bag and bed roll. I won't have to worry about food...because they will sled that in, but I need to send pretty much everything else. Being out of the loop for so long...can y'all let me know if there is anything new out there, (or just a really good standby) that I can look into getting for him, (if I don't already have it) so as to make his weekend as comfortable and enjoyable as possible?

Missed you all!! Very cool to be able to read up on our new members and see what's been going on with our old. I have a long weekend so I hope to be able to chat a bit.

So nice to see you back!!!
How have you been, how's life? Is it getting any easier?

Somehow I bet you have probably checked things out pretty good for your sons trip. I mean that as in being a good mom who looks out for her son. Hope things are beginning to smooth out for you. Just make sure he has a good warm bag and maybe rge flannel insert. They really do help.

Good to see you back T. Since his food is covered, just make sure he has stuff to keep him warm (and dry). Are the tents packed in or does he need to carry his own?

Can you give us some idea of what gear he has? Does he hace a pack?

I've had to get him a larger adult day pack because he's really very small and any other pack is just too hard for him to haul. His bed roll is on the base on the outside, and the bag is at the bottom inside. I like the idea of the flannel insert! I think I'll make that though, because as I look around, they are bit more expensive than I wanted to spend.
Heavy socks are covered but I have to look into good gloves for kids now. He has to bring his "meal kit" so we're just putting in that canteen insert and heat stand that I got a bit ago, and the spork that Winnie sent. ;) I've never done a boy scout pack...so I'm starting to think my best bet is hand heaters for those really cold times...and just lots of clothing. It seems so basic...

The tents are split between the two campers in them, so that will be a LITTLE weight but not a lot.

Hi, B! Easy? I don't know about that...But I've found my groove. Love my job, starting the refinance of the house so I may try and keep it, got a new car (new to me), and the Tough Mudder will mark the month that this hellish year started. I find it a fitting end to it all and a way to prove to MYSELF that I can still kick butt. LOL!! I'll be okay...It's just a long trip, ya know?

The Little Hootties warmers come in a variety of sizes, they are light weight and they last a long time. You can get them just about anywhere.

http://www.littlehottieswarmers.com/

You might look for a couple of pairs of Smart Wool socks. There are lot's of similar brand names. I loves me Smart Wools. Fleece jacket to wear alone or under a heavier coat will give him some options depending on temps.

Those warmers are the best invention of the decade.

I have also found that snowmobile gloves are the warmist on the market for the price.

Footwear a size too big with extra wool socks you probably already know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

The Little Hootties warmers come in a variety of sizes, they are light weight and they last a long time. You can get them just about anywhere.

http://www.littlehottieswarmers.com/

You might look for a couple of pairs of Smart Wool socks. There are lot's of similar brand names. I loves me Smart Wools. Fleece jacket to wear alone or under a heavier coat will give him some options depending on temps.

---

Where's 2Dumb when you need him for a crass bit of humor?

Just my subject of expertise. This last weekend I took my troop on their initiatory winter camp. We did a car camp to show how much insulation they need. Next month we sled in (if we ever get enough snow, I am considering using carts now :) ). As a scoutmaster, I have battled this subject for a few years now. I will give you my own opinions based on my own observations and experience. That doesn't mean I am right, but it will give you something to think about. Following is a copy paste from handouts that I have written in the past and given out to my scouts:

Once a boy joins Boy Scouts, there are certain things he needs to have. All of these items help him function through all the campouts and activities that all Boy Scouts do. At the same time, many boys have a hard time acquiring the necessary items due to cost. It quickly becomes expensive to outfit a boy, and maybe two, on a family budget, especially when the boy is growing so fast. It is also hard considering how hard boy are on equipment, and their propensity to lose things. Another thing to consider is the type of camping that your boy does. Believe it or not, there are different types of camping. They generally fall within two major categories: car camping and backpacking. Car camping is camping within close proximity of any vehicle, ie about a quarter of a mile. Backpacking is when you have to carry your stuff more than that to set up camp, and you don’t plan to make a few trips to get all your gear to camp. Car camping is much easier. It doesn’t require specialized gear, and you can bring more, just in case. However, backpacking is more satisfying for a young man trying to learn how to do it himself. It also is a better teacher on camping skills. With this is mind, we plan to do a few campouts a year were we have to carry our stuff more than a few miles to set up camp. Because of this, the gear that we carry must be light weight. 12 year old boys can only carry so much. With these things in mind, here is a list discussing each item, and giving recommendations for the cost conscience, and wealthy in mind.

