Does this look infected to you?

A little back-story:
On friday I fleshed a deer hide, then soaked it in lye.
On saturday I scraped off the hair and grain. My draw-knife is a dull tool. It flipped up while I was doing the neck area and nicked my thumb. I was wearing gloves and didn't even bleed, just barely broke the skin..
On sunday I rinsed and scraped it again.
Monday I wrung it, and washed it out really good.
Tuesday I changed the water and went to get a new backpack. I added distilled white vinegar to the rinse to try something new suggested in my book. that day my thumb was a little tender and
Wednesday when I woke up, my thumb was very swolen, sore, and I couldn't bend it.
I washed it with peroxide and alcohol, applied neosporin and a band-aid. wrapped it up good with waterproof tape. I needed to brain the hide, for softening, so I got all that jazz ready, and got the hide soaking.
After a little while the swellin had gone down just a little, but blood blisters were forming.
I busted one of the blisters, got the ooze out, and soaked it in sea-salt. After that soak, it swole up really big!

So I cleaned it again, applied neosoprin and a new bandage. Then it occurred to me.. My grandma and uncle are both allergic to Neosporin's sulfates, well, really anything with sulfur in it. I wonder if I'm allergic to it too? I used to use it all the time to treat cuts, and never had a reaction before.

So what do you think? Infection or allergic reaction?

I have never had a reaction to vinegar either. I've used it for all sorts of things, especially to neutralize "stink" on my hands. to my knowledge, I have never had a reaction to it either before, BUT, and it's a big BUT.. I've never added vinegar to a hide bath before either. The hide had two bullet holes in it. After about 16 hours in the rinse, now the hide has about 12 holes in it.. like the vinegar digested it! Naturally, I just stuck my hand in the soak to stir and make sure the hide was coated and not floating (they only float with the hair on, which is precisely why I thought deer hair, being hollow, would make good fishing flies).
I think something in the vinegar caused the reaction, since it digested the hide. I'm disappointed that a VERY pristine hide was ruined, but at this point, I'm more worried about losing my thumb. anyhow, here's what it looks like this morning.

I would say if it oozing pus its infected,, I would keep washing it with peroxide and keep it uncovered when you are not working, also, triple antibiotic salve works very well .

Side Note, I had a similar infection on my knuckle once from a guys tooth,, it wouldn't heal, i ground up an antibiotic pill into a paste and rubbed it into the sore,, It healed right away,


ps, at least your pics say "attached thumbnails" lol

I think you may have had a reaction to the vinegar/peroxide mix,which creates an acid ????

http://www.michaelandjudystouffer.co...es/vinegar.htm

read the last paragraph,if you still had a small amount of the vinegar in the wound when you treated it with peroxide,maybe it reacted?

Your reaction started BEFORE you used the peroxide though?? Maybe lye/vinegar reaction,which could cause burns?

Still possible that it could be an allergic reaction though,you need to seek medical attention for it either way.


http://www.lymphnotes.com/article.php/id/473/

neosprin allergy includes blisters that turn into blood blisters!

Well, yeah. I know you don't want to hear it but get your butt to the doctor! That's infected and it can lead to septicemia, which can be deadly. It can also be a first stage of necrotizing fasciitis. Those blood blisters you described are symptomatic of it.

http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume5/i...atures/hu.html

I work with concrete and we use vinegar to neutralize the lye on our skin.

Absolutely what Rick said! That is definitely an infected thumb and needs proper treatment.

Ok. I went to the doctor. My wife insisted. Out of the 4 possibilites, he was uncertain. He prescribed 2 types of antibiotics, and a different salve than neosporin.
Bacteria, vinegar, neosporin, or sea-salt...
My guess is bacteria, and possibly the septicerosisitis stuff, or maybe a mutated staph that the doctor mentioned. He said that if I'm not getting better my monday, I should return to lance it and get a culture on it. I'll keep monitoring it. I will spend some time looking over the links you guys posted. I've never had anything like this, so it's new to me.
I wound up getting a tetanus shot too (free), and since the hepB vaccine was free I got it too.
It's a little scary to think of losing my thumb to pure stupidity.. I guess that's what happens when you get too comfortable doing things.. Like Cody Lundin said, " be a dumba**, experience dumba** consequences".