Sleeping system
1. Sleeping bag—Believe it or not, this can be the most difficult item to get. Sleeping bags are rated by temperature and weight. The temperature is the coldest an average person can sleep in it, and be comfortable. The problem is that the ratings are almost worthless, unless you pay some money for a known, quality brand (like Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, Mountain Hardwear, North Face, etc). Because of this, it is usually good to go colder on cheaper brands (like Slumberjack or Coleman). Another problem with temperature is that the nighttime lows change from winter to summer. If you can only get one bag, go for one that is good to 30°F. This means that if you buy an expensive bag, then buy one rated to 30°F. If you buy a cheaper one (any at Walmart, CAL ranch, Big 5, etc.), then buy one rated to 0°F. Also try to stay close to 3 lbs. and stay away from cotton. Down bags are great, buy require more careful care. 12 year olds generally abuse their stuff, so this may be a bad idea.
Here is what I say specifically for a winter sleeping bag: Hopefully it will be cold at night. I would plan for the temps to go down to 0°F. A sleeping bag that is rated to that would be perfect. The problem is that if you spent less than $200 on the sleeping bag, what ever rating it has is almost certainly wrong. If you spent less than $50 on the bag, expect the rating to be off by about 30 degrees. Not all is lost, however, if your bag isn’t warm at 0°F. There are things you can do to increase the temperature rating of your sleeping bag. A simple thing is to combine 2 sleeping bags. This especially works with boys because they are small and give each bag room to loft fully. Another way is to add an internal blanket. You can also wear insulating clothing like polar fleece. Also, combing extra clothing with a blanket or 2nd bag works as well.
I have noticed that a lot of my scouts buy the 0 degree Coleman Xtreme bag from Walmart. It is probably because it only costs $50. It is a little on the heavy side, but I think it is a good option. I wouldn't buy any other bag from Walmart.


2. Sleeping mat—This is a vital piece of a sleeping system. When you lay down on a cold hard surface, the ground sucks the heat from you through conduction. A sleeping bag alone can’t help here. When you lay on a sleeping bag, all the insulation is compressed, rendering the insulation worthless. By using a closed cell foam mattress, which doesn’t compress much, the sleeper will have a much easier time staying warm. There are two different types of sleeping mats that work. A closed cell foam mattress is the cheapest and lightest, but the most bulky. It is also the most robust. You can buy a blue mattress at Walmart for less than $10. Another option is an insulated air mattress. These pack smaller, but are heavier, cost much more ($70-$200), and can easily be punctured by a careless 12 year-old. They are more comfortable, however, and I use them because I am old. Young 12 year old boys can comfortably sleep on a cheap blue foam pad. Do NOT get a cheap inflatable mattress. They suck the heat out of you as well, through convective currents in the mattress. In the winter, two pads are best.

Clothing
There are two main things to remember when picking out clothing for your scout. The clothing needs to dry quickly, and insulate when wet. Cotton fails both of these things. Try to stay away from cotton. You can pretty much buy all your clothes at a thrift store, if you look hard enough.

1. Insulating Jacket—there are really three options. A cheap and somewhat heavier synthetic fleece, a slightly heavier wool sweater, a light synthetically insulated jacket, or a down insulated jacket. I recommend the fleece. Go to a thrift store and buy a few that fit your son for $5 each. Remember: NO cotton sweatshirt.

2. Wind Shirt—this is a very light jacket that is worn over the insulation. Its sole purpose is to block the wind. It also needs to breathe very well. Go to a thrift store and buy a cheap nylon wind breaker, the lightest you can find. Cut out the lining if it has one.