Lesson learned!
The doctor and the pharmacy both gave me discounts, so I got all this for just barely over $100. I expected to be broke after this trip, but I still have a few bucks left! Haven't been to the doctor in a long time now. Was a little nervous. hopefully It'll be cured and I'm staying away from all 4 of those items above for a while.

Is there a skin test I can use to see if I'm allergic to neosporin, as you would with a plant?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

Ok. I went to the doctor. My wife insisted. Out of the 4 possibilites, he was uncertain. He prescribed 2 types of antibiotics, and a different salve than neosporin.
Bacteria, vinegar, neosporin, or sea-salt...
My guess is bacteria, and possibly the septicerosisitis stuff, or maybe a mutated staph that the doctor mentioned. He said that if I'm not getting better my monday, I should return to lance it and get a culture on it. I'll keep monitoring it. I will spend some time looking over the links you guys posted. I've never had anything like this, so it's new to me.
I wound up getting a tetanus shot too (free), and since the hepB vaccine was free I got it too.
It's a little scary to think of losing my thumb to pure stupidity.. I guess that's what happens when you get too comfortable doing things.. Like Cody Lundin said, " be a dumba**, experience dumba** consequences".

Lesson learned!
The doctor and the pharmacy both gave me discounts, so I got all this for just barely over $100. I expected to be broke after this trip, but I still have a few bucks left! Haven't been to the doctor in a long time now. Was a little nervous. hopefully It'll be cured and I'm staying away from all 4 of those items above for a while.

Is there a skin test I can use to see if I'm allergic to neosporin, as you would with a plant?

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Try applying a little to the inside of your elbow,to see if you get a reaction in that spot.

YCC - I don't think you were being stupid at all. Bacteria (and lot's of other stuff) live all over us. They are in the soil and on everything we touch (we dont' know anything about survival like those bugs do!). Since the skin is our first line of defense all it takes is a slight nick and they have a foot hold in the door. It has happened to all of us lot's of times. The only difference is which bug and whether our defense can shut it down before it grows. And that is by pure chance. When the perfect storm comes together...infection!

Cudos to you for caring about yourself and your family enough to do to the doc, to get your tetanus (good for 10 years so write the date down!) and your hepB.

I'm glad you went to the doc YCC. That's what I woulda done. Red and swollen is not a good sign in any book, especially if it comes from a minor cut.

Infection, blood poisoning and the like is one thing I don't fool around with.

If you're on antibiotics take them as scheduled and to completion otherwise the next time this happens it could be worse or it may not cure the problem at all.

Dip that bad boy in bleach, then rinse with peroxide and wrap with alchol soaked gauze for first day. Second day cover in Neosporean and wrap with gauze and TAHHHHDAHHHH!!!! That crap will hurt but get better real quick!!!
LOL GO SEE A DOCTOR IF IT HURTS REAL BAD YCC!!!!

Ok update, I see ya went good job, hope all is ok.
Beo,

Late to the party, but glad you went to see the doc.

Thanks guys. Doing the neosporin test on elbow right now. Will touch back in a few hours with results.
Will be pretty hard to swing a hammer without a thumb. I'm glad I went to the doc too. Makes me feel better that it could have been simply shaking hands in the MP Surplus store on Tuesday, or the job I checked on Monday..
If I pass the neosporin test, I'll try the vinegar tomorrow, and the salt on Saturday. If neither of those gives a reaction, It will have to be bacterial.

My bet is on bacterial. When you nicked your thumb they found no one at home and tried to move in. That's why we have limited camping in national parks. You need to put up a sign or something.