3. Shirts—you want a long sleeve shirt that is light and dries fast. You also want it to block the sun. The expensive option is a nylon camping shirt from REI or Cabelas. I have seen some around $50. Sometimes you can find them on sale for $15. Another option is a dress shirt from a thrift store, or your own collection.

4. Pants—again, you want long pants that are light and dry fast. Nylon or polyester warm-up pants or similar are ideal as they dry quicker than cotton. Pants should fit comfortably under pack's waist-band, so warm up pants are better than pants with belt loops. The very best options are pants with zip-off legs that double as shorts. Remember: NO jeans.

5. Long underwear—Buy either synthetic (polyester or polypropylene) or natural (wool). Don’t buy cotton. The polypro will be the cheapest, and the wool the most expensive. I think polyester is the best option for a scout. The boy only needs one top and one bottom. Just remember to wash it correctly after use; both the wool and polypro can’t take any heat.

6. Hat- The minimum here should be a ski hat. Something that covers the ears and back of the neck.

7. Gloves- Leather gloves are great for working around a fire and with fire wood. But he also needs another pair that is waterproof and insulating. Insulated ski mits are great.

8. Rain wear—again, keep it light. A poncho is a great option. But, spend a little and get one made from ripstop nylon, not PVC. Rain pants are also good. Another option is rain chaps. Military ponchos at surplus stores are cheap ways to get a good poncho (less than $20).

9. Boots/shoes- In the winter he needs insulating and waterproof boots. In the summer, trail runners are perfect.


Kitchen
1. Pot—A small pot is all that is needed. Don’t get anything larger than a liter. 700mL is a good size as well. The best ones are made out of titanium and cost $30+. But a simple aluminum one will do. Normally it is hard to find a decent pot, unless you know what you are looking for. Some Walmarts sell an Imusa brand pot for $2 that is perfect. There is also a grease pot that Kmart sells that is real cheap. Another alternative is a simple steel can the proper size will do. You can get a mess kit, but it isn’t necessary. It will come in handy when we car camp (and he has to cook his own food that he brings), or at scout camp (maybe), but we won’t use it backpacking. The small pot in the mess kit is too small, but the plastic measuring cup is a good thing to have.

2. Spoon/Spork/Foon—This one is pretty easy. Just try to keep it light and simple. Also, try not to get something that will break right away. Just steal one from the kitchen, or spend $.75 at a thrift store. A stainless one is perfect.

3. Bowl—This is a small plastic bowl that is very light. For cheap, buy a microwave one serving Cambells soup in a plastic bowl. Eat the soup and clean out the bowl. It is the perfect size and you get a meal with it.

4. Knife—a folding knife is a must. Most Boy Scout camps don’t allow fixed blade knives. I recommend a Swiss Army Knife (SAK), preferably the Victornox brand. Look for a knife with a good saw, straight blade, can opener, and scissors. Don’t buy a knife with a bunch of useless stuff on it that adds to the cost, and never gets used. A Mora is a great fixed blade knife for a scout (I recommend the 511), but check with the troop leadership to see if they will allow it.

Continuing:


Backpack
It is very important that a scout have his own backpack. He can use it not only for backpacking, but also for any camp, and can practice taking less “things”. The problem is trying to find a lightweight one that fits. And since 12 year olds grow so fast, fitting is hard. Most backpacks are either internal or external framed. They should have a comfortable hip belt that transfers the weight of the pack to the hips and off the shoulder. Look for internal capacities between 3500ci and 4000ci. Try to stay under 4000ci. A pack that is too large will only get filled with unnecessary “things”. Also, DON’T give your 12-13 year old a man’s pack. He is TOO small. The pack needs to fit. When he is 16, he can have a man’s pack. Also, try to stay as close to 3lbs or under. 4lbs is TOO heavy. Remember that they are 12-13 year old boy scouts, not Army Rangers.