Keep it clean, take all the medicine they gave you and it will be fine. Lots of people only take their meds until it looks or feels better and stop. They gave you 10 days (I'm guessing) for a reason. One other bid of advice, that stuff kills bacteria and doesnt know the difference between good and bad. Eat yogurt or something like that to help your body replace the good bacteria it needs.

I cut myself on my thumb in the exact same place last week. It is healling very slow. Seams we use are thumbs alot. I have a mild infection too. I think I am good though. Now here is what got my attention...I did it with a gerber folding saw building a practice shelter with my daughter...for what it is worth the gerber was far more efficient than my 19" Wetterlings...but could have easily been a survival situation if my little girl didn't have her first aid kit on the ready!

I am about to get into trouble, but please do not be offended. I am meerly trying to help here.

DO NOT use hydrogen peroxide or bleach to clean an infected wound. The first will attack the healing tissue and the dead tissue and the second one is toxic.

Next, try and stay away from the ointments. I have seen wounds heal over too quickly before infection is fought off and be trapped under the skin. My wife almost lost a finger for that reason. She would not listen to me. Please do not make the same mistake.

This is one of the most important things I could ever pass on to anyone. For deep puncture wounds, deep and large cuts, soak in a hot Epsom Salts/water solution. This will also save you a lot of money at the doctors office. My family has been using this for 4 generations (my children being the forth). It works and works good. Fish finger, ingrown toe nails that are infected, cat scratch infections and festering wood slivers. This has been the cure in our home.

I have seen some of the worst infected wounds calmed right down with in a couple days. Now that is not to take the place of going to the doctor if you are about to die.

After you make a paste with the epson salts, read the rest of the package and see what else this stuff can do, you will be glad that you have a box as it is very good.

+1 on the yogurt!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CS

Seams we use are thumbs alot.

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Yeah. I was going to practice not using my thumbs this week as a survival test. I was going to go into the woods with just a knife and do it but darn the luck. Have you ever tried to use a knife and not use your thumbs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KYRat

Now that is not to take the place of going to the doctor if you are about to die.

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I am about to get into trouble, but please do not be offended. I am meerly trying to help here. Ya think!?

I did read some time back that the purpose of the appendix is to store gut bacteria so that when you have the proverbial purge disease...sort of a scoot and shoot if you will...there will be a seed of good bacteria to replenish the gut when the fun is over. Now you know.

You are a man of much knowledge Rick.
I don't normally get infections like this from such a small nick, especially one that was protected and already scabbed over, and certainly not 2 days later. My wife eats yogurt a couple times a month, I'll eat some as soon as I'm off the antibiotic regiment. Good to know the body has a backup too.

After only an afternoon on the meds and the new salve, the swelling has gone down dramatically, one of the two blood blisters is gone, and most of the redness and soreness is also gone. This is a new thing to me, like I said, I rarely ever get an infection and usually I just squeeze the gunk out and it heals, but I'm going to be sure to take all my meds this time.
Apparently there is a new breed of staph infection going around that is VERY dangerous and VERY resilient. I don't know what to search for, so maybe our Minister of Science can turn up some more info on it. It was brought to my attention about a lady over in the next town who has been quarantined due to the infection.

The new salve also contains a sulfur compound, but I have no reaction to it, nor did I have a reaction to the neosporin in my elbow. That was definately not the problem. I will still try the vinegar and the salt as a test over the weekend to eliminate those too.
The antibiotics make my burps taste funny.. one also contains a sulfur compound, and I would think that by now, I would have had a reaction to those also, if it was a sulfur allergy.

I probably won't get into trouble here.. when you are messing around with dead animal parts, take all measures to prevent exposure to the bacteria, and if you DO suspect you have an infection, I recommend visiting the doctor promptly. Bushcraft medicine has it's place, sure, but when we are talking about necrosis and septic-rot, I'm not taking any chances and I suggest you don't either.

perhaps I developed an allergy to neosporin. The new salve is gentamicin sulfate, but perhaps using it over the course of my life has caused an allergy as the article suggests. It's almost back to normal now, but I'm still taking care with it and taking meds.

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Between 20 to 25 percent of those who use it repeatedly develop a skin allergy to it.
The percentage of allergic reactions could be higher among those with lymphedema because they are more frequently exposed to antibiotics.
The first signs of an allergic reaction are blisters that look like poison ivy or poison oak. The major clue to knowing that a problem is present is when the sore that should be healing is getting worse in spite of the diligent applications of Neosporin. The early blisters often develop into blood blisters and open sores.

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I suppose I could have shaken hands with someone who was contaminated.. theres a lot of possibilities. The funny thing, tho, last time I got sick, I was prescribed a medicine that is found in neosporin; bacitracin, perhaps it was one of the other two, but the skin test for BOTH neosporin and vinegar have passed. I have had no reaction to either.

... and I had the first 3 symptoms of the necrotizing fasciitis..

I hate to think I got it from tanning that skin.. I love tanning!.. and it was two days later! All just guesses and only through process of elimination will i ever come close to figuring it out, if I ever do. I'm still leaning toward that staph, I came in contact with a few people while out and about.

You didn't. The bacteria is everywhere in nature. Literally. It lives on your skin, in the soil, on your table top, everywhere. Normally, it isn't a problem. Our skin is the largest organ in the body and does a remarkable job keeping the good stuff inside and the bad stuff outside. But all it takes is a nick in that coat of armor we wear and the door is open. Like I said, sometimes the perfect storm comes together and we get an infection.

The staph you are talking about is two fold.

MRSA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methici...ococcus_aureus

and CA-MRSA (in the same article).

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Your Minister of Science at work (deep bow).

It looks infected. I doubt it is a reaction to anything in the lye solution.

Your doctor is worried about MRSA (methicillin resistant staph aureus).

But since you were skinning an animal when it happened you have to worry about several other more rare infections.

Cutaneous Tularemia is underdiagnosed but readily treatable.

If it ulcerates or turns black it is without a doubt cutaneous anthrax.

Tetracycline/doxycycline is good for all three of these possibilities though the treatment time for anthrax is 60 days.

Theres a couple more viral and fungal infections trappers and hunters are prone to but they are even more rare and probably not worth considering.
ORF, blastomycosis, etc.

It needs to be watched VERY carefully. If you get fevers, chills or enlarged lymph nodes at your elbow or under your arm or it doesn't go away soon you need to see your doctor again right away.

The lymph node at my collarbone is a little swollen, I figured a reaction to the vaccinations I got. Thumb looks almost normal this morning. I'm definately healing, so I'm not gonna freak out about it...yet.

The animal was skinned last deer season and has been frozen till a week ago today. I didn't actually get the infection until 2 days after I was done scraping the hide. There's lots of possibilities. I'm keeping a very close eye on it.

7 days later this is what it looks like. Even a small nick needs attention when messing around with stuff that might not be exactly "sanitary". I'm still not sure exactly what got me, but it certainly killed some of the tissues on my thumb.

Also, I was warned about making sure no lymph nodes were swollen.. the one by my collarbone is still swollen. I've taken all my antibiotics and I'm wondering if I need to go back for a checkup. What do you think? It's not terribly inflammed, but it is a little tender to touch and is visible from a distance.. Not sure if it was a reaction to 2 different antibiotics, 2 different shots, or the infection itself, BUT it didn't start swelling till I got immunization boosters.. Anyhow, just so nobody worries about losing my thumb.. here's updated pics.

Well, the thumb looks better. Can you ring your doctor and ask for advice over the phone about the lymph node? then if he feels it needs to be seen make an appointment. There is obviously a good reason for him to tell you to keep an eye out for swelling, so take his advice.

Once a lymph node gets enlarged it can take a long time to reduce in size even if everything is hunky dory. It's just how they work. You can try warm compresses to help reduce the swelling. Google lymphadenitis and you'll get a ton of links.