I highly recommend an external frame pack for a small scout. There are three models that I think are great. The Jansport Scout, the Kelty Jr Tioga (or their current equivalent), or the Outdoor Products Dragonfly. Look at Campmor to purchase one of these. All of these will fit my 9 year old son, and fit my larger 13 year old scouts. I also bought a MOLLE hip belt ($10) that I can attach to the frame for when I need the pack to fit older scouts and/or adults. With an internal frame pack, first you have to buy one that fits, and then have a sleeping bag that fits inside.

Whistle-- This is an item that is used in an emergency. It is great for when they get lost. Look for a pealess model. The pea inside can freeze, and render it useless.


I hope this helps a little.

FM - That's a really good post. A lot of parents are generally clueless when it comes to gear so your info is particularly useful if they heed it! A little rep your way.

Unfortunately, I can't buy the equipment for them. This last weekend, one of the scouts showed up with a fleece blanket for a sleeping bag. This is after I told them all to bring either two bags, or a blanket and a warm bag. I guess it was good that I had brought an extra bag and let him borrow it.

The backpacks are probably the most frustrating item. Most stores only carry internal frame jobs. These packs are usually only around $50. The problem occurs when they also buy a big huge sleeping bag. Then when they show up to go backpacking, the sleeping bag fills the entire pack. All their other stuff is somehow strapped to the outside (usually in Walmart sacks) and to top it off, the suspension doesn't fit. I can usually stuff everything inside the pack (not an easy feat). But there is no fix for the suspension being too big, even with adjustment. Last year, one of the scouts showed up with his grandfathers external frame. He is a little on the big waisted side. I put my new MOLLE waist belt on it, and it fit him perfect. His big ol' sleeping bag also strapped effortlessly onto the outside bottom. I also had a small scout that needed to borrow a pack. I lent him my kelty jr tioga. It fit him like a glove, and his big sleeping bag also strapped effortlessly onto the outer frame. That convinced me that scouts need external frames. I recently purchased 2 OP Dragonflies. The frame is compatible with MOLLE suspension. So, I bought 2 MOLLE belts as well. The original suspension is for small kids. I was able to fit my 9 year old son perfectly in the frame. It will easily fit him up til he is at least 13. With the MOLLE belts, I can use the same packs on adults, or boys with larger waists. Total cost for BOTH packs and BOTH MOLLE belts was $100. I plan to make a video to show how awesome I think this pack is. Don't get me wrong, I like internal packs. BUT, if you aren't going to spend the money on a nice sleeping bag that compresses to fit inside of your pack, and you aren't going to spend the money on a pack that fits you correctly, then an external is better. And, for a scout that is constantly growing and is hard on equipment, you can't go wrong with an external frame.

I bought an old external frame at a swap meet for $10 when I first got to Alaska. It's been many miles. A few years ago I thought I would move up and bought a very expensive internal frame. I used it once and went back to my old external frame. That internal frame is just too frustrating and I dare say, a piece of crap.

Internals are frustrating to set up but once they are dialed in they are very good. It's easiest to have two people to set it up. But, I'm assuming you know that.

Rick, what do you mean by set it up?
The reason I'm asking is that I've always done it by myself, unaware that there are easier ways.
(I could certainly get Mr. B to pitch)

Every pack. internal or external, needs to be adjusted to your body shape. All packs have an adjustment range that they will cover. Some greater than others. External frames generally have a very large range. But, setting up a pack means adjusting the suspension so that your body is carrying it correctly.

Thanks for clarifying FM. That's the first thing I did after I had everything in, the way I liked.
Having help with adjustments once the pack's on, does make it less frustrating.

Thank you all for such great feedback!!! I knew I could count on you all!

I hit a bit of an emotional set back this past week so I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

B - I just saw your question. Sorry. With one person it's all trial and error. That can take a while and be frustrating especially when you are almost there, make that final adjustment only to try the pack on and find you went too far. Grrrr.

With two people you just put on the pack and let the second person make all the adjustments they can reach while it's on you. Easy peasy.

Hang in there T.

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