Thanks, Rick. I'll do that now.
Not sure that it warrants much concern, as what I did find says it's a natural occurrence with any infection, and I think the thumb was serious enough to cause a lymph node to be "called to duty". I'll do a little more research and call the doc on my lunch break.

I'd agree. That was a nasty looking thumb. You are lucky you went to the doc when you did. It can take weeks or months for a lymph node to go down. If it feels rubbery or gets larger then I'd see the doc again for sure!

The couple articles I read make me think it's not too serious and is natural considering the infection. Usually when I get sick, they swell and feel way worse than this little bump. It's actually less tender today than it was yesterday, so I think I'll let it ride. Not sure where I'd draw the line between a little swollen and "okay it's time to freak out". I don't think it's very serious, as the articles indicate that if it had become an infection of my lymph system, there would be more than one swollen in a few days, and this has been a week now. The doc said a little enlargement is to be expected, but as long as it doesn't hurt to touch, get bigger, etc. it shouldn't be a big deal, but to still keep an eye on it. If it hasn't gotten at least a little better by monday to come see him again. (basically he repeated what you said). Takes a while for them to go back to "at ease" mode. He did agree that it would concur with a serious infection.
Did I tell you about the lady who had to be quarrantined? She's a hairdresser for the man I'm working for. She scraped her shin on the porch steps, and it got an (the same?) infection. Hers got so bad they had to hospitalize her, in quarrantine, and give her meds through IV for 3 weeks. She's back at home this week, but still going to take IV's daily.
I'm glad I went to the doc. Looking at the tissue damage is reassurance enough for me.

Just cut the damn thing off and be done with it. Or better yet, squeeze it and watch the ooze, then soak it in alcohol (wild turkey pref.) drink a little of the turkey and if it does not get any better, who cares because you won't.

Just kidding, about the Turkey, don't waste it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beowulf65

Dip that bad boy in bleach, then rinse with peroxide and wrap with alchol soaked gauze for first day. Second day cover in Neosporean and wrap with gauze and TAHHHHDAHHHH!!!! That crap will hurt but get better real quick!!!
LOL GO SEE A DOCTOR IF IT HURTS REAL BAD YCC!!!!

Ok update, I see ya went good job, hope all is ok.
Beo,

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Growning up on a farm in the 1944-1960 and going barefoot in the summer time, except in the hog lot :pinch:. I would get blisters/bumps between my toes. My grandmother would make me soak my feet in Clorox Bleach, It burnt like Holy Cow! but the bumps/blister would go away in a day or two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beans

Growning up on a farm in the 1944-1960 and going barefoot in the summer time, except in the hog lot :pinch:. I would get blisters/bumps between my toes. My grandmother would make me soak my feet in Clorox Bleach, It burnt like Holy Cow! but the bumps/blister would go away in a day or two.

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Yep,, Best cure for athletes foot.

I hate to keep going on about this, but yesterday it got bad again. All week, I worked with the thumb in increasingly better shape. All weekend long, no problems, wounds healed, swelling went down, lymph node got back to almost normal.
Then yesterday I woke up and the joint was almost locked in place with swelling and soreness. I went back to the doc and he gave me another round of antibiotics. Today another blood blister is forming UNDER the skin on the opposite side of my thumb as the little scratch was.
The Dr. still has not ordered any labwork or cultures.. It's still a mystery as to what is wrong with my thumb, but today it hurts like arthritis in it and it's very swollen again with a red spot that looks like another blood blister coming up. I haven't done anything that I know of over the weekend to stress it.
I'm thinking I need a second opinion, but I need some money for that.. Looking like if it doesn't get better, it's just gonna have to rot off.
Seems like every time I start to get a little ahead, financially, something like this comes up and wipes me out again. Good thing I worked last week or I wouldn't have had the cash to see the doc yesterday.. Now I can either pay the bills or get a second opinion and leave a bill lacking.. No way I can swing a hammer with it feeling the way it has for the last 2 days.
Relapse, even tho I took all my meds.
Something's gotta give...